Aktieselskabet Schouw & Co. (SCHO) Earnings Call Transcript

Welcome to everyone. Thank you for coming. Super good to see so many showing interest for our company, a lot of well-known face and also some new ones among. So a really good been looking forward to this day. I think it's some years since we had our last Capital Market Day. We think it's right time now to have a data presentation like this again. Maybe we could say also, it's really unprecedented times looking at what's happening around the world. In Europe, energy costs are exploding, also have huge impact on how we are running our companies and so on and stock markets up and down and so on. So it's very difficult times, volatile times, but we have tried it before. So I think we also know more or less how to work in an environment like that. We have a few scope people attending. We have Kasper Okkels. Everyone knows Kasper, I think he's somewhere around here. He's there. Then we have the other Kasper. That's Kasper Schmidt. He is doing our ESG, ESG Officer Kasper is there. If there are some nasty questions on ESG and so on, then he will support me and help me. And then we have Morten Risgaard. He is our working in treasury, no questions on net working capital to Morten. He is just here for listening. So I think that's the team. And then, of course, we brought in 2 CEOs. Carlos Diaz, CEO of BioMar, who will present later on and then Bo Lybaek from GPV. So that's the scope team being around here. Just wait 2 minutes. Welcome. Just wanted to jump fast. Yes, as your presentation to the agenda, we have sent it out already, but there will be kind of 4 streams. I will start up. Just giving a very short insight into Schouw & Company. It's not really the main purpose to speak too much about Schouw & Company. It's more to present, I would say, 2 of the jewels in our crown, as really a deep dive into BioMar, where Carlos will come on, we will have some insights from there. And then Bo Lybaek will present the GPV, the new acquisition of Enics. And I think we'll bring in some persons on video from outside also to give some presentation. So most of this day will be centered around BioMar and GPV. Just for those who don't know Schouw that well are just a very fast glance at Schouw & Company. A lot of you have been following us for many years and knows us. But today, we are a global company. We have -- when we have merged with Enics, hopefully in a month's time or something like that. We are having plus 70 factories around the globe. We are expecting revenue before this merger of Enics this year of about DKK 30 billion, 15,000 employees in our company is active with factories in 31 countries, meaning we have full value chain, full production in 31 different countries around the globe. And for the time being, our guidance is DKK 2.2 billion on EBITDA, latest update from our half year result. Very short also on Schouw & Company. You know we are running this diversification strategy of being a conglomerates have been that for many, many years. We have built on that strategy since 30 years. And we, of course, fine-tuned and developed this strategy over these years. We have been in and out of a lot of different companies. And today, I think we have a very clear model, a very clear move. So [ Brande ] on how we are operating and running Schouw & Company. I would say we see ourselves today as a truly global company and have a good insight on what's going on around the world. We have factories in China, we have in South America and U.S. and so we will have a strong feel of what's going on. And a lot of things has changed over, I would say, the last 2 years, thing also we will have to look more and more in to be in the region, for the region. Maybe we'll look more into 3 different regions, also U.S., Americas, Europe, Asia. And what -- how are we going to handle the impact of Russia and so on in the future. We have had operations in Russia, especially in BioMar, and we were very fast closing those activities down already, I think it was the 5th of March. We announced that we are out of Russia and of course, it had a rather huge impact on our profitability in one of our BioMar sites, the Danish factory in Jutland had a big business going with Russia, and we -- of course, we closed it down, and we have taken some depreciation. We still have a lot of cash standing in Russia, and we, of course, working hard on getting it out because it is our money and we -- it's money we made our profit we made before the war started. But we are out of that. So that has been, of course, an impact around our conglomerate on also what has been going on in Russia. And now also, we have to face energy prices increases -- increasing and so on. But we're not here for the short run. I think we can elaborate a little bit on that at the end of the day, how do we view the world and so on, but more also to look into these 2 important companies. I just show here, and most of you also know we have 6 companies today in our portfolio. We say we have 6 very relevant businesses, meaning they are also future proof. They are all of them in sectors that we expect to continue to grow in future and we say they are as relevant as ever. We are all of them, the 6 companies today operating within the business. The business segment we call them solution providers, meaning we are supplying industrial -- global industrial companies or blue-chip customers with a lot of materials from feed to salmon production, from materials to produce the possible diapers, from solutions to wind turbines, et cetera, et cetera. So we are in -- we are servicing a lot of different industries around the world. Also, we are in what we call rather low-margin businesses, meaning we need to have a very stringent model on how we run the business every day. Strong focus on being efficient, but also trying to innovate to get away from being a real low-margin supplier. And then we have the saying we are working on moving from volume to value, and that's the thinking going on in our companies every day. We also have a huge sourcing department, but a huge sourcing is going on in all our company. I think we are acquiring input products for plus DKK 20 billion every year. So also means that we need to be really on top of sourcing on what is -- how does the proteins develop, how does oil, how does energy, et cetera, a lot of input costs are coming in. So plus DKK 20 billion is the sourcing challenge for Schouw & Company in a year like this. The good thing is when we look at these 6 companies and -- they have a lot of similarities, meaning also we can apply kind of the same thinking in the boardroom in each of the companies. And also if -- when we take it out at Schouw level we know and understand how businesses like this they are operating, having large customers, what does that mean? Should we be nervous when we have a huge global customer pushing us on prices, et cetera, et cetera. So thing we have learned to handle and live with that. And that's super good. I won't get into all of the companies, BioMar and GPV. They will have their time to shine today. And then I think we have the 2 fiber businesses have been with us for many years, looking at their energy position for the time being, maybe they're the most challenged in our portfolio because they are huge consumers of energy. And of course, we have a lot of initiatives around how to offset these energy costs. I won't get too much into that. And then we have our hydraulic solution provider, and then we have the latest kid in our portfolio, Borg in doing remanufacturing of parts for automotives. I won't get into it too much. Maybe elaborate a little bit on this one, saying, what is Schouw & Company? What are we doing? What's our purpose and we have worked a lot with our purpose over the last year. And looking at it, we see ourselves as what we call a responsible long-term owner enabling growth through transformation. We are really working on being transformative, continue to be transformative. And if we can't continue to transform the companies in our portfolio, then we have to look at in a new context, should we consolidate or how should we do with the companies. But for the time being, we have 6 strong companies, we are able to continue to transform and work with them. We also like to grow. We think growth is fundamental. Of course, it goes without saying that growth needs to go hand-in-hand with being profitable and something we also work hard on. And I think over the last years, we have always had a responsibility in mind. But over the last year, responsibility, ESG and so on, is coming more and more. We are working a lot on how can we create value on really taking the ESG agenda, putting it forward and something Kasper, our new man in the organization also is working on it. We have a lot of good initiatives going on around the Company, and Carlos especially will present some ESG sustainability initiatives. So we have a very distinctive model on how to run the company. We call it the Schouw model for Brande. We are at headquarter level in Schouw around 18 people sitting there. So we are having -- we call it always work after a lean philosophy and lean starts at headquarters. So a very, very lean headquarter where we exercise on setting strategic direction being active owner, do the funding and the treasury at a group level, et cetera. So we're working on what we say. Let's see if there are intelligent synergies, we can create value by doing at group level. All other activities they are placed in each of our 6 companies, CEO and the management, they hold the key to run the company, and that's very important for us that looking at Carlos, looking at Bo, they know they have full responsibility for what's going on in their company. So if something happens in, we can challenge management and discuss with them. So that's very important for our model. Good. Very fast look into also saying that we have been transforming businesses for more than a century, as I said, plus 30 years where this strategy started. We won't go back in history, but started when we were a packaging company, sold 50% of that, and then we started. And you can see the light blues here are companies we have been in and all of them are living a very, very good life today. They are stand-alone. A lot of things has happened. So we have been in this company out of them, and now we have these 6 strong companies in our portfolio. We always had this philosophy that if we buy a company, we buy it, as we said, to transform and to hold, we never buy it with an exit or sell purpose. Of course, we have sold, we have been out of it because it has made sense. We were not longer the best owner or there was a lot of consolidation going on in the industries, and we had to participate in that, and we have created a lot of value also by participating in consolidation. A good example is Vestas, started back in '93 with Micron. And then finally, we ended up being a shareholder investors because of different mergers and then we sold the Vestas share. So we have been on the journey with the winter buying for many years and continue to transform. It was a rather bumpy road, but at the end of the day, the story ended happy for us, but it was really a lot of turmoil going on in this, but we have the stamina to stay on. Have this one, and maybe I won't go too much into it, you can -- it's in the slide deck send out, but just saying what does it mean when we are saying transforming, and we really think it is to create a long-term responsible value. And I think also our main shareholders, they have this strategy saying, we want you to work long term. We want you really to have a vision on where should the company be in the long run, and we call it a little bit the steady, the invisible hand sitting there. Giving direction but of course, also having always in mind that we need to create value. So we have 4 levers we work on, I won't get too much into it. But taking company to a next level, continue to grow. We have really a strong aspiration on continuing to grow because if you don't grow a company, a lot of things happens. And we have learned over the years that, that's necessary. Need to be innovative. It's very difficult to be innovative in some of the companies we are in. So really need to push and focus on this innovation. And how can you innovate a material for disposable diaper where you're just making white roles made out of 1 raw material, but a good example of making it more soft, make it more elastic or for the time being down gauging from a weight of 8-gram per square meter to 5-gram per square meter, meaning we are -- it really goes well into the sustainability agenda. So a lot of innovation is going on. And then the last 1 we really came up there is the ESG agenda, and we will push hard for that over the coming years. I'll just touch a little bit on it today because we are still working on the platform. But if there are things Kasper can elaborate a little bit on it. Otherwise, you can discuss with him. Just a good example on how did we transformation. Promise you, I won't take you through all the comments. But I think this story about Kian , the first company we acquired into when we started our diversification strategy back in '89. We bought -- acquired a small company in the western part of Jutland called [indiscernible], and they were doing unoriginal spare parts or not doing they were supplying the wholesale of unoriginal spare parts for the agriculture sector in Denmark. And before that, we had -- we were a process-oriented company doing a packaging material for the dairy industry as a really process industry. And so it was a totally crazy move. But in those days, this being a diversified companies was really a good strategy. We went into it spent a lot of money in it at that time, half of the proceeds from selling 50% of our packaging, DKK 123 million, worked a lot with it and did a lot of things. And today, we are having one of the companies still in our portfolio called HydraSpecma, and it has been transformed on a lot of different steps, where we, at a certain point, demerged Grene into 2 companies, Hydra, Grene were in hydraulics and much more solution provider and then Grene, who was only supplying spare parts or distributing spare parts in the Nordic merged and created the biggest spare part solution provider in Europe Kramp. Went out of that, and now we are after doing acquisitions and so in having HydraSpecma. And in this period, we have generated cash out to Schouw of DKK 1.7 billion as a dividend to Schouw from this structure here and still having HydraSpecma as a strong company in our portfolio. It's just telling the story about we continue to transform. And I think really just doesn't seem as anything, but this idea of demerging a company. Then we have this company, but we demerged it. And a lot of people said you could sell off and so, but we made 2 different companies and made a lot of good value out of that. And all by a certain this demerger made that the 2 companies could really concentrate on their focus. And that's what I'm always saying that maybe we are diversified, but each of our companies, they are 100% focused on what they do in fish feed or in electronic manufacturing service or in doing one material for disposable diapers and so on. So it's more we have a framework on how to handle diversification at Schouw, but Carlos and his team, Bo et cetera, they are focused on what they do every day. This one may -- sorry, that's all the figures I have already told them, but this one is very important. DKK 1.7 billion cash out have already said. Elaborated a little bit on that, looking at our portfolio and so on, saying, okay, maybe we are -- we hold a portfolio of what we call limited cyclicality. Looking at it over a long period, we have been -- I have -- you can see my hair color, I have been in 3 huge crisis even I was also here in 2000 when the dot-com really exploded. So just looking at what has been happening on our earnings, et cetera, when we went through these crisis 2008, of course, a totally different situation than in 2000. And 2022, where we had the COVID, we have the Russia, et cetera. It's more on an operational level, we were impacted here it was more on -- we had shares in investors and in 2000 and '08, I still remember, we had 4 million shares, maximum price we sold at DKK 698 million and not long after we had a share price of DKK 26. That was really scary. And it went so fast, but that was a different situation. That was a financial crisis. This is something totally different. And we have to understand how to handle and to go in it. But so far, we have been able to manage through the cycle -- cyclical situation. Of course, now we have energy and so on. But a little elaboration on maybe we have a good risk spread in our portfolio, and we can withstand what's going on. What is -- how do we spend our cash, what is really going on in Schouw & Company in a year like this in 2022, where we say we continue to transform and really do a lot of things. And [ Clark ] is sitting here on the front row, always pushing me on net working capital, right? But just to illustrative show how do we spend money in Schouw in a year like this. We have spent around DKK 4 billion this year or deployed for DKK 4 billion of capital. We have every year mentioned a CapEx of around DKK 7 million, so having 71 factories around the world, you need it costs quite a lot to keep them running. And it's -- I think depreciation cash by around DKK 800 million or something like that DKK 700, DKK 800 million. Then we have deployed -- we have had to deploy DKK 700 million into increase in net working capital because of prices increasing, approaching up with 40% polypropylene, up with a loss, et cetera. So that has really driven a plus DKK 700 million net working capital. Then we have expansion CapEx, and we used to invest a lot of something. We all need to understand also Schouw & Company, we are -- we have to invest in CapEx a lot. And sometimes it comes in sequence, looking into 2023, we don't really have huge CapEx investments. Of course, we have our maintenance, but we won't see big announcements on new CapEx investments, maybe in '23, maybe in '25. Let's see what happens. But we have had a huge CapEx expansion program going on. And then we have, of course, on the M&A side, also being active, we are doing the Enics acquisition and Carlos has acquired a small tech company in Tasmania. And then we have deployed what we call DKK 300 million in net working capital for growth, having the financial strength to say, okay, we put a lot of components, et cetera, on -- into our inventory. So we are able to supply our big customers and then, of course, tax et cetera. And then we have made a payout to shareholders of DKK 700 million in 2022. So we say we are working in 4 -- we have 4 ways of thinking deployment of capital, sustaining the platform, growing our business, then we have something we can't avoid, unfortunately. External outflow, of course, we are proud to be a taxpayer. We have to and then, of course, also return to shareholders. So that's the thinking when we are working on our capital base in Schouw & Company. And then not going back to history, about 140 years. And still, we are as ambitious as ever. I think we have very strong ambitions. I think you will see the 2 -- when the 2 CEOs are presenting their companies that there's a strong aspiration for growing and for being more profitable and so on. And we think this ambition in 4 ways. Of course, we continue to have our transformation mindset also meaning we have to be bold. We cannot stop taking the right decisions because we have a crisis, et cetera. Of course, we need to understand what's going on and how can we finance and so on. But also, we need to be bold and there do the right things in spite of what's going on around us. And maybe also, it will open a lot of opportunities for us. We also need to work a lot into this being responsible, although I think we have always been responsible, but there is much more focus on the responsibility agenda. Somebody will maybe wonder on these people before profit, but we have a strong belief that having the right people, handling them the right way then profit will come. Then growth will come, you will be more innovative, et cetera. So it's very important for us. Selling direct -- direction means and then, of course, also having these financial ambitions. And I think we are very ambitious when we are saying we still -- we keep our regional invested capital 15% also in turbulent times, and we have to work hard for it for the time being. But this one, you're saying, we still believe in the business model around Schouw & Company. And we really have also saying that we are patient. We have this long-term view. But of course, we know we need to deliver and everyone has to understand that you need to deliver on the targets we are setting and then we have 2 -- sorry, no, maybe this one, let me start with this one saying. This is a little look into our engine room. We had our top 40 one week at IMD in Lucene just the week before summer holiday and this is my notebook. And this notebook is really what we drive Schouw & Company after. We were down there in 2019. There was a whiteboard. And every day, I just made a small note and this whiteboard and all [indiscernible] develop into, okay, this is the way we think. It was really a whiteboard. And all my purpose this year, it's a green board. It's not a white board. And that's because we have to think much more into sustainability, et cetera. And these statements means a lot. If you can see here, we are saying plus 2 PP as a plus 2% point on profitability. That's our ambition. We need to push for that. There's a lot of things, and we do it, et cetera, but -- and how should we think solution innovate is bold, still need to be bold. Don't be afraid. Even we have a crisis et cetera going on. It said, I won't go into all of them push for return on invested capital, diversity, we changed diversity into cognitive diversity, meaning, of course, we need to be diverse, gender, age, color, et cetera, et cetera. So it's something we really elaborated on, and we think most value creation would be if we really could push for this cognitive diversity. And of course, we were challenged. We were 42 persons, I think, all the first day in blue shirts and everyone was really read with 400 participants, and we had this group for under some, what? One woman. That was, of course, but that was how it was. And I think we really took our mindset a lot. So it's -- there's a lot into a green board like this one. It means a lot, and that's -- it starts my mindset, and we put it into action plans, et cetera, and a mindset like this can, of course, elaborate into strategy houses to a lot of things. But this is how we think, and this is how we work. And again, people drive profit and purpose. I think that's very important also. So just a little look into our -- to my notebook and still saying we are still very ambitious. And -- we think it's very important that we continue to transform to sustain. And I think that's very important. If you stop transforming or if you stop having ambitions or aspirations as on, you cannot sustain things will happen. Then into this, we have 2 types of targets that we have what we call the group target. We named the group target -- I mentioned the group target on the turnover and profitability, I think it was after Q1 saying that ambition to 2025 grow revenue to more than DKK 35 billion. I said already now, expect DKK 30 billion in '22. A lot of things has happened since we came up with this ambition here because we are raw material driven, meaning if prices explodes up, then our turnover also explode. But this is before Enics. And a lot of people would, of course, challenge us and say, okay, is that there may be, is that as ambitious as you think. And looking at it now, we are elaborating, we're going through all our companies and what does the new situation mean and so on. And I think when we are finished, we have a strategy session with our Board in 2023, think we will be a little bit more ambitious here without disclosing any figures because that would not be serious, we have not worked through it, but I think we see a potential both here and here for -- and I think after you have seen what the 2 gentlemen will present, you will also see that there's a good momentum in our company. And then we work at group level with 3 strategic goals. Return on invested capital, really driven on that. We say it's our key figure. And I think the CEOs also know that we are discussing and elaborating a lot of that. Of course, some of our companies, difficulties for the time being and delivering here. We are also working a lot on how much should we lever -- leverage our company. And we have this gearing target saying between 1x to 2.5x. Of course, if something very, very exciting happens maybe we have to go to the banks and see if we could have attractive funding, et cetera. But we will like to go back again into this, we call it our strategic comfort so. And then also being able to pay out dividends, clear target of consistent or increasing dividends year-by-year, last 5 years, DKK 1.8 billion in dividends to the market. Then we move into the target setting for each of our portfolio companies, 3 portfolio -- 3 targets growth. We want them to grow because we don't -- as I mentioned earlier on, we don't believe in companies that don't grow. We want each of our companies to have earnings on par with the best. We cannot see why they shouldn't be able to deliver that. They have always access to finance, to CapEx, to whatever, and they have a very clever and good owner. So why shouldn't they be able to deliver here. And then we put in much more on the responsibility and clear EBITDA targets also for all of our companies, and I think some of you could elaborate on, okay, where are you now on these EBITDA targets. BioMar, just mentioned, EBITDA half year, 4.1% for the half year, H1 is low season for BioMar, et cetera. Here challenged. Here challenged. Here, we are close. Here we are very close. Here we are close. So we always work on these targets, but very important that they have a band they work in and we really follow hard up on that. So also, 3 groups or corporate targets and 3 targets for our portfolio companies. Then also looking into what I call our new framework, our ESG. We used to work with active ownership model, we call it 3 x 3 as a kind of levers. One is margin management. How you deploy your capital. So now we have 4 x 3 because ESG has come on as the fourth lever in our business system. And we have 4 -- 3 areas, the 3 Ps, we call it produced responsible, protect our workers and promote innovation, then a lot of things is going on underneath. I won't go into it, maybe just saying that one, we want to transition to 100% renewable electricity. We want to strengthen our diversity mindset. A lot of things is going on here. And I think just a few minutes ago, we announced that we have started a cooperation with what they call Schneider on PPA, power purchase agreement. We want the 40 factories in Europe to be on renewable energy. And I think Kasper has worked a lot on that, and we'll see what comes out of it. We just started the framework. So really pushing hard for also being strong on the ESG and the end product. Again, we have to create value out of it. Don't be naive. We also need to create value out of pushing this ESG agenda. But we think we can. I think Carlos has a lot of good examples also on how we push it and how we create value, both for company, for employees and for customers. So closing remark from my side before we start the more exciting presentations is looking at Schouw, saying, okay, we are -- we drive our profit through this transformation agenda I elaborated on. We have a lot of good tools in our toolbox as we have our 4 x 3, we our strategy house. We have the way we exercise active ownership. And maybe the most important thing is that each of the 6 CEOs, they hold the key. They are full responsibility for running the company on a daily basis. Then we also have this long-term responsible owner. I think also for our company is very important. There's a steady hand out there, and we are patient but demanding. We have 6 companies in our portfolio, risk spread. I know time is running Kasper. And then we are a return-on-investment capital driven. We, of course, also know we need to deliver to shareholders and have a strong focus on that. So that was the closing remark and then maybe a few questions. Otherwise, we can wrap up at the end of the day if there are. See, if there are a few ones, then... Yes.

Claus Almer from Nordea. Two questions, Jens. One is you mentioned ROIC as on your Board, I think it was. So you have this at least 15% ROIC target. And if you're going to put focus on ROIC, meaning, I guess, it's going to go up. So what should we think about ROIC?

Yes. But we are -- as I said, some of our companies are close by. And if we look back in '21, some of the companies that have been struggling with ROIC they, in fact, got over the 15% at bar back now in problems. But we will push a lot on that and also look into the potential for if we don't see on the longer run that a company can deliver over some years up in that area, then we need to do something. You need to think in consolidation or other way. So we push for that, absolutely.

20% is possible to...

Okay. That was -- I don't think so. We go for whatever ROIC we can. And I think some of our companies have been out there touching even the plus 20%. So if we can, of course, we don't stop. But I think that's our minimum threshold we really push out for.

Okay, just a final on M&A. You're saying you need to use a crisis to do M&A or you're at least thinking long term. So shouldn't you just go all forward here in a possible downturn to do M&A?

Of course, we have our leverage target or to saying we cannot take Schouw too high in gearing because we also need to be able to do and support each of the 6 companies. But of course, there will be opportunities, and we could also be open for it. And I think everyone, we are looking at attractive targets for the time being. And then we evaluate it always. Is it worth the risk? Can we finance it, et cetera? So let's see things might happen. Yes. And I think the Enics, in fact, is a very good example because it's a company and Borg show a little bit. They are profitable but not as profitable as us. They realize maybe they need to get into a company with the momentum, the business model, et cetera, that we have. So that was an opportunity that came out of not the crisis but still, and we were open to take it.

Klaus Kehl from Nykredit. Another question to your ROIC targets. You talked a lot about it, and you also talked about organic growth, et cetera, and it all sounds, yes, fine. But is it embedded in your bonus model?

We don't have a bonus model on growing like that. We have 2 models. We have STI as a short-term incentive year -- on yearly basis, and then we have a share option program. So we don't say if you just grow into the sky and then you will have a bonus. It has to go hand-in-hand also with the profitability, et cetera.

Okay. But wouldn't it make sense to include it in a bonus model?

We are -- without disclosing that, of course, we're also looking into an LTI program for management in each of the companies. But we are not a private equity company. We are a listed company, always been running the company like that. I don't think just because you have a bonus on driving growth, that will be the lever.

Okay. Right. Second question. You also talked about being the right owner of your portfolio companies. And if you just look, let's say, 3 years down the road, then GPV could double its revenue. It could be a rather large company. So are you the right owner of GPV 3 years down the road? And I could also ask the same question about BioMar. And what I'm thinking about is whether it could make sense to make a separate listing of some of your companies.

Of course, it's in the toolbox also things we have worked on before going the way back to energy micro investors, et cetera. So we know also how that works. But always say we are the best owner as long as we're able to fund the growth being a -- setting strategic direction, et cetera. But of course, we also need to look into how to create best value. So let's see what happens, but we can still fund M&A and growth for both BioMar and GPV. And then we don't see any reason to change that. But I think also I said we are open -- we are always looking at, are we the best owner? Can we continue to transform? Can we continue to create long-term value?

Ulrik Bak from SEB. Just a clarifying question about your ROIC definition. Can you -- is it pretax? And excluding goodwill? Or how should we think...

I think we will let Kasper elaborate on that. But it is -- yes, we have been discussing it a lot. Kasper, you know exactly the...

Yes, it's the ROIC is pretax. In our mindset. And when we say including or excluding goodwill, is when we look at acquisitions, it is, of course, including goodwill. But when we look at our individual businesses, then we tend to measure them on what assets they are having. So there, we are also having a ROIC look without having goodwill in it. So we tend to look at both. And in our internal management reporting, we have both numbers.

I think also in our reports, you will see both figures, in fact, in the annual report. So disclosed both figures.

Okay. So on a group level, it should be including goodwill, above 15%. But on a company level, just...

No, that's our internal when we are looking at it. Of course, we also know that there's a goodwill in. So -- but we have 1 figure we are reporting on. And one way of doing it.

Yes. All right. And then a question on this revenue level of DKK 35 billion. So what has the impact from these increased prices for raw materials, energy been on -- in your '22 guidance compared to maybe '21. So how much -- and how do you think about the level of these cost increases and yes, how it affects revenue going forward?

Of course, it has had a huge impact. I think we increased the revenue first. First take on revenue in '22 was DKK 27 billion, I think. So plus around DKK 3 billion. And what is our take on it. It's very difficult. We can see proteins are being reduced a little bit after Ukraine opened up for getting grain out of Ukraine is set up, but still it's very, very volatile. Polypropylene down for the time being because oil prices may be a little bit dumbed. To be honest, it's very difficult to say anything about what's going on. But of course, we need to make our mindset clear when we go into 2023 and guide and what do we guide on, do we guide on actual raw material and component levels or what. So we haven't made it up yet.

Okay. But if you say DKK 27 billion, that was your guidance coming into the year and now it's up to DKK 30 billion following the raw material prices. Should we assuming that all raw material prices are constant from now on, would the ambition then be DKK 38 billion?

Well, I think I said also that I think we will have to look at our top line ambitions and we have our strategy seminar in January, but there are so much volatility going on. So I could easily -- not easily, it was the wrong word. But I could see it trending towards DKK 40 billion, but we have to be more clear on it. But we are not naive. Of course, we can also see that maybe this figure is -- we have to work on it. Yes. Okay. Maybe if there's not the one last question, then I think we will -- look at the watch. And do we have a small break now, Kasper or do we -- I have to look at the -- yes, we don't have any break. So I would like short...

Excuse me. Sorry. I'm also from Nykredit from the ESG team. I have a question regarding your diversity at the board level. So when we look at your Board and management composition the overall diversity, what is your thinking on the number of, for example, women in the Board and management. You were at 12.5% females. There's an EU directive coming in 2026, where at least 40% of Board members in European publicly listed companies with above 250 employees should be the underrepresented gender. So you're a bit behind the 40% target. in your ESG report and also in your sites, you talk a lot about diversity. So maybe a bit on that. In terms of age, your average ages in the board and the management is 61.7 years. If you look at trends such as digitalization, automation, robotic expect data, et cetera. What are you thinking about access to the latest knowledge at your Board and management level, given these numbers?

First, normally never comment on Board because that's my bosses. So I cannot set the Board. But I'm quite sure that the Board are aware of the diversity theme, and we have also a policy, and we are looking for how to do that. And if that will come it is 40%, then of course, we will apply to that. So -- but honestly, I have to say it's a Board matter. And also, if it's top management, of course, then there's the age thing I fully understand, but now it is we have the age we have. I still use the iPhone and iPad and things like that, and I'm not that luckily. So no, but it's more to say a little bit, of course, the older you get, the more openly also be to these discussions and say, okay, I think also I know exactly what's going on, on digitalization, i.e., et cetera, et cetera. So -- but -- and when we will change management, then -- of course, a younger person will come. I think also, I addressed it saying that we were 40, plus 40 males at and 1 woman at our R&D and all of us looked around and said, what's going on here. So we have to work on that, absolutely. And I think we are very, very much aware of it. But I think on the age thing, that's -- of course, I have the age I have now, but that's the composition we have. And if you look into -- just one thing, if you look into top management, we are 2 men. And if we should change that either we should extend. I don't think we should that or we should change one. But let's see what the Board will do. We are open on it, and they know it's an issue.

Okay. If something then take it there. We have a final wrap-up. Then let me shortly introduce BioMar and Carlos, I just have one slide. It's also again thinking a little bit about the transformation. BioMar came in 2005, December 2005, interesting company that had been in a lot of turmoil. We're looking for a new owner. They didn't know they we're looking for a new owner, but I knew. So we went to them and luckily, we got it into our hands and we have been transforming it a lot. Got into Lats America into the very interesting Chilean salmon market with a big acquisition. We expanded our salmon markets into Australia, and now we are looking into Iceland. We have ventured into shrimp by a big acquisition, very big acquisition in Ecuador has been so far very successful. And then now we are looking into tech and digitalization, artificial intelligence, et cetera. So a lot of things has been going on. I would think super interesting to say when we acquired in 2005, company with a turnover of DKK 2.6 billion, now looking for DKK 13 billion, DKK 12 billion, DKK 13 billion, DKK 14 billion in turnover and Carlos will show you strong plans for growing. And I think also cumulated average growth, 11.6% over the years. We have -- all in all, we also merged with BioMar to Schouw shares. So we say we have a price -- acquisition price of DKK 1.6 billion, some of them were shares, we swapped. So cash out was, I think, DKK 900 million or something, yes, DKK 900 million. And we have had dividends so far of DKK 3.2 billion out of BioMar. And then we still have BioMar and that's good. We have that. So with these words and no further do, I think I would like to introduce Carlos. Carlos has been with us for many years. Chilean by native and know this industry and business out and in, and I think you will introduce yourself, Carlos, but welcome.

Can you hear?

Yes.

Perfect. Okay. First of all, thank you very much for being here. Attending to this Capital Day, I will try to show you something about BioMar, what we do as an important part of scope. I will try to make it interactive. So if you have questions, you can interrupt me or then we take it at the end. As Jens said, I have been in the company for a long time. I'm Chilean. I have been the CEO of BioMar now for -- since 2015. But being in the company for long time in many positions from technical sales, a lot of things, operations in general. And in the agriculture industry, also for a very, very long time. This will be the agenda. We will start with a short introduction about BioMar. I guess you know a lot about it, so it will not take a long time. I will try also to show you what do we think about and how do we see the global aqua feed market. Then we will try to talk about our strategy above and beyond very interesting process that we have just finished in June and is what we have set our ambitions going forward. Some BioMar insights, different things that we are doing, how do we think. And then very important, I know there's quite some people here interesting in ESG, sustainability, how do we see it from a company point of view, but also how do we see that we can take value out of sustainability, which is what we really try to do in BioMar. So as an introduction. This is most of you noticed figures. This is our key figures for 2021 and turnover of around EUR 1.9 billion, an EBITDA around EUR 82 million, turnover of around of around 1.6%. We have around 1,700 employees. So we are not a very intense in people company. We feed about 45 species around the world from Shrimp to different fits in every part of the world and more or less sales in 90 countries between operating units and exports. We like to say we are a purpose-driven company. We wait to like to be considered innovators, not only in fit, but in aquaculture in general, really focused on sustainability and performance. And this is our global footprint. It has been growing a lot since it started. Right now, we have around 17 sites around the world in the main agriculture hubs for aquaculture. We also have our global headquarters, as you know, are in Aarhus here in Denmark. We have what we call the agriculture technology centers, which is our trial units. We are really focused on R&D. Everything that we do is try new raw materials, to do trials with fish with Shrimp in different parts of the world, different conditions. So we have trial facilities in Chile, in Ecuador, in Denmark and in Norway. So this is more or less our footprint in that. And our sales is everything that you see in light blue, maybe we should have taken out that light blue there. As Jens said, unfortunately, we have to be out of Russia, which was a very important market for us. But basically, we did it because we believe it's the right thing to do. And even if it really affected our sales, especially for the Danish factory this year. How do we see the global aqua feed market? How is it developing in the different areas, geographies, species, what is -- where do we play in BioMar? First of all, there's some global megatrends that have repo effects into our culture, and some of them have really been more strong in the last period, especially due to COVID. Demographic change, shifting economic power, climate change, very important, rapid urbanization, digitalization, that is influencing a lot our sector and having some effects. We have an expansion. We seek agriculture will double until 2050. There is an increasing demand for sustainable products. People is more interested in that. They are more interested in knowing what they are eating. People is also buying more online. When you buy online, you really look at what you're buying different when you go to the supermarket and just read for 5 minutes, the label. There's a focus on circular and restorative economy. Retail is changing, and there is an expansion and adoption of technologies both in retail, in production, but also in the way we do assistance to farmers. So all of this, of course, is having an influence on what we do in BioMar and how do we see the world. How do we see the global market growth? As you can see in the slide, there is still a nice growth. It is lower than before, but still some really nice pools of growth and over a very nice total volume. Shrimp is definitely the star here, still growing a lot in many countries and very attractive. Salmon is slowing down, but still 2% annually over quite a big base. Mediterranean, slowing down, but still growing. So in general, all of them are growing, which, of course, is very good for us. We are in an industry which is growing. There is a demand for these products. Aquaculture protein is definitely the most efficient way to produce protein. So of course, we are where to play. We are in the right place as BioMar. With all of this background, demographic change or shifting economic power, megatrends and a market which is growing, we decided in -- at the end of last year actually, we were ending COVID. It has been extremely special year for everyone. Raw materials going up, energy and a lot of things happening. It's time to do a new strategy process. So we went with one of the big strategy houses and relook at what we were doing. Where should we play? Has that changed? How to win there and of course, how to execute it later. And we created this strategy. We name it above and beyond for good reasons. We really will try to take BioMar. We already took it to another level from 2017 when we did our last strategy process. But to take it to the new level with new ambitions. And that's why we call it above and beyond in many aspects of our strategy. What are our core ambitions? We divide it to make it simple in 3. Of course, we recognize there is a lot of things that we can do better. That usually in a strategy, you see where I can grow, where I can go a new market, but we really now we looked inside our own, and we believe that we can do some things better. We've talked about working capital, you have talk about the operational excellence, commercial excellence, how to commercialize what we have in sustainability and really take the value out of it. This is what we call protect the core. So we will really focus in this period, not only in the growth, but also in do better what we're doing every day. Of course, we go for growth. As Jens said, we -- that is our agenda. We want to grow. So we will accelerate growth in the period, and we will go to new geographies, new markets, and I will show later where do we see the profit pools, remembering the global megatrends and the species that you saw in the slide before. And then we will try to move into another area, what we call feeder proof beyond feed. We believe that we could become -- not only a feed producer, a solution provider. We have many, many -- a lot of knowledge in our company, many competencies. We believe that we can be the best owner for some of these new ventures or they can be a complement for what we do, becoming a solution provider for the farmers. Farmers around the world depending, of course, of the specie and the maturity of the different industries, they require more than feed. They require knowledge and sustainability, in how to produce in farming, digitalizing, new technologies, and we want to be there. Industries, they require more than feed. They required knowledge and sustainability, in how to produce in farming, vitalizing new technologies, and we want to be there. We have the competence. So why not to explore these other areas, which I will show later, which of them are them. This is what we call our tracking house, how we try to summarize our ambitions in our new strategy period, which is until 2028, not 2025, but 2028. Basically, of course, starting from our purpose, our guiding principles, innovation, collaboration, sustainability and performance, as I said before, moving to the enablers, which is basically all what we do in our company and global sanctions, but also operating companies. And then the 3 areas that I described before. Protect the core, accelerate growth, Future-proof beyond feed. Starting with Protect the core. As I said before, we see a lot, we did a very deep, dive into what can we do better, what can be improved. And definitely, we will focus in commercial excellence to better what we are commercializing in the different markets. Now we have many different markets, very different, many different customers, different contracts that in some cases were not made for what has happened in the last period with the increase of energy and a lot of things that we have open this, we need to be better at this. We need to be better in commercial excellence, be prepared to think -- of course, nobody could imagine that this was going to happen. Pandemic, the war, et cetera, et cetera. So we need to have be better in what we do, how do we sell the products, but also how do we make the contracts, commitments with customers, adjustment of prices, et cetera. Operational excellence, again, going global is very nice, but of course, it's increased complexity, different species, again, different products, many products, product life management becomes really important managing the stocks because really important also in terms of working capital with increasing raw material prices with increasing price of feed, of course, because we also increase our price of feed on raw materials. We really need to become better at operational excellence in all our units. And that's especially working in our product portfolio, our stock management all around the world where we really see that we have still something to do. Last but not least, we consider ourselves leaders in sustainability. We have done a lot internally. We also have some very nice examples of working with customers in different concepts in some countries, especially, I would say, in Scandinavia and especially in Norway, and we see a big, big interest around the world to try to do that. Customers of course, are caring about sustainability. Aquaculture impact is -- 80% of aquaculture impact is feed. So basically, if we don't get it right, the farmers will not get it right. And from that 80%, 90% of our impact or more than that, 95% is raw materials. So basically, we really need to be good at raw materials, R&D, innovation and hopefully use that to create a story for the farmers so they can differentiate, and we can also differentiate. So we're really focusing commercial sustainability, not only salmon we have some very good examples around the world, the shrimp industry, the Mediterranean industry. Asia is starting. So this is a big move, and we want to be ready for that. Accelerated growth different to the strategies we had before, where we said, okay, we go into shrimp because we were not in shrimp in the last strategy or Asia. Now we are there. But now we will focus -- actually, we have targets identified very clear targets. Some of them are already happening, as you maybe have seen in the news. In salmon, we are quite strong where we function, but there are still 2 markets where we are not working. That's Canada and that's Iceland. We are looking into the further period into both markets. And as you saw, we already announced some possible collaboration in Iceland. EMEA. EMEA, we call EMEA, of course, all Europe, North of Africa, and we see some good opportunities, not so much of new -- for new markets, but consolidating some of the industries, especially in the Mediterranean industry. We are very strong in Bass and Bream in the Mediterranean. There's especially 2 countries there where -- which are still fragmented, say, very fragmented. And we really see the opportunity to consolidate it. We have some very profitable operations in both Greece, Turkey, for example, and we will really go for trying to reshape that industry and be an active consolidator. Asia, as you know, we are in China. For some years. Now we started in Vietnam last year in the middle of the pandemic, which has not been very easy. But we see especially some other countries there where we already are identifying targets also, mainly for shrimp. We were -- you will see happening in the period, 1, hopefully, 2 new countries in order to -- we have a bigger footprint in the Asian region. And that's basically India, Indonesia. Not so much Thailand. Those countries are the most interesting ones, and there is some, of course, interesting targets for us in those markets. And last but not least, future-proof beyond feed. We will not go for everything out of it, of course. We made a long list of possibilities analyze where should we play, what -- where are we best sure to do it -- and some of them are maybe new revenue streams where we could be the best owner because of our knowledge. Some of them are complementary and some of them are enablers. We chose these 3 novel feed ingredients. You will not see BioMar being a soya producer or a corn gluten producer, but we could play a role in the single-fuel protein area in the Noble oils area. Either through strategic partnerships, ownerships or different models. Genetics and larvae, this is especially important in shrimp, where some of the offers of especially in Asia, are linked to the genetics to the people that the farmers put into the sea -- sorry, to the ponds and also the developing feeds for special strains of shrimp, which is one of the bottlenecks to have a healthy small shrimp that can develop to be a big shrimp. And then farming technology, where we really see a new way of doing assistance, technical assistance, a new way of managing farms, a new way, especially in the shrimp, going in the same way as salmon, we were already just after finishing the strategy, had this first opportunity in Q1, and we took it, basically the leader, and we see more movements coming in that direction. All of this, hopefully, will end with, of course, very important. We have our ambitions, our ESG ambitions, climate action, circular and restorative enable people, which definitely we are working also according to the agenda from scope, which I will talk a little bit later. All of this leading to double volume, double revenue. And I will show later that what we expect in terms of EBIT in 2028. Ambitious yes. But our last strategy was also ambitious, and we managed to -- we really believe the market is there. Our organization is there. We have the support. So this is doable until 2028. And this is how we see it, split it with -- hopefully, Kasper will not kill me because of the details, but some of the details that we will do. A lot of it is coming, of course, from what we call the base case until 2028. So our existing units developing. This is what we call the best case, which is already growing quite a lot. Then we talk about the protect -- the core initiatives which is commercial excellence, operational excellence and commercial sustainability, which also will bring quite some contribution. And this is what we call organic until 2028. And then we come in the different acquisitions that consolidations in the different areas, EMEA, Salmon, Asia. We are not including in this calculation of ambition LatAm yet because we see that is happening at the end of the period. So it's more in this area. We expect a lot of development in LatAm, but more in this area in the period. That doesn't mean that we are looking also into targets there. And then the last part, the future-proof beyond feed, which also will have a contribution. Of course, we already have a Q1. We have some nice companies in the pipeline. So definitely, that will have a contribution to reach the targets for 2028. This is how we see that this will happen. And this is what we are really working in the different initiatives from June. But we're still very -- well, not very but concentrated in salmon. So it's very relevant to know how is the salmon world looking and why we are taking the steps that we are doing now. This is the growth in salmon, as I said, slowing down. But of course, from a big base, different roles in different areas. We still see some growth trends, consolidation, definitely, big farmers all over, transparency, sustainability, the name of the game right now. Salmon is the most technologically advanced specie, and we take that knowledge also to our species. Focus increasing in RAS, in land based. They still have to prove that they are successful. There has been some bumpy road for them, but definitely, we believe this will happen. But we see good -- with EBIT pockets in RAS in the small production. Definitely, that is the name of the game in the salmon countries. They need to produce their smolt, bigger smolt to produce into the sea in land base. And of course, for that, there is a special feed. Our footprint, we are a quite relevant player here. we have around 31% market share in -- sorry, in U.K. and around 78% of the free market in that country. We have Norway with there with their own feed. We have another competitor, and we have 78% of what is not Norway then this means 31% of the total market in the U.K. Norway, around 26% of the free market. Again, we also have Norway there. So from the rest, we are around 26%. A big shift happening there right now. Capacity is getting to a limit, which is beginning to be very interesting. Maybe it's beginning to be our time. Longer-term contracts capacity to really work on margins and more better conditions. So this is very nice at least for us. What is happening there? But I have to say, a little bit worrying with the capacity in that area. And sustainability, the name of the game in Norway. The focus on this area is really, really important for all the farmers, especially in Norway. Australia, we just started a couple of years ago. We already have 38% of the total market, a nice story, very profitable market. Changes of ownership. As you have heard maybe Huon changed the funds, which is one of the big ones there. Tassal now changed the funds, one of the big ones. This for us is good actually. These companies that really will focus on those companies and maybe grow in salmon, but also in other spaces. So Australia is really, really an interesting market. Last but not least, Chile, we have around 31% and of the total market and around 38% of the free market. Remember that AquaChile has their own capacity. So from the free market, we have around 38%, a very strong position. Again, some of the same trends, sustainability, community impact, farmers in this country, development channels and digital channels in the U.S. So a lot of things happening in Chile also because it's more focused in the U.S. and Brazil. And Iceland is considered a growth area, and that is exactly what we have just announced after the strategy that we are signing the MOU to really try to build a new facility there. Why? This is why. Iceland, we see quite a nice growth, of course, from a very low level, but they are becoming quite important. We also see the opportunity to have a carbon-neutral operation there because of the thermal and heat energy. We will build if the MOU is successful, the first absolutely carbon neutral operation in the world for salmon. Iceland is also a very attractive location for marine raw materials. We have been working a lot with these companies, and they are very focused on very interesting products and also sustainability. They're also exploring land base in a very interesting way. I have to say quite successfully. The -- one of the land-based projects, which is really successful. And of course, it could be a capacity support for the other units in the North Atlantic. With this, of course, we will even be stronger in the salmon world. It will be only one market where we are not in and we will be the first one to be here. Not a lot of details about what -- how is Iceland looking. But of course, some of the big ones, SalMar, Måsøval are already producing there, some capacity not used yet. And there is also other species, very interesting, Sole Arctic. So quite an interesting market to go in. So we hope to have some news very soon, after day where you has been signed. Shrimp world. Nice story, different picture to salmon, nice growth coming from different areas, quite impressive. And it's even more impressive when we did this, we saw this water growth. But already now, as you see in the arrow, Ecuador is way ahead of what we thought. So very nice growth. And of course, we are in Ecuador, so we are very happy about it, selling much more feet. Movements are going from Asia to LatAm, especially because of Ecuador. Fast consolidation in LatAm, that's also happening there. Bigger farmers. Shrimp 4.0, what we call Shrimp 4.0 is the new technologies for Shrimp getting closer to salmon, and that's exactly why we're going into Q1, increased sustainability focuses the same. If we follow the same trend. Genetics becoming very important as we discussed before, land availability, very important and extrusion usually feed for shrimp has been pelletized and is moving more and more into the extrusion, which, of course, is very good for us because we are exporting extrusion and especially because of the chief to technology and automatic filers like in the salmon world or in the fish world. Growing within shrimp. Of course, we will use our platform in Ecuador and Costa Rica to grow. There's plenty of opportunities in those 2 areas, Central America, but also Ecuador. And profitability is quite good. But there is some interesting countries around like Brazil and Mexico, which, of course, we will look into the period, but we have not included yet in our ambitions. We are concentrated before in Asia. Asia, which are the attractive markets, as I said before, we are already in Vietnam. We are already in China. Of course, we will use that platform to grow but there's some other countries, which are very interesting, especially Indonesia and India are the most attractive hubs that we see in the period, and we are already identifying some targets after finishing the strategy in those two areas. I was talking about the technology development, and I tried to do a parallel or comparison between what has happened in salmon which is exactly what is happening in shrimp basically. We started with salmon, as you remember, with these bags and hand feeding these cages, moving to very simple automatic feeders or not automatic, but semi-automatic, more automatic feeders and now really sophisticated control rooms with cameras, artificial intelligence, feeding the fish and having a much better performance, less people more sustainable, controlling every parameter in the water. The same is happening in shrimp, starting from really, really a basic guy feeding the shrimp in a pond, in Ecuador or Vietnam to some basic feeders. Now we are going into really sophisticated not only feeders but sensors, artificial intelligence to manage that to the same monitoring and utilizing the management of the farm. This is exactly what is happening in those 2 species. And of course, it will go to all other species. And it's one of the reasons why we really believe we need to be in this world. We analyze -- of course, as I said before, where to be a supplier. Of course, the top is obvious. Last feed different mills in different areas and feed for new species that was the logical. But we also analyze a lot of the others as I said, novel ingredients. But especially, we focus on the ones in this part, block chain solutions data, software for farms, diagnositics and hardware, which we really believe is part of the equation for the farmers. You can have the best feed, but if you don't utilize it good, if you don't control it, if you really don't work on efficiency and performance, then it doesn't help to have the best feed. So we really see this as a complement, but also a nice, nice profit pool. That's why we invested in Q1, just after the strategy, starting distributing the same with Iceland, but this one came first. Headquartered in Tasmania, a very innovative company, fully owned now by BioMar, 75% market share in this starting move for really putting technology into shrimp around 50 employees. We have sales offices in Panama, Thailand, Japan and distributors in Ecuador, Mexico, Honduras, Venezuela, so quite a footprint. What is our intention? Of course, to grow it, to maintain the nice development in asset and maybe also to do some business development in this company to complement it with other technologies around the world, maybe not only for shrimp but also for fish. This is the rationale for entering. Customers are demanding it. They are getting bigger. They are consolidating and they need to be more efficient. Just to give you a sense of what this means, a farmer can increase the performance and the yield per hectare 25%, 30%, 35% in some cases. So this is really changing the name of the game. So big customers really want to use it. Is also part of our feed solutions. It's not only the feed, but how do you use it. So definitely, it made a lot of sense to expand and to go into this for BioMar.

Maybe elaborate. Just a little bit on...

I will -- I have a slide. This is what it's doing. Very short. This is digital clip, of course, down there. In the salmon or in the fish, basically, you can have cameras down the water, and you can see them, of course. So basically, you see when the pellets are going and then you have algorithms calculating the movement of the fish, how many pellets are going, so you can control the feeding, you don't lose any feed, you optimize and you are learning, the machine learning is going every day. That is based in cameras. But of course, this was extremely difficult to do it in a pond, which is usually with brown water, you don't see anything. So why -- what these guys developed and what they call an hydrophone. Hydrophone, of course, measures noise. So the shrimp is eating and making a noise. It's hard to believe, but it is making a noise, with this hydrophone very sensible can sense and then it can measure how the shrimp is feeding. When its feeding, how much its feeding when you should stop and when you should feed. That, of course, goes to a very sophisticated controller. Also, with sensors for temperature, for oxygen, a lot of different parameters, learning and very sophisticated algorithm, which is, of course, the brain of all this, learning every day how to feed, the next day and the next day according to parameters in environment. This has been the game changer for shrimp farmers. As I said, the yield per hectare can go -- can increase 30%, 40%, 50%. All the growth of Ecuador that you see right now, a lot of it is coming from automatic feeding. And this company has a big -- a huge actually market share in Ecuador, a good market share in Central America, starting slower in Asia and some in the Middle East where there's also some shrimp farming. Definitely a big potential and also a big potential to improve it and to mix it with feed because, of course, we know the other part. What to do with the nutrition, the digestibility, not only the sound. So this is really, really a complement and a very synergetic approach. And on top of that, a very nice software, Q1 analytics, which basically the poor farmer that was going very hot every day to the farm to see the shrimp. Now they have everything in the screen or in the telephone where he can see the ponds. He can have a Google Map now what is happening in each pond, alarms, oxygen, feeding, your feeding stopped working, everything in your phone. And of course, our people also in screens instead of going there and trying to find guess how many shrimps are in the ponds or whatever. So definitely, a very sophisticated system, which we plan to develop going forward. Talking about the future of BioMar aquafeeds. As I said, feed is 80% of the impact of aquaculture producers, more or less. And from that, raw materials is 90% or 95% of the impact. So we are developing the feeds for the future. If aquaculture need to be successful and grow by double until 2050 in a sustainable way, it's impossible if we as the feed supplier don't work, especially in the raw material part. Not to go long ago sustainability year started in '88, the first environmental feed in the world actually coming from Denmark, actually. [ Ecolineas ] has gone all through the years, introducing new ambitions and very sophisticated tools and parameters in order to measure camber footprint for the farmers, eco-efficiency, parameters, putting targets, et cetera, which I will show, you know what? So we put our 2 2030 ambitions. One is called climate action. We are committed to decrease by 1/3 our carbon footprint in 2030. This is not only our -- the factories. This is the, I would say, the easy expensive but easy part, but this means also the carbon footprint of all our searching. That means that we need to be circular and restorative. 50% of the ingredients we use in our feed by 2030 need to be circular or restorative. And of course, something related to people. We have a big role in training farmers, our people, but also suppliers in order to be able to achieve this. If we don't work with that one, it would be impossible to achieve this one. We saw a little video about this. [Presentation]

So of course, this was beyond what is feed. This is our responsibility, and agriculture -- the only way agriculture will develop will be this way, in a responsible way. We will not be allowed to be done in a irresponsible way. This is -- and we are a big part of this success. But how do we use both of this? The one thing is to be sustainable, is very good. But as Jens was saying, hopefully, we can commercialize it and do it. This is the evolution of the product development in salmon. But if you see it for shrimp, it will be more or less the same from really selling a raw or whole salmon to sophistication and products, first affiliates then going to portions, then the certifications come in ASC, Aquaculture Stewardship Council, Norwegian Council, GSI salmon initiative, a lot of certifications coming now to the very special production where companies or products are trying to be differentiated, telling a story based on sustainability, version biology, best on nutrition. This is happening also in shrimp and also in most of these. Of course, salmon is the most advanced, but we see that this will be definitely the development in all of them. And of course, that will require a lot of traceability systems tools, marketing, but this is definitely the way the industry is going forward and where we want to play. So we have introduced this concept, connecting value chain insights. And of course, as you see there, we are in the center of the value chain. And as I said, we are 80% of the impact to build this story. And if you look here, most of the concerns of the consumers overfishing concerns, food safety, deforestation, climate change, these are the concerns. They are all linked to basically raw materials, and we are the ones mix in these raw materials, making the R&D, looking for new services. So definitely, we see that the market tool will come this side, but technology push that side. And this is the role we want to play together with the farmers and together with the retailers. Again, requires a lot of tools, commendation, traceability, eco-efficiency tools. But definitely, this is the way going forward for a lot of the farmers. Raw materials, as I said, I was talking with some, I don't remember who in the ESG part, is a very important part of the story. Not to make it complex. This is a timeline started with a lot of fish mill, a lot of fish oil, some years ago, has going down, and you are seeing more vegetals coming in, but very interesting more new ingredients. Novel ingredients, single-cell proteins, novel oils coming to the picture. What happened in the period? Very nice story, fish-in-fish-out ratio, how many fish you need to feed to produce fish or shrimp went down, of course, because we reduced this one. But this is the carbon footprint. We increased the digitals. If you do it with soya from either Brazil, this is what happened, it goes up. So we need to do something. Fortunately, we found a way, and now it's going down again. Basically, because we are also, first of all, serving some beta raw materials in other areas in a more responsible way. But second, because we're introducing these novel raw materials, which are designed for producing in aquaculture. So a very important part of the story. And definitely, we are the ones that hold the key to these ones.

My name is Anders Noskov. On the slide, I can't see anything with insects. And you mentioned on the previous slide that novel feeds could include insects. Is that just on a theoretical basis or do you expect it...

No, no, no. It is there. It is somewhere here. It's very small still. So that way. But definitely, insects is one of them. It's one of them for sure. Raw material is part of the story, but also, it's part of a very -- not very nice story.

This is working. Okay. Could you go back to the previous slide? Again, on the new types of raw materials, and I'm from nucleate asset management from the ESG team. Could you elaborate on the amount of protein that you get out of the single-cell raw materials and micro ingredients? When we talk to experts in the feed industry, they say that it's very important that it's a high protein feed that you give to the salmon, for example. How do you ensure that the amount of protein is as high as it should be with the single-cell raw materials and micro ingredients?

That's not to be very, very technical but it explains in a simple way. This is the beauty of this raw materials. Basically, you can tailor make raw materials for aquaculture feed. So yes, they are more concentrated in protein. But salmon feed is -- the challenges in -- especially in salmon feed. The challenge is not to be high in protein. The challenge is that they are very energy dense. So basically, you have a lot of energy coming from oil, which is what the salmon need to be converting and growing faster. And you have less space for the energy. So when you find ingredients that are much more concentrated in protein that has a bigger value for -- especially for salmon diets, because the space is lower, so you have a more nutrient dense. So basically, what you can do with these new technologies is to design the perfect raw material with the perfect amount of protein, amino acids, et cetera, et cetera. So it will depend, of course, of the raw material. But definitely, it is potentially starting. They need more scale. They need to be more efficient. They need to work in their sustainability parameters. But definitely, this is the way forward, especially for salmon feeds, but also for the rest of the species. Did that answer your question? So of course, a good part of the story is raw materials, but also a very nasty part. You have seen what has happened in the last period. First, COVID went to sky. This is a BioMar index, which is combining all the raw materials with the normal raw materials. And then Ukraine and then well, sky is the limit with especially some of the digital raw materials. Of course, this is difficult. You can imagine if feed is 50%, 60% of the cost of aquaculture, increasing prices by, I don't know, 10% or 20% every quarter, that's a tough one. But there is a positive side of this, if we can find a positive side. This has accelerated definitely the development and the introduction of these new raw materials, insect mills, single cells that before it was more difficult because they didn't have the scale, but they are not linked yet, at least they are more industrialized. So you can control the cost better, except for the energy, of course. So this has accelerated. How do we see the future? More coming from trimmings definitely, we need to be better at utilizing the waste, not to waste anything, more ingredient from single cell technologies, more ingredients from lower traffic levels. Still, there will be digital as a majority, but digitals served from a responsible part of the world. Just an example, exactly about the single-site production this was the way we produce fish oil for aquaculture before, starting with micro-algae, all those steps until finishing in aquaculture. With the new raw materials, this is an example. AlgaPrime, you know that salmon is very important, the omega-3 EPA and DHL levels. Now we take an alternative way, use sugarcane as a substrate fermentation and then we have the oil. It's keeping all the fishing in the sea to produce omega-3. This is the way of doing it. Not continue depleting the ocean and going in an alternative way. This is the kind of raw materials where we have strategic partnerships and possible new ventures in BioMar. The same with the protein, another example, protein traditional way. Now we can take emissions, convert in the fermentation and produce a protein mill almost designed for us. This is the new way of seeing raw materials in aquaculture feed. All this brings us to how to commercialize this. And we are introducing a very ambitious project which farmers are really finding it very attractive. I think we are changing the name of the game here, transforming aquaculture, applied sustainability, continuous improvement. This is what we're introducing. Of course, working with raw materials, all that we have shown lower raw materials, optimizing not only on price and availability of raw materials but also on carbon emissions and put into the farmers 3 parameters where they can show continuous improvement to retailers to customers to whoever it is. One is circular and restorative, which percentage of their diet will be circular and restorative. The next one is fish-in-fish-out ratio, how we can reduce it, the use of fish mill or marine raw materials and CO2 missions. How can you have a feed, which is lower in CO2 emissions? So they can show to their customers that they're reducing there. Because they can show that they can reduce the energy in the process plant, that's nothing. They need to show that they are reducing it in the feed in order to be significant. So this is a very ambitious program but this is the way to commercialize all what we do in sustainability, R&D, innovation, especially on raw materials. I think I will show another video for this one. [Presentation]

So final remarks, and then we open for questions. We believe BioMar starts from a very strong base from a knowledge point of view, from a footprint point of view, from a volume point of view, despite the challenges in the last period. The strategy above and beyond is ambitious. It has ambitious targets, and these are early targets or ambitions, shouldn't be the promise. If not, Kasper will kill me. But definitely, it's the ambitions that we're going for. And definitely, we believe is a realistic growth and profitability. Of course, if the targets -- especially if the targets for acquisitions are there. Commercial excellence sustainability will be a driver for the future. It is the name of the game, but it's also a fantastic opportunity to do new business and transform the leadership. And the development, as you have seen, goes in the case of BioMar beyond feed, you will see BioMar maybe going into more of these ventures. As I mentioned before, novel ingredients, maybe genetics and definitely technology. Thank you very much, and I hope we have some time for questions.

The first question goes to the whole ESG drive, which you spend a lot of time on. How do you see this from an industry point of view? Is it a license to operate. Is it a way to increase your market share, increase your profitability? That will be the first one.

Yes. First of all, it is the right thing to do. So we need to do it because it is the right thing to do. So it is a license to operate to be sustainable and to be focused on ESG. But we really believe it can be used as a commercial driver, both to -- these are very sophisticated tools actually, very sophisticated. We have built -- we have a big team working in sustainability. So what we would see usually is that we could have longer-term contracts and that means usually better margins, definitely, more profitability, for sure. And of course, hopefully be the preferred customers. They are the preferred supplier. In some of the countries, we are the preferred supplier because we are ahead of this on a more practical way of doing it, not the nice green washing speech. But okay, this is the way to do it. Let's walk the talk and do it. This is something that is measurable, it's audited, it's certified let's do it. So we believe really we can have -- we can bundle or we can get the customer to be more linked to us, and that usually allows us for a better profitability in the period and not these negotiations every year, especially in some of the markets.

Okay. Then the second question goes to your 2028 targets. Given the new markets and new species you want to enter -- when we are in 2028, So CMD 2029, maybe, where do you see the biggest impact came from? Is it still the business as it is today, and these new things will just be small part of the new BioMar or would it really transform and grow the business?

Definitely. Well, I think I showed a slide with the split. A big part was what we're doing now. But what we're doing now already includes the new species, the shrimp. So it's not that we're going to a totally new species now. Actually, we are using the salmon knowledge and especially the shrimp knowledge to grow. So what you will see will be more influenced from shrimp, especially shrimp, some other species also, but especially shrimp in BioMar and that, by nature, carries a higher profit margin in EBIT or EBITDA.

But you already in shrimp so...

We are already in shrimp, but we are not -- what we're saying we're going to Asia, which is the ones there. That is mainly shrimp also. So it's not that we're going to some very strange species, actually different to what we did before. This time, we are using the knowledge from salmon and shrimp and going to new countries where we have identified some very nice profit pools. The consolidation part of EMEA, that's another thing. Of course, if we manage to do this consolidation in some of these 2 countries, that's also existing usually Bass and Bream sector, which also has a high risk but a higher reward for sure. And then the salmon that we see in Iceland and Canada, of course, will also contribute to that. But the new ones, which could be the Asian ones are mainly shrimp and you will see, of course, starting maybe some of them at the end of 2028. But definitely, they have a big growth potential for the fit.

Yes. Ulrik Bak from SEB. Also a few questions from my side. So this organic target you have for '28, what level of ROIC does that imply.

The organic one.

Yes, the organic one.

More than 15%.

More than 15%. And does that require additional capacity investments.

The organic. Yes, yes. It requires a capacity. This plan requires -- it is quite heavy investments for sure and not only the capacity investments. Remember, we have the climate action targets and especially the climate action, our factories that is a very, very big investment to transform our factories to different kind of synergies. So yes, it requires quite a-- but this is exactly also why we are working internally, in commercial excellence and operational excellence because, of course, we need to invest but we really believe that some of the things we are doing in stocks, in products, in different kinds of products and things that you develop over time. It is time to really narrow it and make it more efficient. So we should see, yes, more investments. But hopefully, we will see also a much better use of capital because of those improvements, and they protect the core part of our strategy.

All right. And then I recently read an interview where you, I think it was in person where you mentioned that you wanted to double revenue 5 to 6 years from now. And I think that would be prior to 2028. So is this just a...

No, no. It is 2028. As I said there, it will -- of course, again, what Jens said is true. I hope raw materials don't continue the same development, then it will be very soon. But volume and revenue in a normal way, that is our target until 2028, taking away the increase of price from raw materials, of course.

Okay. So maybe going back to the capacity. So where do you have the most free capacity currently? And where are you meeting the ceiling, so to say.

In the existing business? We don't have a lot of free capacity to be honest. Delay, there's still some free capacity, not us, but the industry. We -- fortunately, we don't have a lot of free capacity around. But if we see as a market which, of course, could influence margins, Chile is one, but not extreme. Maybe the EMEA part, which is very, very diverse. You may, there, you have Greece, Turkey, Spain, France, Denmark. So there's a lot -- there's still, as I said, small players there are integrated players that have plenty of capacity. Which is exactly where we believe we can play a role in the consolidation as it has happened in the server markets. So I would say that area definitely is the one with more overcapacity independent if we have -- we don't have a lot of overcapacity in general.

All right. Then just a final question. In Ecuador, you showed that the market has been increasing quite remarkably over the past many years and is expected to grow even more. So what has happened to the profitability level in this market as it growth? Will it just continue to be above the average of the group? Or will it, at some point, attract more players and drive profitability down?

You're talking about feed, of course?

Yes, yes. Feed, of course.

Definitely, we will not see the margins that we saw in the past. But we believe in the margins we have projected. We are already in -- I think when we acquired the factory, the company. It was a very nice company to acquire, focus on the smaller niche players. The reason we have seen also -- it's not because the market has declined a lot, but we have going into the bigger players, the bigger players, the more consolidation, they have lower margins, but definitely in a very extremely acceptable level. So we are already there. Capacity will come their competitors. So our 2 biggest competitors are already there, and there are a couple of other big ones there. But for sure, I think you will see some -- very soon some consolidation in that market of some of the local competitors. That's our impression.

Daniel Patterson from SEB. Historically, the farmers have had regular problems with sea lice or bacterial outbreaks and things. Is there anything happening here on innovative feed that can reduce the risk of this or maybe sort of hardware technology, where you see some changes here that can sort of alleviate these problems for the farmers?

Yes. Here I show part of the picture, which is what we call dynamic solutions. That's where we classified our sustainable feeds or concepts. We have other parts of BioMar, which is health or functional feed, which is addressing exactly that, where we do a lot of R&D in order to find ingredients usually to -- not to cure, but to mitigate or to prevent the diseases. Yes, there is especially for -- say, for the bacterial and viral diseases, quite effective ways of preventing not curing. Lice, I think nobody has found the bullet, the silver bullet. But I can tell you that this is a big part of our R&D budget to find something that really prevented, definitely. So there is a big part of the picture, which is functional feeds.

I have a question regarding the beyond feed. You mentioned genetics and larvae. Does this mean that you want to move from being a pure active feed manufacturer to also include genetic improvement, maybe Petrogen free, larvae? So you offer a package in the future, which will be the livestock plus the feed.

This is what is happening in some places of the world, especially in Asia. And the reason for this is especially in shrimp as I said, shrimp is less developed compared to salmon. In salmon, they already have integrated smolt production, very high quality. That's not happening in shrimp in many countries. So of course, we can wait until the industry do it. But if we really need to drive the performance of shrimp, someone need to do it, and we could play a role in that one. Of course, we will not start from scratch with genetics. That would mean either a strategic partnership or acquisition or being part of one of these groups. This is what we are exploring right now. And also on top of having this healthy input, which is your PL, we see that what is happening in pigs or chicken. When you develop a strain, which is fast growth or resistant, whatever, you can really develop a different nutrition for that kind of strength. We also see a role on that. So more and more, we really are seeing the need for a joint work, at least a joint work with the genetics and larvae and why not to take part of it if we have an opportunity.

This is a trend you've seen already in agriculture for many years that the big manufacturers will offer the entire package.

Yes. Not in every place, but in some places. Yes.

Coming back to your target of double volume, double revenue. at what cost -- what kind of investments do you need to make in order to increase 100%. And what about the profits?

Well, the profits are -- you should say...

Will they also double? When you double the volume and double the revenue, will you also double the profits?

We will -- I think the profit as I showed here will increase around 54%, something like that. In the slide that you show maybe its in the slide deck, 50%. So yes, the profit will follow. We are growing also in higher-margin sectors or areas. So yes, the profit will follow. We are growing also in higher-margin sectors or areas. That's one of the reasons. And also, the profit margins are increasing also because some of these pieces have a lower price or revenue. So it's a little bit trick but on number terms, or on millions, yes. Definitely, it is following. And the investment target we -- I don't think we can reveal it, but it's significant during the period to achieve that growth. Mostly in acquisitions, but also investments in our own factories, capacities and especially climate action that's big one, very big one.

[indiscernible] from director insurance. So you have a goal now to double volumes to [ 28% ], and I saw the organic figure was going for 2.4 million tonnes from 1.6 million, so that's significantly above the market. So if you look at the Norwegian market the last couple of years, we have some overcapacity and the profitability problems. How do you view the risk that this destroy market discipline and that we will lead to overcapacity, more or less?

That's a very, very good question. To be honest, I'm worried that there will be -- there could be a lack of capacity very soon in Norway. There's no overcapacity at all, actually, right now. And as you said, the profitability has not been the best in that market. We have improved it a lot, but I don't see investment coming very soon there. This is not announced. Having said that, we are actually quite full there, and we will still -- Norway is a very important market for us, so we will invest when needed, taking into account the market dynamics because we learned the lesson already. Definitely.

And looking out towards '28, you will significantly outgrow the market figures we saw here. How do you view the risk that this creates an overcapacity in the market? And let's say, your competitors have the same goals that you will, let's say, destroy overall market profitability.

As I showed in the slide deck, what is happening right now, actually right now in this minute, literally, customers are realizing this, are also real. The game has changed because all the sustainability programs and all, what has happened in the last period, actually, has led to customers wanting a longer-term relation. So the contracts that we have seen with ridiculous margins in the past, my personal opinion or our opinion is that they will not come back because now, all farmers are talking about longer-term relations with a lot of work from our part in sustainability. This needs to be a collaboration, actually, more than a transactional relation with a supplier. So we are seeing a big game shift in Norway right now. Yes.

Klaus Kehl from Nykredit. Also follow-up questions on some of the things that you said. You talked a lot about technology, sustainability, transforming the industry, et cetera, et cetera. And yes, great to hear. But do you have any edge compared to your peers or the peers doing exactly the same? That's my first question.

We believe we have a strong edge compared to our peers, definitely.

And how come you have a strong edge?

Because we have invested more and focused more in that for the last -- as I showed, this didn't start in BioMar yesterday. We started a long time, mainly it's because of what started in Denmark sometime. We have always been focused on Ecoline because of the need for emissions here, and that started a whole sinking in BioMar that you need to work first in eco-efficiency and then more sustainability till we see ourselves ahead of the game. But of course, the others are working in that direction. Definitely. And of course, they are trying to do the same things. We just need to stay ahead. We need to keep our competitive advantage, which, again, is back to people. This is what we believe. They will try for sure, they will try for sure to do it. We believe we have been competing with these 2, especially one, huge monsters for a long period. And we have shown that we can do it as good as or better than them. So why not? We also put a strategy period the last time that we will double volume and everyone asked the same questions. Are you sure? Yes, but we did it. So why not? We really believe that we can keep that competitive better. But of course, the bar is getting -- every day, striving for a bigger target, definitely.

And who is the big monster you just talked about?

Our 2 biggest competitors are Skretting and especially Cargill. Cargill is, of course, very big.

Okay. And how big are they compared to you?

In our sector, not that much big. But of course, I guess you know, Cargill, that's quite big as a company.

Okay. Yes. And then second question, you talked a lot about internal improvements, commercial and operational excellence. Is a lot of low-hanging fruits on these 2 levers, or is it really hard work? Or -- yes, because you need to improve your margins in order to reach your targets and at the same time, double your volume. So it -- you -- yes, there could be a lot of potential if you can improve here?

Yes. There is -- I never like to talk about low-hanging fruits because if there was, why didn't we do it? If you ask the consultants, we did this with, of course, with a very reputated strategy house. Yes, some today will talk about low-hanging fruits. And we believe that there is -- definitely, we identified very much since that we contained fast. And we are already changing it actually, because during that strategy process, we did a deep dive actually into commercial excellence. So in a way, it already started. So part of what we're seeing now on our better development, it is coming from that. But a lot of it is contract management, which had to change anyways because a lot of the contracts for many companies were not prepared for this. A lot of it is contract management. Is that a low-hanging fruit? To change it, yes, but then you have to negotiate it with customers. We have seen some acceptance, so that could be something fast to change. The rest is product life management, which we, at least, we have to do it better. It's longer term. And it's a different way of thinking in all our commercial department together with our marketing department. So it's a mix. Some will come easier and faster, and some is more a change management exercise. That's how we see it. And the same in operational excellence. We have grown a lot. We have running species, complexity. Maybe we need to really look at it not only focus on the growth, but do it better and reduce inventories, complexity, logistics costs, et cetera. That I think is, again, more a change management exercise and a really deep dive into those costs.

Last 2 questions. So the first one is, you are excelling versus your peers, as I understand, in some of these ESG areas, yet you're still #2 or 3 in most areas. So why is that?

Why is that?

If you are the best, you should also be the biggest.

No, no. I mean, we are -- in some of the places, we are the biggest, but we are -- we started from a -- they have a [indiscernible], they have a bigger footprint. They are in more places than what we are. We started -- I think we started to venture into new species later. So I would say we are later into the journey compared to one of our competitors, which is Skretting. And in the case of Cargill, remember, Cargill was the -- we were ahead because they were only on salmon almost, but then they merged into Cargill, which was also a huge footprint in many, many countries. So I would say they are more spread into many of these countries where we are going now.

But also within Salmon, you are not the biggest one, right?