ASX Limited (ASX) Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning, and welcome to ASX's results briefing for the financial year ending 30 June 2026. My name is Darren Yip, and I am the Interim CEO of ASX. I am pleased to be presenting these results today, alongside CFO, Andrew Tobin. Firstly, I would like to acknowledge the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation, who are the traditional custodians of the country where I am speaking today. We recognize their continuing connection to the land and waters, and pay our respects to elders past and present. We extend that respect to any First Nations people joining us today. Today's presentation will cover 4 areas, and then Andrew and I will take your questions. I'll begin with the key highlights from our full-year performance, before Andrew provides a detailed review of the financial and operating results. I'll then outline our FY '27 priorities and conclude with our outlook and guidance. Let's begin with highlights from FY '26. FY '26 was a landmark year for ASX, with the conclusion of the ASIC Inquiry, the settlement of ASIC's proceedings relating to the previous CHESS project, and a CEO transition. It was also a year in which we demonstrated operational resilience, as we saw record volumes across several of our markets. This highlights the importance of the investments that we are making in technology and operational resilience, both of which underpin the critical market infrastructure that we provide. On top of this, we delivered for our customers, by expanding our product and service offering, and continuing to advocate for vibrant public markets. I will talk about these elements in more detail during the presentation, starting with our FY '26 financial highlights. We delivered a strong financial result, with operating revenue increasing 13.3% to $1.25 billion, compared to the prior corresponding period. Underlying net profit after tax grew 5.2% on pcp, impacted by higher total expenses. Statutory profit decreased 3.5% on pcp following the impact of significant items. The Board has determined a fully franked final dividend of $1.047 per share, taking the total FY '26 dividend to $2.065 per share. This represents a payout ratio of 75% of underlying NPAT, compared to 85% in the prior corresponding period, which is consistent with our guidance that the FY '26 payout ratio will be at the lower end of the target range. Underlying return on equity improved to 13.7%, up 10 basis points on the pcp. The EBITDA margin decreased 180 basis points to 61%, as expense growth exceeded revenue growth. This included the costs associated with our response to the ASIC Inquiry. I'll now highlight the key milestones achieved in FY '26, before providing an update on the Accelerate Program and our technology modernization agenda. As I said earlier, FY '26 was a significant year for ASX, and we made good progress in many areas. We delivered revenue growth across all 4 businesses, reflecting the benefits of our diversified model. Listings had its strongest year since FY '22, with 100 new entities listed and more than $32 billion in quoted market capitalization added to the ASX, representing growth of 86% year-on-year. This was achieved amid market volatility, which also supported activity and revenue growth across our businesses during FY '26. We continued to make progress on our technology modernization program, with several projects delivered successfully during the year, including Release 1 of the CHESS project. These investments are enhancing operational resilience, improving customer experience and supporting future volume growth. We continued to strengthen our customer proposition through targeted investments in products and services. During the year, our Markets business launched options on gold ETFs and new peak electricity derivative contracts, providing participants with more targeted tools to manage risk, hedge exposures and trade in response to evolving demand patterns driven by the energy transition. We also advanced the launch of SOFIA, Australia's first secured overnight risk-free benchmark, supporting greater market resilience, transparency and alignment with global benchmark reforms. In our Technology and Data business, we launched a new suite of debt market activity products, providing data on repo, bond and money market activity settled through Austraclear. These products enhance market transparency and help investors and intermediaries identify trends and assess risk. We also supported several initiatives to strengthen the attractiveness and competitiveness of Australia's listed market. We published a consultation on proposed Listing Rule amendments, that seek to enhance shareholder protection for dilutive acquisitions, and changes in admission status by dual-listed entities. We also established the Advisory Group on Corporate Governance, which recently published the draft 5th edition of the Corporate Governance Principles and Recommendations for public consultation. Together, these proposed reforms are designed to support stronger governance, investor confidence and a vibrant listed market. As I mentioned earlier, there was also heightened regulatory engagement during the year, including the ASIC Inquiry and the ASIC legal proceedings relating to the prior CHESS project, both of which have now concluded. The progress we delivered across a range of strategic initiatives in FY '26, has created strong momentum heading into FY '27. Last December, we committed to a strategic set of initiatives, which included the need to reset the Accelerate Program by the end of June, in response to the publication of ASIC's Interim Inquiry Report. On 27 February 2026, we provided ASIC with our Commitments Plan, outlining how we would deliver on the commitments we made. The Accelerate Program aims to position ASX as a trusted steward of critical market infrastructure, with the risk management, resilience and operational excellence embedded across the organization. This is being driven by a multi-year, enterprise-wide transformation that is structured around 5 core work streams, with target states now agreed with ASIC and the RBA. We have also established governance as a new workstream under the program, incorporating the governance enhancements from our Commitments Plan. It also includes additional initiatives to deliver strong and effective governance arrangements that balance the interests of all stakeholders. The Accelerate program is supported by Adjacent Initiatives including data management, technology resilience and stakeholder engagement, which are key enablers of our broader transformation agenda. We are establishing the necessary frameworks, systems and processes across the organization, and then embedding them to ensure they are effective, sustainable and integrated into day-to-day operations. As the reset of Accelerate was only recently agreed with our regulators, we are predominantly in the design phase, although, we expect to transition into implementation as the program continues. In fact, we have already made progress in several workstreams. Under the Governance workstream, we have transitioned to fully independent CS Boards comprised solely of non-ASX directors, further strengthening the operational independence and governance of our Clearing and Settlement business. We have established dedicated Audit and Supervision Committees and Risk Committees of the Clearing and Settlement Boards and enhanced our Group Support Agreement. The Clearing and Settlement Board has recently appointed Lisa Wade as an independent director, further strengthening governance and supporting our regulatory commitments. Under the Risk Transformation workstream, we have revised our enterprise risk management framework and risk appetite statement, which is currently being implemented across the organization. For Culture and Leadership, we have introduced a comprehensive leadership program for all people leaders, strengthening leadership capability and supporting the delivery of our strategic objectives. Successful delivery and embedment of Accelerate and the Adjacent Initiatives in the organization, will position ASX to seek the release or reduction of the $150 million capital charge agreed under our Commitments Plan with ASIC, which is subject to their assessment and approval. Our progress against the Accelerate Program will be independently assured by Promontory. With the Accelerate Program reset now agreed, our focus is firmly on execution, delivering the agreed outcomes and embedding sustainable change across the enterprise in an enduring and efficient manner. We continued to execute on our technology modernization roadmap, with several key projects delivered over the past 6 months. In June, our TradeAccept system went live, which supports the capture of off market trades cleared through our derivatives clearing house. We also continued the rollout of upgraded network infrastructure to customer sites. This investment will deliver a more resilient and modern network foundation for our trading platforms, supporting future enhancements to the cash market trading platform and the replacement of our derivatives trading system. The replacement of our futures clearing system, a key component of our derivatives clearing project, has entered the testing phase, following the launch of the industry test environment last month. A major milestone during the year was the successful delivery of CHESS Release 1 in April, on time and within guidance. The platform provides a more resilient, secure and scalable foundation for cash market clearing, underpinned by modern cloud and data capabilities. It established enterprise technology foundations, including cloud-based hosting, data, integration and observability capabilities. We continue to progress CHESS Release 2, with the second of 5 code drops deployed to the industry test environment last month. The program is targeting completion of the primary build, by the end of the 2027 calendar year, providing sufficient time for industry testing and operational readiness, ahead of the targeted 2029 go-live. I will now hand over to Andrew to provide a detailed overview of our financial results.

Thanks, Darren. As Darren said, we delivered strong operating revenue in FY '26, demonstrating the quality of our portfolio of businesses. Operating revenue was $1.25 billion which was an increase of 13.3% compared to FY '25. Total expenses for the year was $557.4 million, growth of 21.1% on the pcp. Excluding the additional expenses relating to the ASIC Inquiry, total expenses growth was 14.4% on the pcp. Underlying net profit after tax was up 5.2% as the strong revenue growth was partially offset by higher total expenses and lower net interest income. ASX's statutory net profit after tax was down by 3.5% following the impact of significant items which includes the settlement of the ASIC legal proceedings, the CHESS Replacement Partnership Program milestone expense and the loss on the sale of our shareholding in Sympli. Our EBITDA margin was 61%, down 180 basis points for the year. And excluding the expenses related to the ASIC Inquiry, our EBITDA margin was 63.4%, up by 60 basis points. Growth in underlying earnings per share to $2.758 is broadly consistent with the trend in underlying net profit after tax. Underlying ROE generated in the year was 13.7%, up 10 basis points on the pcp. Now turning to the business unit revenue outcomes, starting with Listings. We recognize the revenue derived from initial listings and secondary raisings over 5 years and 3 years respectively, and so the revenue outcomes reported mainly reflect prior period activity. This is shown in the bar charts on the slide. Revenue of $215.2 million, representing growth of 3.5%, was primarily driven by annual listing fees and secondary raisings. Quoted market capitalization of initial listings was $32.6 billion, up 85.5% compared to FY '25 with total net new capital quoted for the year of $37.1 billion, up 4.5% compared to the pcp, reflecting stronger listings activity. Moving now to the Markets business. Revenue of $414.1 million, representing growth of 18.6% was driven by strong activity across our markets. Futures and OTC revenue growth of 18.4% was driven by record volumes in interest rate futures and higher volumes in our commodities futures business. Lower average rebates per contract and stronger electricity futures volumes were the key drivers of a $0.05 increase in the average price per contract for the year. Cash market trading revenue growth of 24.2% was driven by a 22.5% increase in the total ASX on-market value traded, primarily due to ongoing global market volatility. ASX's share of on-market, cash market trading averaged 88% for the period which was consistent with the pcp. Equity options revenue was down 1.2% reflecting lower trading activity in single stock options. Now, looking at the Technology & Data business. Technology & Data had another strong period with total revenue of $297.6 million, up 8% compared to pcp. Information Services revenue growth of 9%, was primarily driven by strong demand for data across equities and derivatives markets. Technical Services revenue was up 6.3%, primarily driven by higher demand for infrastructure in our Australian Liquidity data center and connectivity services. And finally, moving onto our fourth business segment, Securities & Payments. We saw revenue growth of 19.4% to $327.7 million in FY '26, with a strong performance from all parts of this business. Issuer Services revenue grew by 13%, driven by primary market facilitation fees and a higher number of CHESS paper statements issued, reflecting higher activity in cash markets. Equity post-trade services revenue also benefited from higher activity in cash markets, increasing by 24.3%. The is the first financial year that issuer services and equity post-trade services are subject to the new building block pricing model. Under this model, ASX's revenue requirement is derived by applying a regulated return to the efficient cost of providing these services. The revenue figures announced today are net of any over or under return experienced in the period. And we have accrued an over-recovery amount of $13 million in FY '26, which will be rebated to our customers. We provide a more detailed breakdown on this revenue calculation in the appendix of the investor presentation. Austraclear revenue grew by 15.8% compared to last year. It benefited from strong debt market activity during the period, with spot issuance growing 10.5% to $3.3 trillion. Austraclear revenue also includes the net operating loss from Sympli of $8.3 million. As previously announced, ASX disposed of its interest in Sympli late in FY '26 for a nominal amount and so we will no longer recognize our share of its operating losses in future periods. Turning now to expenses. Total expenses for the year were $557.4 million, up 21.1% on the pcp. Operating expenses relating to our response to the ASIC Inquiry were $30.8 million in the year and within our guidance range. Setting aside these additional costs, total expense growth was 14.4%, or 11.4% excluding depreciation and amortization. Employee expenses were up by 11.1% primarily due to growth in average permanent and contractor headcount from 1,312 in FY '25 to 1,393 in FY '26. The headcount increase is primarily driven by our investment in the Accelerate Program and the support and maintenance of upgraded technology platforms post-delivery. Technology expenses were higher primarily due to higher licensing fees and costs related to the technology modernization program, with more projects going live in the year. Growth in administration expenses was driven by higher consultancy spend as part of the Accelerate Program. And we reported depreciation and amortization of $67.8 million, up 40.1% as more elements of our new technology systems went live. Turning now to total expenses growth. In May we provided FY '27 total expenses growth guidance of between 18% and 21% compared to FY '26, which we reconfirm today. This includes a circa 5% contribution from depreciation and amortization. There are 3 key drivers of this growth range. This most significant factor is technology modernization, which is impacted by license fees, support and maintenance costs, and technology cost inflation as more of our technology platforms go-live and move into the cloud. CHESS Release 1, including our enterprise data and integration platforms are recent examples of this. The technology cost inflation that we are experiencing reflects industry trends and is expected to persist beyond FY '27. The second factor is elevated investment in remediation and organizational transformation which includes the Accelerate Program. As Darren mentioned earlier, this is a multi-year program with associated costs expected to continue beyond FY '27. Finally, we are making targeted investments in customer driven growth opportunities and organizational efficiency initiatives which Darren will talk about shortly. The increase in D&A in FY '27 is driven by the go-live of our technology platforms, including the full year impact of CHESS Release 1 and moving our Sydney headquarters to a new building. Now moving to capital expenditure. CapEx for the year was $179.6 million, primarily driven by our technology modernization program, with the CHESS project accounting for approximately half of the spend. As announced in May we are guiding for FY '27 CapEx to be between $180 million and $200 million which includes the impact of technology cost inflation and investments to expand our existing product and services offering in response to customer demand. A CapEx range of $170 million to $190 million is forecast in FY '28 as we continue to invest in our technology modernization program. This reflects the multi-year delivery profiles of our major projects but noting the inherent delivery risks in the technology program may impact this guidance. We also expect an average depreciation and amortization schedule of 5 to 10 years for these major projects, once they go live, noting that the CHESS project is expected to be amortized over 10 years. Moving now to net interest income. Total net interest income for the year saw a decline of 15.7% compared to the pcp, primarily driven by higher interest expense on leases. Net interest income on ASX Group cash was down by 9.7%, impacted by a lower RBA target cash rate in the period. Financing interest expense was 6.5% -- 6.4% lower, largely driven by costs relating to our corporate bond. Lease interest expense primarily relates to the lease for our new headquarters in Sydney, which commenced on 1 October last year, and equipment leases. Net interest earned on the collateral balances was down 4.3% compared to the pcp. This reflects lower average collateral balance of $11.9 billion in the year as we saw market volatility drive participant activity from directional to long or short which increased the netting of their exposure. The average investment spread on these balances was 16 basis points which was stable compared to last year. And we expect this spread to stay around the current level for the remainder of the first half of FY '27. We currently hold available cash and short-term investments of $250 million above the financial resource requirements for our licensed entities. This includes default and non-default requirements to support our clearing and settlement licenses, as well as financial resources to support the Group's 5 other licenses, including its 2 financial markets licenses. We increased our default fund contribution by $50 million during the year to support the cash equities and exchange traded options clearing business. Other financial resource requirements, which are calculated primarily based on the revenue and expenses for the licensed entities, also increased by a similar amount. We are in the process of accumulating $150 million above the 31 December, 2025, net tangible asset value by 30 June, 2027. As at the end of FY '26, we have $132.9 million of capital to be accumulated, as the current period was impacted by the significant item loss of $51.5 million. We have the capital settings to meet this target through our dividend policy. The Board has determined a final dividend of $1.047 per share which, as previously stated -- indicated, is at the bottom end of our dividend payout ratio range of between 75% and 85% of underlying NPAT. We are also applying a 2.5% discount to our existing dividend reinvestment plan. Depending on the participation rates in the DRP, we also have the flexibility to partially underwrite the DRP to achieve our capital targets. From 30 June 2029, ASX will also need to hold sufficient net tangible assets to meet the financial resource requirements for its 2 licensed financial markets, unless otherwise agreed with ASIC. These requirements may be informed by a planned upcoming review of ASIC's guidance for market licensees' financial resource requirements. ASX's balance sheet continues to be strong and positioned conservatively, noting that earlier this year S&P downgraded its long-term issuer credit rating from AA- to A+, with a stable outlook. S&P noted that the findings released in the ASIC Inquiry's final report relating to governance capability and risk management contributed to the downgrade of ASX's credit rating. We have significant financial flexibility including a $400 million corporate debt facility which is currently undrawn. And we are also planning to refinance our $275 million corporate bonds in the first half of FY '27, subject to market conditions. From a shareholder return perspective, underlying ROE for the year was 13.7%, an increase of 10 basis points. So, to summarize our results, the strong operating revenue we reported in the year reflects the strength of ASX's diversified businesses and we are seeing positive momentum in early FY '27. With that, I will hand back to Darren. Thank you.

Thanks, Andrew. I'll now outline our FY '27 priorities, before concluding with our outlook and financial guidance. We have 3 key priorities for FY '27. First, 'powering markets you can trust every day' is focused on strengthening technology and operational resilience. In FY '27, we remain focused on delivering our technology modernization and Accelerate programs, which are critical to achieving this objective. We are also increasing our investment in AI, to create value for our customers and to improve organizational efficiency and we have been encouraging adoption by investing in training and capability. During FY '27, we will explore a range of AI use cases to enhance processes, strengthen controls and lift productivity. We also plan to leverage AI to improve technology delivery and support operational resilience. Our second objective is customer-driven growth. This objective focuses on targeted growth and efficiency opportunities while enhancing our product and service offering. A key FY '27 initiative is the development of a new digital issuer platform, which aims to improve customer experience, evolve with market needs and reduce operational risk through better data capture and straight through processing. Austraclear, currently supports more than $3 trillion in securities, and processes over 3 million transactions annually. To meet growing customer demand, we have expanded Austraclear's multi-currency capabilities, and recently secured regulatory approval to support US dollar-denominated securities, with launch planned for FY '27. This enhancement will simplify US dollar issuance for Australian borrowers, and strengthen Austraclear's value proposition and create new opportunities for growth. Our third objective, shaping tomorrow is centered on partnering with our stakeholders, to drive market innovation and help shape the future of Australia's financial markets. In FY '27, we will continue exploring tokenization opportunities, including initial investments to tokenize Austraclear bonds, which would enable near real-time, 24/7 collateral movements. The benefits for customers include improving access to collateral, reducing settlement fails, and facilitating the use of Australian securities across time zones. We also plan to publish a discussion paper, to engage the market on innovation opportunities and inform the future evolution of Australia's financial market infrastructure. Turning now to outlook. Although, market volumes are difficult to predict, momentum has continued into July with strong growth across our cash and futures markets. As I said earlier, FY '26 was our strongest year for listings activity since FY '22, despite the uncertain environment. This includes 23 international listings, compared with the 5-year average of 13, demonstrating the competitiveness and international relevance of our listed market. Glencore's recent announcement that it intends to list on ASX later this year is a good example of this. This momentum has continued into the new financial year, with $8.4 billion of net new capital added to our market in July. This included the successful listing of FDC Consolidated Holdings, a building and construction company that raised more than $400 million in the largest IPO completed in calendar year 2026. Our listings pipeline for FY '27 is the strongest it has been in several years and is increasingly weighted towards larger and more diverse transactions. Momentum in our cash market has also remained strong, with total on market value traded in July increasing 12% compared to pcp. Market volatility continues to support trading activity and is driven by geopolitical events and shifts in central bank policy expectations, both domestically and globally. We continue to see growth in auction activity, particularly during index rebalancing events, which reflects strong flows from passive investment managers. We also continued to see strong growth in derivatives activity, with futures, and options on futures volumes in July up 20% on pcp. Market conditions remain supportive, with activity across the rates complex driven by central bank policy, ongoing debt issuance and macroeconomic uncertainty. Moving to guidance. Today, we reconfirmed the FY '27 expense guidance provided in May, which reflects ongoing investment in the organization driven by our strategic priorities. Total expense growth is expected to be between 18% and 21%, while operating expense growth, excluding depreciation and amortization is expected to be between 13% and 16%. We continue to expect FY '27 capital expenditure, to be in the range of $180 million to $200 million, with FY '28 expected to be in the range of $170 million to $190 million. As previously outlined, the majority of this investment is directed towards our technology programs, and our broader modernization agenda. The dividend payout ratio has been set at the lower end of our target range for the final FY '26 dividend, with a discounted DRP operating. We expect this to continue for at least the next dividend, in the first half of FY '27. Finally, underlying ROE remains a key measure of performance, as we balance investment in our strategic initiatives with the delivery of sustainable growth. We continue to target an underlying ROE of between 12% and 14% over the medium term. Last year was an important year for ASX, and we enter FY '27 with strong momentum, as we continue our transformation and pursue new opportunities. Looking ahead, Anthony Attia will commence as Managing Director and CEO at the beginning of next month. Anthony brings decades of experience across global exchange markets in Europe and the United States, spanning the full value chain of exchange operations, and we are pleased to welcome him to ASX. Thank you and I will now invite questions.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question today comes from Ed Henning, CLSA.

I have 2. Firstly, could you just help us with some of the building block model and some of the inputs? For example, should we think the OpEx will be in line with the group OpEx as one? And any other help you can give us there in the first question, please?

Yes. Thanks, Edmund. I might grab that question. So you may have seen in the appendix to the pack today, I think it's Slide 42, where we've got the sort of the component parts of the BBM model. And we'll sort of publish those inputs on a 6-monthly basis. In terms of the go-forward assumptions, one assumption is around the CapEx that's spending -- that we're spending and sort of the spend on CHESS will continue to go into the sort of the regulators sort of capital base, but also the expenses as well. And we'll publish the expenses going forward as well for the full year from a budget perspective to let you sort of follow along in terms of the BBM model.

Can you give us any help now, like, for example, your operating expenditure, should we think of roughly in line with the group expenditure?

I think that's a good guide, Ed, at this point in time. But as I mentioned, we'll provide sort of further data points along the way as well.

Okay. That's good. And then just a second question. You obviously went through the cost growth and the 3 buckets that's in for next year. One thing you didn't touch on, though, was growth initiatives. How much of that cost is focused on growth initiatives beyond the tech modernization and the efficiency matters?

Yes. There is an allocation towards growth initiatives, but it's not the lion's share of the sort of the growth in the expense base. It's really the tech modernization, the continuation of that and also the Accelerate program is the primary drivers of the growth. But we are focused on sort of opportunities to sort of customer-driven growth opportunities also, but it's not a large part of the makeup of that expense growth.

Your next question comes from Kieren Chidgey from UBS.

Andrew, can I just sort of circle back to Ed's question on the clearing settlement Issuer Services BBM model. $13 million of rebates this year. Can you actually -- I can't find anywhere what the sort of total revenue sitting under that model was for '26. A, can you give us that number? And then b, in a scenario where equity market turnover is flat next year, would it just be sort of whatever that number is plus the $13 million you would earn?

Yes, sure, Kieren. So in the slide, we do give you sort of the inputs. It doesn't have the revenue number per se, but you can back solve into that revenue number to determine that $13 million rebate amount. In terms of the go-forward position, it really depends on volumes. And so it's a bit theoretical to sort of speculate around where that lands going forward. We've seen a strong month of July, so we're off to a good start, but we don't know where that's going to land for the full year. And so we need to sort of see that play out before we get to a position of determining whether there's an over or under recovery in the year ahead.

Yes. I appreciate sort of the answers there on trading. But if turnover were flat year-on-year, I guess the question really goes back to the growth in this revenue allowance in '27 based on sort of your projected OpEx budget, the asset base, all that stuff, would that entitle you under a flat turnover scenario to retain that full $13 million rebate in the year ahead?

Potentially because the things that are going to increase the cost base, things like additional CapEx spend will increase the revenue requirement. And so that may be the outcome, Kieren. Does that make sense to answer your question? So expenses are going up in the FY '27 period. The CapEx that we're spending is going up. So both of those factors will determine a higher revenue requirement under the BBM model. And so if we held it flat, it just depends on what is the impact over the full year, whether that would absorb the full $13 million rebate or would it push it into some other outcome.

Okay. And I mean, you said you will be publishing sort of the more wholesome drivers, including the cost budget around that. When will that be released and sort of where?

Yes. So the cost budget will come out sort of in about October. It needs to go sort of through the various approval processes, and that will be made public. And then every 6 months, we'll give you an update around sort of the CapEx components and the regulatory sort of asset base of the BBM model.

All right. Okay. Secondly, can I just ask on sort of Austraclear, I guess, the drivers in some of the growth there that have been quite strong in the period. And I think there was sort of a comment flagging some additional product opportunity there. Can you just unpack sort of what's been happening there? And also, how you're thinking about Austraclear from a systems point of view, just given I understand the technology there is getting fairly old as well.

Yes. I might just start off and hand to Andrew, if there's any other things to add there. I think your question was regarding some of the developments we've done there. So the introduction of U.S. dollar issuance obviously adds more collateral flexibility for our participants. But the other thing we are thinking about there is around tokenization of bonds and extending the hours of that service overnight. So that will give us some entry way to sort of foundational capabilities in this space. In terms of sort of, I think, your question around the system, look, it is absolutely a focus of ours in terms of the resilience that you're right. That is a system that we are obviously doing a lot of constant service releases at the moment, and we continue to invest in that from an operational resilience perspective.

Okay. And is that sort of part of the planned sort of CapEx profile that the group has outlined out to '28 at this stage?

Yes, it is.