C. E. Info Systems Limited (MAPMYINDIA) Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the C.E. Info Systems Limited, MapmyIndia Q2 FY '23 Results Conference Call, hosted by Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Shobit Singhal from Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers. Thank you and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Lizann. Good morning, everyone. On behalf of Anand Rathi, we welcome you all to Q2 FY '23 Conference Call of C.E. Info Systems or MapmyIndia. We have with us today, Mr. Rakesh Verma, Co-Founder and Chairman of the company; Mr. Rohan Verma, CEO and Executive Director of the company. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Rakesh Verma for his opening remarks. Post that, we will open the floor for Q&A session. Thank you and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Sobhit and thanks to Anand Rathi Group for leading this analyst call and welcome all of you who are participating in this call and good morning. This is Rakesh Verma. I'll give you some opening remarks with some basic things for everyone to understand, on what the company has been doing and what the company is doing and what the company is generally planning to do, going forward. But I need to first definitely let you know, while you might be having the investor presentation in your hand, or you might have seen it or some of you may not have seen it. So I would like to read out a few opening statements. In the Q2 Fiscal Year '23, MapmyIndia delivered a good performance with quarterly revenue up 35% year-on-year to an all-time high of INR 76 crores. H1 Fiscal Year '23, revenue was up 41% to INR 141 crores. EBITDA was up 32% year-on-year to INR 61 crores, EBITDA margin was at 43%, PAT went up 8% year-on-year to INR 50 crores and PAT margin at 32%. Now, while we achieved our EBITDA expectations and the way we are operating this business, I would like to also comment on some of the things that we have recently done and what would be its benefit going forward. We really made three sets of organic investments in Q2 FY '23 or let's say in the half year that will help accelerate the company's growth in revenue and earnings in the future. Please note my statement, earnings in the future. These three investments are set of organic growth or organic investments with an eye towards the future, balancing both short and long-term goals for growth and earnings with the ultimate objective of further accelerating the company's future growth in revenues and earnings. First, in growing the scale of our recently acquired IoT-led business, Gtropy. I would like to address this first because C.E. Info Systems owns 76% plus of this IoT company. The focus has been on a very large multibillion dollar addressable market of INR 20 plus crores existing vehicles on road in India, which can benefit from Gtropy and MapmyIndia's combined IoT-led goods and logistics and people mobility SaaS. So this has been one. To further elaborate on this Gtropy, I would like to share with you that, when we make the investments, acquisitions for our future both near term and long term, we keep an eye on how to acquire more and more customers in the B2B, B2C, and B2B2C business without sacrificing our general financial discipline. We have shared one slide in our investor presentation, which shows very clearly that, while in the consolidated business of the company, which includes Gtropy, we have achieved an EBITDA margin of 42.8% during the half year fiscal year '23 on a revenue from operations of INR 141 crores. But if you see our consolidated business without the Gtropy the EBITDA margin is 50% on a revenue from operation of INR 124 crores. What I'm trying to add is also a PAT margin of 37% without the Gtropy acquisition as against 32% with Gtropy. Now first, let me share with you, that Gtropy is nothing but an IoT business. MapmyIndia has been in IoT business for a while for many years. In order to accelerate the growth of IoT business because of the huge multibillion-dollar addressable market in India, we felt the need that a specific bandwidth for the IoT business is created within MapmyIndia. We had a choice of either hiring our own people internally or bringing in a company like Gtropy. We evaluated that and we felt that acceleration can happen much better by acquiring Gtropy. Now what is the impact of that? The impact of that is while the map data and the core business of IoT, which MapymyIndia was doing before, created a EBITDA of almost 50%. The net effect Of EBITDA came down to 43%, with Gtropy being there. The fundamental thing here to understand is, the core business of the company has been creating cash profitability in a big way. Now, either we could have continued with that or we had to look at the future accelerated growth. For that future accelerated growth, this Gtropy has been acquired. The scale at which Gtropy ultimately will also give us the similar kind of EBITDA, which the core business was doing, will take some time. And when I say sometime, I mean the time of six months to two-three years. And that is our objective, that's how the management of this company is working. So, we are very excited about it and we feel that we have done the right thing by bringing in Gtropy on board. So the second thing also important to understand, it's not an inorganic acquisition. It is very much part of organic growth of the company. Everything that is reported in the consolidated financial statement should be taken as part of the organic growth of the company only and not as an inorganic part. Secondly, when you see a dip in the quarter for EBITDA, there have been a few other good reasons. While on one side, we are building up, scaling up our business which reflects in our revenue growth, we also felt that the need that our marketing activities to build awareness of MapmyIndia and Mappls brand is very critical for the business. So we did accelerate our expenses on the marketing front in the Q2. We also invested money in building up the product portfolio like the RealView, which you are hearing, like Metaverse, so these are all the expenses in the marketing side as well as on the product portfolio side, which will reap rewards in terms of new customer acquisition and new use cases adoption. Thirdly, the cutting-edge products and platform development, which will further expand use cases addressable markets, growth engines and moats for MapmyIndia Mappls. So finally, also what we have done is we have invested INR 10 crores for a 26% stake in a company Kogo, a gamified Social travel commerce platform, which will open up new markets and new use cases for us, and we are very excited about this strategic investment in Kogo. With these words and opening statements, I would like to hand over to Rohan Verma to explain more in detail as to how the business has performed and how he looks at the future.

Good morning, everybody. This is Rohan Verma, CEO and ED of MapmyIndia. So Q2 was a pretty exciting quarter for us. I mean, in terms of lots of action on various fronts, and I'll kind of go through that. We've ended H1 FY '23 on a strong note. So if you look at revenue growth, it was broad-based, for H1 FY '23 versus H1 FY '22 as we've always said, MapmyIndia’s has been annual basis, look at us year-to-date, you will understand us better, given that we are in the MaaS, PaaS, SaaS space where it's all about licensing or annual consumption or API transactions, etc. So A&M revenue is up 45% automotive and mobility tech and C&E, which is consumer tech and enterprise digital transformation is up 29% on the market side. And on the product side Map and data was up 32%, and platform and IoT was up 49%. As Mr. Verma explained, our newly acquired Gtropy business had grew fast in Q2. It actually doubled revenue versus Q1 FY '23. And as scale and subsequent years’ high-margin SaaS income of Gtropy will kick in. It's an IoT-led business, so what happens is initial margin gets compressed because you're selling a device, but what happens is in subsequent years it’s high-margin SaaS revenue. And besides the fact that acquiring customers which Gtropy is helping us -- or with Gtropy we're able to acquire customers for the particular use case of logistics SaaS, or mobility SaaS. We can upsell our entire range of products to such organizations, like I'll talk about later, cement companies, dairy companies and other organizations that Gtropy is bringing into MapmyIndia’s fold. Then on the marketing side, we calibrate our marketing expenses. In this quarter, we calibrated it towards increasing the awareness of our MapMyIndia’s Mappls brands and range of products, whether it's for our maps, whether it's for our different set of APIs, our drone-based solutions, our IoT solutions. And the idea is to create more awareness and adoption amongst customers for different verticals and different use cases. So that was an important activity that we undertook In this quarter. The good thing is, our Swadeshi Mappls app and platform, meaning not just B2B and B2B2C, where we are very strong and intend to be very focused and strengthen ourselves even more on, but even the B2C side, the Swadeshi Mappls app that we have is making further in-roads. And that's in conjunction with strong government-led partnerships, and I'll talk about that. This is an interesting point where very organically India is on a Athmanirbhar journey and inflection point. So it's working in our favor. As Mr. Verma said, on the product and platform side, we are investing in building our RealView 360-degree and Metaverse 3D maps. So let me explain what this is and why it's important and why it's quite different than what the typical Metaverse that people are understanding. This is creating the next generation of maps, which is not just 2D, but 360-degree and 3D. That opens up a whole new range of use cases. Of course, it makes 3D delivery to the doorstep on e-commerce delivery to the doorstep, meaning, even in 3D better. All it gives enterprises who want to do site selection of where they should open up retail outlets by giving them the RealView of that area, the 360-degree area view better, or if you look at the now back to exciting real-estate market, where 360-degree and 3D of that area gives people better decision-making or on the government side for infrastructure planning or smart city, or just generally for Consumer mapping and navigation, the next-level experience of AR or VR based on real world. That's what is opening up for us across use cases. And again, we have many-many, so that's what's exciting. But also we invested in our developer APIs, our NCASE suite, our digital transformation platform and consumer-facing Mappls app. Now what Kogo is allowing us to do is, adding on these set of components of gamification, social meaning, social or community travel-related content, planning itineraries and commerce. Where you can book travel-related itineraries or products or services into our maps and navigation. Now this is aligned quite nicely with what our automotive OEM customers are looking for the next generation of connected navigation services or connected travel or location-based services. So this strengthens our use cases and additional offerings to OEMs and keeps differentiating us from whatever else options or substitutes or competitors that could possibly be there. Besides of course, further opening of B2C opportunities for our company and Kogo combined in the future. So, with that kind of I'll point to other things. Financials, Mr. Verma has kind of talked about the headline numbers, revenue and EBITDA. A note on the PAT, we had lower other income in this quarter and the effective tax rate was higher. So that affected PAT margins and PAT growth also year-on-year. And then I think the next point I wanted to make was on the consolidated revenue by markets and product line, where on A&M or C&E, as we've said before, we have a Very strong open order book. We started the year with INR 699 crores of open order book. And so, we are working through that order book and hence, revenue is the outcome of that, besides new sales and new order wins, which will impact the future revenue. So whether it's the automotive companies which are doing more sales and expected to continue to do more sales in the rest of the year, our revenue has grown well. Q2 year-on-year is not a good comparable in general, year-to-date is a good comparable for MapMyIndia as a business, but specifically for automotive, the previous year Q1, meaning FY '22 Q1, because of lockdowns. There was a spillover effect on Q2 and hence, doing a Q2, Q2 comparison is probably not useful for A&M. And on the other side, our IoT sales to vehicles and fleet owners or fleet operators has increased on the back of, as Mr. Verma said, bandwidth focus, expanded distribution, and that will continue to scale, including enterprise sales reach. On the C&E side, which has grown 29%, we are seeing broad-based growth across our consumer tech companies, traditional enterprises, even the public sector and government, who are all consuming more and more map data, APIs, what our digital transformation platform is, which is unique in the sense that it brings the power of location and geospatial to it and, of course, now IoT solutions as well. And -- Map and data revenue and platform and IoT revenue are scaling up quickly. So, I'll end with just two more things. One is that we've had a lot of customer wins across A&M and C&E. On automotive OEMs, we've had a new large four-wheeler EV OEM sign up, and you'll see the effect of that in the years to come and bunch of market-leading vehicles like Gloster and all of those of MG have gone live. Many-many businesses like cement companies, dairy companies, fintech companies, e-com, FMCG, health tech, even voice assistant or real-estate retail companies, many new customer acquisitions. And on the government side road construction equipment for state road trans departments IoT tracking of that or civil supplies, distribution’s, IoT tracking or map-based platforms for tourism, safe city and drone solutions for energy company. So, a lot of good customer wins and a lot of strategic partnerships with government, which we've highlighted in the investor presentation and in our social media.

Thank you, Rohan. I think I'll hand it back to Shobit.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Shobit Singhal from Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers. Please go ahead.

I have two questions. On our C&E side, which is our fastest growing business segment given the base. So, in the first half FY '23, we have grown at just 29-30% against 40-45% historically. So what are the issues that we are facing here? And the second question is on the margin side. Given you have started investing in brand building and other two areas, so how should we look at our margins going forward? So earlier, you have guided the range of around 35% to 45%. So is There any new guidance which you want to highlight?

First, let me help answer your second question. The 35% to 45%. I think we have achieved 40% in the half-year. Again, I will say, always look at us on a year-to-date. In H1 this year, I think we have achieved 43%. So that's pretty much within, not only within the range of 35% to 45%, it is closer to 45% only. I think probably you want to get and nail us down, if we can give a lower band rather than a 10% band, if that's in your mind, let me help you in a very simple way. This percentage and the revenue also have to be linked. When we try to accelerate the topline, we may end up spending in two ways one, either through the IoT business as one part and the second part is also spending certain money in the product development in the marketing expenses. Now we calibrate this to ensure that if the topline, let's say, has grown 40% this time in the half year, if it grows very -- keeping that in mind, we also plan our expenses. Now 35% to 45%, I know it's a wide range. If you can think of something, if you want me to nail it down, I would say that we definitely do not want to be below 40% in the EBITDA side. That's not something which we are striving this year. We definitely are striving in that 40% to 45% area.

And on the question on C&E, see, our revenue every quarter is a function of our order book. So revenue, like we have said, in C&E especially can be a bit lumpy. So you have to look at what The order book that we have and when the go-lives of such solutions happen and then the revenues start kicking in. So nothing to really worry about on C&E. It is just a function of what the order book was and is. In fact, it's very heartening to see that we are continuously acquiring more and more customers, which are all blue chip, all the good names across categories of consumer tech or traditional enterprises across verticals or on the public sector. So, I would just Say keep watching out on how the overall year stacks up for C&E, but it's in a good shape.

The next question is from the line of Sameer Dosani from ICICI Prudential AMC. Please go ahead.

Just want to understand, Gtropy’s revenue is included in A&M or is it in C&E?

It's in both. Actually it depends on the particular use case, is it enabling an enterprise digital transformation? Or is it enabling a mobility use case? So, you'll start seeing the effect of that in Both.

So if I were to see H1 FY '23 A&M without Gtropy, what could the number be?

Sorry?

A&M revenue is 72% in H1 FY '23, what would be the revenue excluding Gtropy here?

It would still be -- it would still a -- specific number, we can either get back or we don't have to get into the specific number at least on this call. But given that automotive sales have grown, our A&M in general also has grown even ex-Gtropy.

Exactly, so that was my question. We are majorly on PV side, right, passenger vehicle side. So if you look at passenger vehicle sales, H1 FY '23 versus FY '22, it has been 40% growth. So I want to understand what was our growth on excluding Gtropy here, because...

Yes, it could be similar. I mean it would be similar. So...

So we would be more or less tracking this market growth only, right?

Yes, that's right.

Also the new OEM added, how big is this OEM that you've added? Can you give some color?

We don't want to be specific till the time they don't go live with the solution. It's not too far they go live in the next six months, but definitely it's in the top four OEMs.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And also to understand the C&E market, what is the longer-term growth that you should understand? And how should we look at the growth profile of this business at the C&E side?

I wish I can give you an exact answer. But what we always think of is how our total business grows. It really doesn't matter so much to us between A&M and C&E in general, excluding the devices part of it. So, if the overall growth is happening in a healthy manner within the range as we talk about, the profitability and the growth is happening the way it has happened 40% like that. Probably, we should not get too much mixed up between the C&E and A&M then. Currently Also, it is maintained at almost, 50%, 50%, if you see the numbers, almost.

Yes. I mean, each of them have their growth vectors, as we've said before. Automotive is tracking the overall New vehicle sales and the adoption of NCASE within that, those are both on growth vectors. Then mobility and some part of C&E, which is driven by the logistics-based digital transformation is tracking that existing base of vehicles and logistics optimization market, which is, again, quite large and consumer Tech is basically more and more apps, which are consuming APIs of ours and enterprises, which are generally digitally transforming. Enterprise digital transformation includes the government digitization that is happening in a big way, what the Honorable Prime Minister also talks about. And so you've seen a lot of wins in the last year. Based on our platform on the central government, state government and local government or Smart city level as well. So all of these are slightly different growth vectors, and each of them has a lot of promise. It's about how much and how fast and how much we want to and we can invest in increasing while maintaining some fiscal discipline, which is that balance that we look to strike.

Just to understand C&E, how much percentage or how big is the portion that is API dependent, and how much is your other revenue? Because in API basically you get it on per order or per use basis. So if you can split that? is that possible?

I would say it's roughly half and half. I mean just to give you some figure.

Okay. Because if I look at the overall growth right, excluding Gtropy, I think last year was around 30-32%. Now it has normalized to 25% for H1 so that is what...

If you look at Gtropy business, Gtropy as a stand-alone company, the growth, which we've said doubled in Q2 versus Q1. A lot of it is also attributed to MapmyIndia’s existing IoT business that we are combining with them. So, if you look at MapmyIndia’s organic business it continues to grow. Adding on Gtropy, helps us create a focus and bandwidth within the company or the group companies, so that different business leaders and different organizations can focus on achieving on their addressable market. So overall, also the companies are doing well, but Gtropy will further help accelerate that.

So, if I look at only Gtropy, what will the margin profile that is sustainable after maybe two years, as you said, that is a SaaS revenues or the margin will come back. So what is the kind of growth profile of this business? And what is the margin profile that we should expect on this basis after the certain scale?

Yes. See, there are two components to the business. One is the device-led sales, the other is the pure SaaS sales.

And the third is a device-led SaaS.

Yes. Device led SaaS. So, the revenue mix will evolve for the Company. The more we are on pure play SaaS and no device, of course, it's a very, very high margin. I mean like our core existing business. Then device-led SaaS is important because devices get your foot in the door. Now when you are part of a logistics company's operation, let me just say like a cement company, where they are every day tracking their shipments using your device and the SaaS associated with it, then you become a core part of their operations, the stickiness Is very high. And so that's why you're seeing cement companies, dairy companies, logistics organizations continuously use us. So the revenue mix over the course of next two, three years will determine a kind of a stable EBITDA level. And that's what we are working with them. We are focusing our efforts on which markets segments to focus on. And specifically do you want to talk about or you want to wait?

I think if you're asking more on this topic of IoT and related, as I said in the beginning itself, that the core business of Map Data based products and platform, also along with that, there was IoT also that was a product and platform based less of devices and there was a certain level of growth happening in that similar to what has happened in the past. What we felt was that device led, if we create the business, the growth will accelerate at a much faster pace. And the moment we enter with the devices with a customer, particularly B2B customer, the SaaS automatically kicks in, it's just a matter of some time because it may be 6 months later or 12 months later, and that SaaS gives us back the same kind of profitability, which our existing business was doing. So that's the way you should look at it. In any case Without that IoT thing, the growth has been 30% plus.

Sir, just to understand this business more, so once you sell a device let's say, per 100, what is the kind of SaaS revenue that kicks in every year? Would it be 15% or 20%? if you can just -- I just want to understand more. So, if you're selling in year one, the investment of the device is INR 100 the next year, what would be the SaaS revenue on this tracking device? Would it be 10, 20, 50? If You can just...

It could be in the range of 25 to 50, maybe 33, 40, I'm just give you an idea of the SaaS yearly revenue from that device.

And then on this device, we are making less margin right? Okay. And then SaaS would be high margin that will compensate.

Yes, that is what is pressing the margin in the beginning.

The next question is from the line of Vimal Gohil from Alchemy Capital Management Private Limited.

I hope I'm audible.

Yes.

Yes. Great. Sir, just one clarification. This quarter or rather for the first half of the year, I think Gtropy has done the revenue of how much? Would it be closer to INR 2 crores, if I'm not wrong?

Around INR 24 crores is the first half.

Sorry, INR 24 crores, sorry, yes, I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. And this number in FY '21 was around INR 8 crores, if I'm not wrong, right?

Gtropy's own business, which they gave. For the entire...

The INR 24 crores is the entire IoT base that you're referring to, right? I'm just talking about the stand-alone Gtropy business, a like-to-like revenue which you reported in FY '21, which was INR 8 crores, how much was that in H1 of ’23?

Actually, just to give you more depth into the accounting side. Out of that INR 24 crores or INR 25 crores with Gtropy shown as a revenue, around INR 8 crores went to build MapMyIndia. Because the business came from MapMyIndia to Gtropy for execution. So, if you look at it that way, and then MapMyIndia might have built to the customers for INR 10 crores with its own margin. So, the net-net for Gtropy becomes the INR 16 crores without MapMyIndia business, that's another way to look at it. it.

In the first half...

In the first half.

Recovery, for the full year.

Last year, on the -- without MapmyIndia.

Got it. So basically, we've already doubled our revenues in Gtropy in the first half itself?

The benefit to Gtropy has been with MapMyIndia backing them, so they have the muscle to accelerate their own growth. Plus, for MapMyIndia benefit, even if you look at MapMyIndia’s first half revenue, our IoT revenue from first half it was relatively lower. So that also benefit we have got. Overall, the IoT revenue has accelerated quite quickly in that first six months.

Got it. Sir, and just on Gtropy, in your opening remarks, you commented that Gtropy is expected to sort of improve EBITDA? Or I'm not sure if you meant that it would come back to company level EBITDA, but you said that it will take around six months to two years. So that's a pretty wide band again to sort of make to understand. So with Gtropy, when you say six months to two years, are you talking of Gtropy coming to company-level EBITDA or it will stay, because it has a bit of hardware component. It will be at a slightly lower range in terms of profitability, going forward, structurally?

Structurally, it is bound to have a little lower level of profitability than the other one. But then whatever that level of profitability is, will add on to the overall profitability of the company in absolute terms. If you look at the PAT as absolute number, the margin if you are thinking as PAT as a percentage margin of the revenue, yes, the not PAT so much, let me tell you, as a margin we have seen the effect in this quarter also and this half year also. So, what looks like this quarter, or this half year particularly is something which is not out of line for the next two years. It will be a journey, definitely. What is happening is, when you sell the device Today and the SaaS kicks in for that six months later, the SaaS revenue now starts giving you a huge EBITDA because the operating leverage kicks in for them. But that six months again, they will sell more devices, whose EBITDA will happen, again, SaaS revenue will happen again six months later. So that is how you keep building the SaaS revenue with some lag.

Got it, sir. Now, my question is on your other expenses line item, which I think thank you so much for providing the breakup this time and I hope this continues. Now what I noticed is that sales and promotional expenses have doubled even on a quarter-on-quarter basis. Now was this on expected lines for the company? That is point number one. And if you now are spending -- if your spending intensity has increased substantially, would your own growth estimates, That is top line growth estimates would increase? Or is it that your top line growth estimates remain the same, it's just that your spending intensity or your sales and promotion intensity will have To be more because of maybe competition increasing, or it's just that the business now requires slightly more to sort of grow that much. So how would you look at that?

Okay. First of all, let me address this by saying that whatever the budget we prepare for the year and then we move it down to quarter-by-quarter internal management control, we stay within that. How do we stay within that? For the quarter, internally beginning of the quarter, we try to see what could be the revenue that quarter and what would be the EBITDA and then look at how much we should spend also on the marketing expenses. Marketing expenses can be unlimited also. I mean, we can spend INR 100 crores of rupees and try to get a lot of new businesses, but whether it is wise or not in the current scenario of a listed company, we also get concerned about it. And hence, we say that, okay, we have talked about 35% to 45% EBITDA, can we stay within that range or whether 40% plus? Can we stay within that range. How much money is available? That's what Rohan was talking about calibrating our marketing expense.

And also -- so we use these opportunities when we calibrate to increase at least to basically create awareness, and future demand for, let's say, new set of use cases and so the revenue impact of that may come immediately, that is fine or it may create something that will be a growth engine for the future. So I would just say that, look, we have a pretty optimistic and believe that there's a very large set of addressable markets for MapmyIndia ahead of us, in the medium and long term. And if we do the judicious investments at the right time, then we'll be well positioned to take care of that. I mean, to make sure that we can capture that when the market is in front of us. So, we are careful with it and we do different types of investment in marketing for different objectives. Some could be brand-related, some could be promotion of a particular set of products or new set of use cases-related.

Sorry to interrupt Mr. Gohil. Sir, may we request that you return to the question queue. There are participants waiting for their turn. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Anmol Garg from DAM Capital.

Actually, I had a couple of questions. So firstly, I wanted to ask that we have been highlighting various initiatives with the government, so what kind of revenue can be expected out of this? And can any large contracts also be expected from the government initiatives that we are taking?

See, there's multiple reasons why we partner with the government. And really the end objective is to be part of population scale platforms. The government has big plans for digital transformation and Geospatial and even IoT, maps, the areas that we are in, can play a critical role. And each partnership is slightly different also. Like ULIP, which is the Unified Logistics Interface Platform government announced it with National Logistics Policy and Honorable Prime Minister even visited us all to see what all we are doing and then tweeted about it. This is going to be UPI for logistics. Meaning, every logistics transaction in the country will eventually get digitized and put on ULIP and we are the mapping solution around that. So it becomes an interesting thing that as this scales, I mean, this is a little bit corollary to ONDC, which is slightly different area, and you're seeing ONDC take shape in the country as the next part of India Stack. ULIP is also going to take part in the next part of India Stack. So that will have an impact going future. The other part is what we've done with Uttar Pradesh Police. This really aims to address 26 crores citizens or commuters within Uttar Pradesh 20% of India's population are being told and promoted about Mappls app and Mappls platform has been the de facto official Swadeshi maps and navigation app, through which the UP police is also through us giving the traffic advisories and road safety information and taking the reverse feedback in fixing. There will be a lot of allied revenue that will come as we start getting embedded in smart cities and traffic and police and emergency response that will come as a result of that. And last, at a state level is what we are doing with Delhi Government for EV charge station site selection using our geospatial analytics platform. Just recently, in fact, Delhi Government invited many many PSUs who all want to get -- all the oil and gas companies, PSUs who want to get into EV, not in the distribution companies, the infra companies around EV, they had invited them all and got MapmyIndia to present what work we are doing and asked them to collaborate with us, which will generate revenue for us. So these are different areas, different geographies and different government levels we are participating in. Finally, we are winning already contracts with the government and that we have put in the customer wins like a State Road Transport Corporation or civil supplies or state roadways department or tourism department of a state or safe cities. So that continues to be the near-term revenue and the other partnerships are serving different needs for the company for future.

Just to dwell up a little more into this. So you highlighted about the ULIP program and it's a pretty large program from the government. So, what kind of opportunity is this particularly from your point of view.

See, we don't want to comment on the specific revenue opportunity till the time ULIP is still in beta phase. And the government with come out with tips kinda of specific policies and transactions and revenue models around ULIP. So, I think it's a bit premature for us to talk about revenue specifically that will come from it to us, but it's good that we are deeply embedded in the platform as the Map APIs.

Sure. And secondly...

Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Garg, may we request that you return to the question queue, there are participants waiting for their turn. The next question is from the line of Moez Chandani from Centrum Broking.

My first question was on the C&E segment. So are you seeing any sort of slowdown from your fintech and e-commerce clients, given that there is a funding slowdown in those segments? So are you seeing any slowdown there?

No, no, not at all. I mean, see, we are riding the consumption wave. More and more consumption is happening. More and more e-commerce transactions, fintech transactions are happening in the country. So we are riding the consumption wave. That is, of course, secularly growing.

If you're relating to a slowdown in our growth in the C&E compared to some previous numbers, I don't know if you are relating something like that. Remember, always we -- there are some lumpy revenue booking that happens in C&E.

Sure. Got it. Also, I wanted to understand, are you seeing greater traction in the EV 2-wheeler space, because that's a space that's growing pretty fast. So that -- if MapmyIndia is gaining traction there?

Yes, yes, hugely. I think pretty much almost all EV OEMs, not all, I would not make that statement, because not everybody has come out -- yes, majority of EV OEMs are -- 2-wheelers are looking at this end case. We are already there in a few and more have signed up, so they will go live soon. So yes, this is definitely a strong space for us.

The next question is from the line of Nitin Sharma from MC Pro Research.

Would like to understand more about the 3D/360-degree maps. Does the offer to customers differ pricing-wise? Some understanding on the overall potential of it.

See, as we have explained before, our map data is overall, what is this? It's a 4D digital map twin of the real world. Meaning we are representing the physical world, physical real world digitally through our map data. This enables all sorts of use cases, whether for e-commerce or fintech or government planning, or navigation or tracking, etc. Now with 360-degree panoramic views as well as the 3D Metaverse, 3D Metaverse maps what we are able to do is, for example let's take real-estate. Now anybody wanting to do a real estate purchase would love to see how the view will look like from the flat on a particular floor that they are going to buy, and in that perspective, all the 3D of the neighboring areas would be very relevant besides the 3D of the tower and society, etc. Or similarly, the 360-degree view of How the area, as they are driving around, looks like will help them. So that's one use case. Like that, I can say there are many-many use cases as I talked about it in the beginning. The revenue model around these are similar to our maps in our APIs. So it's part of our MaaS, SaaS PaaS offering, it's just a more advanced solution that enables us to continue to offer kind of bestin-class, first-in-class unique solutions that keeps us ahead. So similar kind of revenue model for us going forward. For these 3D and 360-degrees, just that we are at the cutting edge disruptive level of innovation here.

The next question is from the line of Srishti Jain from Arthya Investments.

Can you just help me with the new order bookings for H1 FY '23 or the total order book as on H1?

See, we talked about annual new order bookings and open order book. This is a year-end number that we talked about, because order bookings are throughout the year and can get bunched up here or there. What I can tell you at least qualitatively is many-many customer wins we've had with a new orders that we have booked across A&M and C&E. And we have kind of talked about it in our investor deck, whether on the large four-wheeler EV OEM and these are just Q2 related Q1. We have anyways talked about previously, are cement companies, dairy companies, fintech, I think I have referred to it earlier in the call as well. So lots of order wins and the pipeline is also looking strong. So I would just say, wait for the year-end numbers around this.

We'll move on to the next question. That is from the line of Sameer Dosani from ICICI Prudential AMC.

Just one question. So without Gtropy, you have disclosed H1 numbers. So here, the margin has moved up to 50% now, right? So how -- is this kind of sustainable, because we'll have to do some investments also. So what should be -- if I look at without Gtropy, what would be that -- looking like...