Demant A/S (DEMANT) Earnings Call Transcript

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the conference call for Demant's Interim Report for 2026. My name is Peter Pudselykke, and I'm heading up the Investor Relations activities here in Demant. With me today, I have our usual crew, our President and CEO, Soren Nielsen; our CFO, Rene Schneider; as well as one of my good colleagues in the IR team, Gustav Hoegh. As you should have seen by now, there were a couple of announcements out from us last night, one relating to the interim report and one relating to the launch of our new premium hearing aid Oticon Reveal. We will be discussing both during today's call, and we plan to kick off with a presentation, which will be followed up by a Q&A session. The total session is expected to last no more than 1 hour, and the presentation should be online by now. When we get to the Q&A [Operator Instructions] Before we dig into the presentation, please do pay notice to the disclaimer slide on Slide 2. And with that, on to Slide 3, where I will leave it to Soren to start with the agenda, please.

Thank you very much, Peter, and welcome, everybody. Today's agenda, no surprise, highlights and financial takeaways, big business area review. Rene will take us through more details on the group financials. We'll discuss the outlook or present the revised outlook and take Q&A. And first half in highlights for Demant 2026, strong momentum in all business areas, ahead of expectation with growth accelerating from first quarter into second. This is driven by strong performance in Hearing Aids, where we fueled by the success of Oticon Zeal have seen a further strengthening of the momentum. Market growth remains to be in line with what we saw in the first quarter, but which is in the higher end of our -- I would say, lower-than-normal expectations. In Hearing Care, we have seen very solid execution and of course, also significant contribution from the acquisition of KIND, which in all in all, have delivered very strong performance, KIND not the least. Cost-saving initiatives announced in February 2026 are progressing ahead of plans and supporting underlying margin improvements. Rene will go through that in more details. The divestment of the Implant and Communication business was completed in Q1, and we are now a fully focused hearing healthcare company. Key financial takeaways from the first half, group reported growth of 15%, a strong momentum in all business areas and 10% of these are acquisitive growth primarily coming from KIND, but also other acquisitions. A key highlight is the increased gross margin, increased by 1.1 percentage points, driven by a strong geography channel product mix in Hearing Aids, leading to a strong ASP and supported by the acquisition of KIND in Hearing Care. Hearing Care retail business structurally have a slightly lower -- or higher, sorry, gross margin than the wholesale business. And therefore, of course, the mix also pulls it up. But I would also say here, higher than we expected. OpEx increased by 5% organically, partly supported by cost-saving initiatives announced in -- earlier in the year in February. Acquisitions, predominantly KIND, added 14% to group OpEx. And EBIT before special items was DKK 2.134 billion, corresponding to an EBIT margin of 16.5%. Below that, again, Rene will elaborate on that, strong underlying performance improvement and also underlying margin improvement. Strong cash flow, cash flow from operation of DKK 1.6 billion, corresponding to a 6% increase compared to first half '25. And based on our performance in the first half and reassessment of the momentum and the outlook for second half, we have upgraded our financial outlook for 2026. The organic revenue growth is now expected to be 6% to 7% and EBIT before special items, DKK 4.4 billion to DKK 4.8 billion. And for the business areas, starting with Hearing Aids, the hearing -- global hearing aid market in first half 2026, we estimate that it has in value grown 4%, 3% in units. The unit growth in the second quarter comes out a little bit different than the first quarter with U.S. commercial being 0 and U.S. VA being 1. This is less than first quarter, but the comps are also different. So 30,000 feet, unchanged market conditions, still below the normal expectation of 4% to 6%, but a little more positive on the ASP development, where we normally anticipate flat, we have seen and estimate an improved pricing of 1% also in the second quarter. In second quarter, highlights by geography. Growth in Europe was driven by Germany and France, whereas NHS was negative. This is purely due to phasing of purchase there, excluding U.K., Europe saw 6% growth, so quite solid. In North America, as I already spoke to, flat or modest growth in North America, depending on channel. Canada saw a strong growth. Rest of the world, we estimate -- where we have no statistics, but we estimate that the Chinese -- China maintained some positive momentum despite continuously challenged market conditions. In Australia, growth has also returned to positive development following a soft Q1. But again, all these with a grain of salt depending on last year's phasing. All in all, we see the market conditions in line with what we saw in the first quarter. Hearing Aids in second quarter, a further acceleration of growth driven by a full rollout of Oticon Zeal into all channels and geographies, and that has delivered a 10% growth. I would say it's broad-based. It is Zeal that, yes, in many ways, is the spearhead on the growth and changed the momentum. But we have really seen a nice broad pickup, most predominantly in North America, where we deliver double-digit growth, which is obviously way ahead of the underlying market growth, also strong in Canada, solid in Germany and U.K., France and Spain also strong growth. And in Asia Pacific, highlights are Japan and to some extent, Australia, whereas China saw a negative growth primarily due to the challenging market conditions. And we also, as Peter said, yesterday released the news that we will be introducing very shortly new flagship products, Oticon Reveal, our latest innovation, and I'll share a few highlights on the core technology that now takes performance of Hearing Aids to a new level. We introduced the world's first Dual AI system. And what's the core of that? The core of that is that so far, most AI systems, if not all, have centered around trying to somehow detect noise and suppress this more or less depending on your philosophy. We have now added a parallel AI system that focus on the speech and the content of the speech and the details of the speech. So you can say the contrast, the clarity of the speech is further enhanced. These 2 system work in parallel, but of course, synchronized and optimized towards one another. So all in all, working as one system in real time, all the time, very strong. And this is powered by a brand-new Reveal AI platform. It is still built, as we have done things for a number of years now, to support the way the brain makes sense of things, the way we translate from what we get in to what it means, to what it is that's being said, to that we can give a response and enjoy what we hear. And the world's first Dual AI system supports speed, precision, balancing of things. And a part of that is one thing is to know what you want to do very fast and be able to adjust the gain very precisely in the instrument. But in case you don't have a very strong anti-feedback system, meaning that the microphone end up hearing the speaker, then you can simply not deliver the gain. We have significantly improved our feedback prevention system, so we can deliver much more gain at much faster and higher precision to a level we don't believe any competitors are near. And this is in reality also very important in delivering the benefits to the end user because this is often about providing a lot of gain for soft sounds. So you get, again, the more details out of things. Then also a new connectivity platform that brings even stronger stability and longer range. So users again can enjoy the connection to the phone even if the phone is quite remotely placed and basically here training or enjoying music, whatever. And with this Dual AI system, which is the core of it, this is created by a new platform, a platform that still based on our philosophy is based on a single chip. This is a major benefit to power consumption to size, integration level and the optimization of that allows us to do the 2 AI systems in parallel without destroying power consumption. So things are still on all the time, working seamlessly for the end user, and there's no limitation to how much you can be in noise or how many hours or minutes you can use it. These things are always on and will help you getting an unmatched precision of speech and an unmatched guarantee in noise environments, but also while maintaining a level of contextual sound, so you actually know that you're in the restaurant or out in the traffic or wherever you are. There is a very, very solid basis for documenting these benefits. Some would say in a slightly scientific way, but this is to make sure things actually work. We see a very significant improvement in the signal-to-noise ratio presented to the end user without taking things out, but balancing them differently. We see a very significant improvement to the speech intelligibility index as it's called, meaning how can I actually understand and make sense of things. We see a very strong response to when the brain can actually see or hear the signal and make sense of it. That's something you can measure. And we see a very significant improvement, which is also confirmed in our trials of Oticon Intent, which I think everybody will admit is already a very strong hearing aid and platform. So very strong comfort in Oticon Reveal, going to bring excitement to the market and significant benefit for end users, whether it's your first hearing aid or whether it's an upgrade from an already well-functioning premium product of latest technology, then you will see a significant benefit improvement. In Hearing Care, second quarter, very strong performance with significant contribution from KIND in local currencies, impressive 31% growth, of which 23% comes from the acquisitions, mainly KIND, but also a larger acquisition in U.K. made in March. Strong 8% organic growth in the quarter, supported a little bit by the comps from last year, but also sequentially expressing an uplift to the momentum in the business and a strong execution broadly across geographies. KIND itself delivered a strong performance, and we also explicitly comment on that. And that's super good for, of course, scale and profit, and also good to see after uncertainty related to the immediate takeover is gone. So we are very comfortable about the further benefit of having the KIND business in our group. Looking at geographies, strong performance across the region, particularly in Germany, but also several other markets, a little less growth in France, but that's due to the way the distribution system continued to expand in France where a number of new players get into the field. Strong or good organic growth in North America was driven -- it was strong and driven by both U.S. and Canada. In U.S., growth was supported by slightly easier comparison figures than we had in Q1. We all remember last year, all the uncertainty that came from, let's say, political uncertainty. In Australia, strong organic growth, and we saw negative growth in China driven by tough market conditions, but also tough comparison figures. There was some release of reimbursement last year that's no longer there, which has definitely lowered both the product mix and also demand. Diagnostics in second quarter, very strong performance. We're very happy to see return to solid growth rates now in the quarter, 9%. Again, last year, uncertainty in Q2, super high, and we saw a lot of holding back on the execution of orders, of course, partly also due to that. But we also there definitely feel an improved momentum and that we gained share, and growth was coming both from instrument sales as well as service and consumable business. Growth was, yes, broad-based, but particularly strong in U.K., but also U.S., Canada, et cetera. So all in all, very good. Over to you, Rene, for group financials.

Thank you, Soren. And we move on to revenue in the first half, which is a bit of repetition. We saw a broad-based organic growth of 7% in the first half, acquisitive growth of 10%, entirely related to acquisitions in Hearing Care, of course, predominantly KIND, but also a larger retail in the U.K. as well as some minor acquisitions. And we saw a negative effect from FX of 3%, driven by U.S. dollar. So all in all, 15% growth in reported revenue. A highlight from the first half is the development in the gross profit. It increased by 17% to just shy of DKK 10 billion with a margin expansion of 1.1% point versus last year, which was above our expectation. And the primary drivers of that was a very healthy, solid development in ASP due to -- in Hearing Aids due to strong geography channel and product mix, but also equally supported by strong contribution from the acquisition of KIND and its performance in Hearing Care. That brings us to operating expenses and EBIT. We saw a 5% organic growth in the first half year, which was, on the one hand, partly supported by the cost-saving initiatives, but also included one-offs related to -- negative one-offs related to the restructuring of retail in the U.K. that I will come back to. In acquisitions, predominantly KIND, added 14% to OpEx growth and exchange rate had a negative effect of 2%. Looking at EBIT before special items, it was DKK 2.134 billion, corresponding to a margin of 16.5% or 19% growth in local currencies. Included in that result and in that margin, we have absorbed a number of negative effects, one of them being an estimated DKK 50 million negative effect from exchange rates, but also an additional DKK 30 million from the acquisition we did of a larger retail chain in the U.K. and the following restructuring that was executed in the first half year as part of our operating profit. If we exclude that, the underlying EBIT margin expansion would have been 0.6 percentage point compared to last year. That's reflecting a strong underlying operating leverage. Our special items in the first half was DKK 216 million, predominantly related to KIND. The strong result in the first half year also means that when we talked about outlook for the year previously, we highlighted a back-end loaded EBIT profile for the year. With this result, we now see a more normal phasing of EBIT between the 2 half years. Cash flow was strong, both on cash flow from operations, but also free cash flow. I would highlight the net cash inflow from acquisitions and divestments. So whilst we have done acquisitions, the divestments we have also done in the same period actually results in a net cash inflow of DKK 91 million. And as you are likely aware, we have not done any share buybacks during the first half as we have had focus on reducing debt and leverage, which brings us to the balance sheet development and also net interest-bearing debt. On the graph on the right-hand side, you see the spike in leverage after the acquisition of KIND, but you also see the strong deleveraging we have done since being actually ahead of plan on the deleveraging due to both strong cash generation as well as profit growth. So now we are at 3.0. And our updated view on gearing is that we, by end of 2026, expect to be slightly above the 2 to 2.5 range, which is our long-term guidance. With that, let's move on to outlook. Brief comment on the market. So we, I would say, almost as normal, but we do base the market understanding on a competitive environment where we know competitors or expect competitors to launch new product in H2. That is built into our assumptions. And we update based on the Hearing Aid market performance in H1, we update our full year assumptions to be 3% to 4%. This continues to be a conservative assumption below our medium- to long-term fundamental assumption around the market. Things to highlight. Special items, we have adjusted special items to now total DKK 400 million, previously DKK 325 million. We have pushed hard on both the KIND integration and the cost savings initiatives. And as a result of that, we also see higher special items. KIND integration special items is now estimated at DKK 150 million, previously DKK 125 million as well as cost-saving initiatives now DKK 250 million, previously DKK 200 million, primarily all related to severance payments and implementation costs. The other highlights on the outlook side is less negative effect on FX, as you have seen in the announcement, but also higher profit contribution from both CEI and KIND. The cost effectiveness program now is estimated to contribute DKK 300 million compared to DKK 250 million in the original outlook and the better performance in KIND with that, we expect a contribution to EBIT of DKK 325 million, previously DKK 300 million. Lastly, but more minor, we expect to get a refund of tariffs in H2 of DKK 25 million. With that, summing up our outlook now being 6% to 7% organic growth and an EBIT before special items in the range of DKK 4.4 billion to DKK 4.8 billion. So with that, we are ready to go to Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Martin Parkhoi with SEB.

Two questions. Firstly, with respect to Hearing Care with the 8% organic growth in the second quarter, where I understand that there is a very good contribution from ASP lift in Hearing Care, of course, supported by the high price point of Zeal. How should we look at the ASP contribution for the remainder of the year in Hearing Care? Of course, Zeal will still benefit year-over-year, but can there be some impact from lower price points -- lower price points of Zeal also become available? And then second question, also on pricing, but more on a wholesale level. Firstly, can you talk about -- you have a quite good success with the premium pricing of Zeal. What is your plans for Reveal versus Intent on each tier level? And how do you actually see the pricing risk of in an industry perspective in the second half in light of the quite crowded launch period we have from the industry and there is maybe some players which are more desperate than others to drive growth with these new products?

Thank you, Martin, for that. It's true that there is a significant ASP element in the growth in Hearing Care. It's both a mix, geography mix issue, but it is a product mix issue by most. So, yes, Oticon Zeal has been also a significant success in all retail, but it's of course, also in general, what we work on to help more people get a better solution. And that's a little bit different market for market depending on reimbursement and so on. So into second half, yes, I think we should be able to maintain, and we always see also in own retail that when we bring new exciting technology out in a premium launch. Then the upgrade part of the business has a tendency to increase. And that's definitely going to be a focus with Reveal where you could say Oticon Zeal is more a first-time user focus. So the 2 will go hand-in-hand, and I think we'll both be able to be elements in supporting a continued good ASP development also in own retail. On the Hearing Aid wholesale side, I think I would say the more that introduce premium, the more you tend to see a positive -- for the same reason with the upgrades, a positive product mix development in the industry. If there's then more or less discount on the new ones, well, it still ends up, I believe, net-net, leading to a better product mix that outbalance even if that effect is there. But at least as a beginning, I think everybody will try to get return on their R&D investments. So I would say, normally, even if we see a lot, it's good for the ASP in that period. Our own assumption is definitely that we'll be able to see a -- not as big as with Zeal because the product was very unique and without competition, you could say, almost, but that Reveal also will enable a net price increase over Oticon Intent.

The next question comes from Veronika Dubajova with Citi.

I have 2, please. The first one is just -- sorry, I was hoping you could give us a little bit of a flavor for the run rate for Zeal and sort of how you're thinking about further opportunities for growth from here, either in terms of lower price points or geographies? And just how much more room there you feel there is for Zeal to continue to drive kind of meaningful contribution to growth? That seems to have been the case in the first and the second quarter of the year. And then my second kind of question is really your thought process on Reveal and how it might position. Obviously, I know we are still waiting for 2 more product launches, but it'd be really helpful to understand from an AI perspective, from a size and battery and power perspective, what do you think Zeal brings to the table that you don't see in the market right now or you don't -- anticipating from folks as you look at the launch with that?

Thank you very much, Veronika. I would definitely say from a growth perspective, of course, we are comparing still to 0 when it comes to Zeal. So there is, of course, still a significant growth coming from Zeal, but also on a sequential basis, I definitely see further opportunities. You mentioned the example with more price points also to address other segments of the market. I would say that might be more of a European opportunity. In North America, there are still channels that don't offer that type of technology could come in. There are definitely still in VA, I would highlight significant opportunities. We see a very good I think several of you asked if Zeal was a niche product for a niche. We have now seen clearly both expansion of the number of people that end up having an in-year rechargeable product. We have also seen Oticon Zeal in that growing segment to take very significant share very fast and it has not come to an end. We also see it being the door opener to clinics we have not worked with because this is, obviously to everybody, a significantly different product, and it offers an opportunity to both have fantastic outcomes and also the opportunity for, you can say, instant fit because you can use it with a dome, which means you skip a number of revisits for impression taking and customer shell making, et cetera. So far, after 3 months into VA, super positive outcome, and we have definitely believe in continued growth in that channel as an example, but also outside for Oticon Zeal. And Reveal position, I would say it's second to none. There is nobody else that managed to combine AI opportunities for both noise and speech being available all the time any given time in an ordinary minimized form factor, rechargeable, full connectivity and everything. So for now, for what we can see, and yes, I don't have transparency either to new launches, and that might change it. But with the current competitive situation, what we know and have seen being presented to the market, I think Oticon Reveal is second to none.

The next question comes from Martin Brenoe with Nordea.

I'll also start out with 2 questions. The first one would also be on Zeal as a beginning. Now you mentioned the new price points a couple of times on this call. And I'm just a bit curious whether you think you've benefited from having more or less the only new product launch here in H1, making it maybe a bit more tough to stand out here and heading into H2 with other launches coming. So can you maybe just put a few words on the toolbox that you have in terms of building on the momentum you have with Zeal? Is that the new price points that we're going to see or is it more that you're going to do a second phase marketing spend on Zeal? Or what opportunities that you actually have to build on this momentum as we are seeing the space get more crowded? That's the first question. And the second question would be on the marketing side. When we adjust for the significant cost initiatives that you'll reap the benefits of here in H2, the underlying EBIT margin doesn't really imply any margin expansion despite the significant growth that you should be seeing and also guiding for here. So should we see this as a prudent assumption to your guide? Or are you actually investing back in the OpEx given the run rate you're seeing to be ready for 2027? That's my second question.

Yes. Thank you very much, Martin. I think I mentioned the new price points once. But if I may highlight a number of European markets, you simply have a limited premium segment, and we have penetrated very strongly there. We have even expanded it. We can see that in our own retail that there are more people that are willing to pay, but still it is a minor category. And if Zeal, which is our ambition, really have to grow to be a new way of producing and manufacturing in-ear instruments, we also want more volume into the technology and business and therefore, a discussion in selected market of more price points is relevant. But the biggest benefit of Zeal is that it helps opening new doors. So it will still be a significant part of our sales efforts and salespeople's job to use both Oticon Reveal, but equally important Zeal to get in the dialogue with customers that today have Oticon as a third or fourth or not even supplier. To our existing customers, people that have had some business with Oticon, this is now, I think, to a large extent, known stuff. There are always training, you can do more and so on. We will do a little more on the consumer side on media spend to also help make sure that we continue to see end users being aware of the concept and come into stores to ask for it. This is not big volumes, but it is very meaningful. So there are many levers for that, and to your margin, I will start and Rene can supplement. But the cost-saving initiatives is to improve margin on Demant, and it's working well towards that. We have, of course, always also said we will continue to invest in the business. We believe it's a growth business, but it is clearly the ambition. And again, underlying also in first half, there is a meaningful improvement of the EBIT margin, as Rene just took you through. And I think there is good visibility to a further improvement in the second half for a number of reasons. But maybe, Rene, you want to add a few words?

Yes, not much to supplement. I mean we do -- you can do the math in many ways, and we have a range in our outlook, which provides for many scenarios. I would say, our working hypothesis and definitely what we work strongly towards is a margin expansion, both sequentially and relative to last year reported and underlying in any way, you can imagine, and that's what we plan for. I would say we have an outlook that we are very confident in.

The next question comes from David Adlington with JPMorgan.

Maybe first up, just maybe a bit more conceptual one. You've narrowed your top line from 3 points from 3% to 6% now to 6% to 7%, still quite a wide margin range of DKK 400 million same as the start of the year. I just wonder why you haven't narrowed the EBIT range on what the deltas are between the bottom and the top end of that range, quite narrow revenue assumptions.

Yes. So generally speaking, we see a relatively high translation from revenue changes down to EBIT when markets or particular geographies are doing extremely well or extremely poor, we have seen that in the past. So it is a reflection that 6% to 7% is in reality5.5% to 7.5% and the translation to EBIT, we see similarly correspond to a DKK 400 million range. So the big swing factors, of course, are, as I mentioned, market and then relatively speaking, our own expected overperformance to that market. So, I think it's in line with how we have done things in the past.

And then just one quick follow-up. Was there any pre investments in the new launch in the first half?

Not in particular.

We expect in the second half?

Of course. But nothing out of the ordinary. Of course, if you compare to last year, that's also part of the maybe slightly higher OpEx for this year than you would imagine when you see cost initiatives and so on. It is an intensive launch year on the Hearing Aid wholesale side to do 2 big launches and a lot of news. Of course, that we also invest in that to make sure we get half of the benefits.

So I would say just to give some direction around the OpEx line. On the one hand, as Soren mentioned, we are putting significant resources behind a high-end launch and also you can say, marketing efforts in Hearing Care to support the growth and the gross profit drive. And -- but on the other hand, we're also executing on the cost effectiveness. So on balance, you would expect organic growth rate in OpEx maybe similar to what you saw in the first half year.

The next question comes from Niels Granholm-Leth with DNB Carnegie.

A couple of market-related questions. So in your view, what's needed to normalize the growth on the U.S. commercial market? And secondly, why do you think that we have seen a stronger pricing discipline in this first half, which have contained many kind of end-of-life products on the market, but still price -- the pricing discipline seems to have been pretty good.

Yes. Thank you, Niels. Yes, I can't tell when we expect it to normalize, but I think it's worth highlighting that underneath the flat growth -- flattish growth in U.S. commercial, we do still see the managed care segment declining, and we do see cash pay private independents have some growth, and then we see the strongest growth being in what we would call big box retail and large operators, including ourselves. And I think it will have to come with a new stand on managed care and it finding its new balance, and then we would see the total market return to growth. There continue to be some dropout, people that are not eligible, whatever it is, to drive it leakings to the other channels. But at some stage, I would assume there is a rebalancing. But when that happened is very difficult to estimate, of course. There's no doubt we still see the expected growth in senior population, prevalence of hearing loss, et cetera. I don't think we have any other indication that this still relates to consumer confidence in general, fear of inflation or inflation for many and some managed care contracts not offering benefit to the same number of clients as they did in the past. And the second one, pricing discipline. Well, I can turn it around and say at least 2 or 3 of the players have presented significant innovation where there also is a cost component to it. And therefore, I think the discipline have actually maybe this time started with realizing that to get return and also you would defend the continued growing cost of goods sold driven by technology, whether it's the production methodology or additional electronics or whatever it is, then you, at some stage, have to say that we have to install a stronger pricing discipline and also arguing for the benefit stronger for the end user. Otherwise, we have only done it for our own sake. And I think at least I can talk for demand, but it seems like a number of competitors have similar trends and therefore, have been more firm that margin dilution cannot happen and therefore, have been more disciplined around pricing of the premium products, I would say, in particular.

The next question comes from Richard Felton with Goldman Sachs.

Two, please. The first one, it does seem like the in-ear category has been growing well ahead of the overall market. Can you maybe elaborate a little bit on the dynamics you're seeing between in-ear versus share gains from other form factors or anything that you're potentially seeing in terms of category expansion driven by in-ear? And then second one, Soren, you mentioned that Zeal was the spearhead for growth, but the rest of the portfolio is doing well in addition to that. Can you maybe elaborate on why that is the case in practice? How is Zeal helping the rest of the portfolio?

Thank you very much. Yes, we don't -- in many markets, we don't have a lot of statistics for the different styles. But in some, we have. And it's very obvious that the lack of rechargeability in decent-sized instruments, I would say, have been a limitation for many years for why receiver in the ear have grown after they became popular for just the cosmetic benefit. The receiver in the ear was much more discreet than the old molds. Then the next thing was connectivity, the next thing was rechargeability. But there are now some concepts in the field that actually, you would say, overcome that and then Zeal in particular, overcome also the cosmetic element and therefore, basically offer almost the same benefits as a behind-the-ear, which for some is more visible. And I think that's the natural evolution and swing back. No end users are, when they arrive as first-time users, very aware what is around. They might have seen an instrument like this or that. And therefore, cosmetics matters a lot whereas existing users might be a little more nuanced and balanced on whether they take one version or the other. Have you, for many years, used a miniRITE, I'm not sure you would go for a in-ear product, but for first-time users, it definitely is for many more attractive. And spearhead for growth means that Zeal is a door opener. It's a new concept. You can see the idea, you see the benefit for first-time users. So as I think I've said before, there's simply more calls being booked to customers with whom you have little or no business. And based on that call, you actually -- once you then fit it, when you learn the fitting system, you see the qualities also in the signal processing, and there is a chance that you then also manage to open up for a broader part of the portfolio to these new customers. And that's what I mean when I talk about a spearhead for attention, a spearhead for new opportunities.