Indian Oil Corporation Limited (IOC) Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Indian Oil Corporation Limited Q2 FY '27 Results Call hosted by Antique Stockbroking Limited. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Varatharajan Sivasankaran from Antique Stockbroking Limited. Thank you, and over to you.

Thank you, Nisha. A very good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's my pleasure to welcome all the participants as well as the management of Indian Oil Corporation. We have with us today Mr. Anuj Jain, Director of Finance; Mr. Nitin Kumar, ED, Corporate Finance and Treasury; and Mr. Pramod Jain, CGM Treasury, along with his team. I'd like to hand over the call to Mr. Anuj Jain for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Thank you. Dear investors and analysts, a very good morning to all of you post announcement of the second quarterly results of financial year 2026-'27. I trust you had an opportunity to review the financial results and accompanying disclosures published on our website and stock exchanges, along with the updates shared with you. In today's call, we would like to walk you through our performance for the quarter gone by, provide some insights on the broader macroeconomic context and also share with you the strategic initiatives we are pursuing to strengthen our position as India oil in 2026, global crude oil prices witnessed a significant spike. The Indian basket crude price, which average around USD 65 to USD 70 per barrel in feb remained above the USD 100 per barrel mark during most of Q1 financial year '26-'27. During Q2, crude oil prices remain relatively moderate with Indian leverage bucket largely ranging between USD 85 to USD 95 per barrel during July and August. witnessing renewed upward pressure and escalating geopolitical tensions in September. Supply side uncertainties continue to persist with disruptions to commercial shipping in vicinity of the Strait of Hormu coupled with elevated freight and risk insurance costs. The Indian basket has remained above USD 100 per barrel mark on a sustained basis since September around USD 120 per barrel in October 2026. Amid these heightened geopolitical uncertainties and evolving global trade flows, Indian Oil continues important secure, reliable, economically competitive crude oil grades from diverse countries, while managing challenges of high market volatility. Logistics challenges in terms of ships, insurance freight costs among other things remain a cause of concern. Amidst disruptions, we diversified our sourcing by increasing imports from other geographies like Russia, Venezuela, Brazil and even some from African countries, thereby ensuring continuity of crude oil imports to maintain our refinery operations. The spot imports for the half year stood at about 87% against 50% during the last financial year. As regards to our performance for Q2 financial year '26-'27, we reported a net profit of INR 21,030 crores compared to net loss of INR 2,661 crores in the preceding quarter and profit after tax of INR 7,610 crores in the corresponding quarter of financial year '25-'26. From a half year perspective, the PAT is INR 18,969 crores as against INR 13,299 crores in H1 financial year '25-'26. Higher inventory gains and other multiple factors have contributed towards the profitability for the period. Revenue from operations during this quarter stood at INR 2,62,936 crores against INR 2,75,972 crores in the preceding quarter for this year. Revenues for the corresponding quarter of financial year '26 was INR 2,02,992 crore. Beyond navigating the near-term challenges in the crude energy environment, Indian Oil continues to focus on strengthening operational excellence across its integrated business, our refining capabilities, extensive pipeline infrastructure and nationwide marketing network remain key strengths in ensuring supply reliability, improving operational efficiency and supporting the country's going energy requirements. At the same time, we continue to pursue opportunities in cleaner energy and emerging businesses as part of our long-term growth strategy to support India's evolving energy requirements and transition objectives. Since now the digital and financial highlights will be briefed by Shri Nitin Kumar, Executive Director Corporate Finance and Treasury Indian Oil. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Good morning to you all. Kindly note that today's discussion may include forward-looking statements, which are based on currently available information assumptions and expectations and are subject to uncertainties that could cause actual results, performance or achievements differ materially from those expressed or implied. Participants are advised to refer to the company's latest filings with regulatory authorities for a more detailed discussion on the risks and uncertainties. Before turning to our numbers, let me briefly touch upon the macro backdrop against which this quarter played out. The quarter saw a notable shift in the global macroeconomic environment development in West Asia. crude prices higher inflation concerns, taking global sovereign bond yields to multiyear highs. Central banks responded firmly. The U.S. Fed raised by 25 basis points in September. And the RBI followed soon in October with a 25 basis repo rate increased to 5.5%, reinforcing its commitment to price stability. Coming to the ForEx market. The rupee remained highly volatile during Q2 of this financial year. It depreciated to a quarterly low of about INR 96.58 per USD in July after U.S. escalations. However, it recovered to around INR 94.5 per USD aided by a strong FCNRB inflows under RBI facility. The rupee could not hold the gains and closed the quarter at INR 95.84 per USD after Fed rate hike. Recently, rupee recovered to below USD 95 per USD levels after RBI measures. The rupee is expected to remain volatile under these uncertain global geopolitical environments. On the India continues to stand out. The IMF has raised India's financial year '26-'27 growth forecast to 7%, well above global growth of 3.1%, citing resilient domestic demand. The strength is reflected in energy demand as per PPAC data, domestic consumption of petrol that is MS and diesel that is HSD grew by 8.5% and 7.5%, respectively, in Q2 o financial year '26-'27 compared with Q2 of financial year '25-'26. This provides a strong foundation for demand across our businesses. The average price of crude that is Indian basket declined to $96.16 per barrel in Q2 of this year from $100.74 per barrel in Q1 of last year -- of this year, sorry. However, the ongoing U.S.-Iran conflict and heightened geopolitical uncertainties continue to exit upward pressure on global crude oil prices, keeping energy market volatile. Now let me briefly touch upon the quarterly performance highlights. While navigating a volatile global energy environment, we have continued to balance market stability with commercial consideration. Our strong volume base, extensive marketing network and focus on operational efficiencies and product mix optimization provide us a strong foundation to earnings resilient and position us to benefit from an improvement in marketing margins as market conditions evolve. Talking about the numbers. Now let me briefly touch upon the major verticals. Refineries. During the quarter, refineries achieved throughput of 18.1 MMT with a capacity utilization of 102.3% in comparison to throughput of 19.2 MMT with a capacity utilization of 109.4% during the preceding quarter. For the corresponding quarter of financial year '25-'26, the throughput was at 17.6 MMT with a capacity utilization of 99.4%. On July 12, 2026, Panipat refinery became the first Indian oil refinery to produce all-weather grade high-speed diesel, reinforcing Indian Oil's commitment for meeting the fuel requirements of the nation's operating under extreme conditions. Pipeline. During the quarter, pipeline throughput was 25.3 MMT, with a capacity utilization of 64.3% vis-a-vis 28.5 MMT during the preceding quarter with capacity of 79.9%. During the corresponding quarter of financial year '25-'26, the capacity utilization was about 66.7% with throughput of 24.1 MMT. Marketing. The total sales volume during the quarter was 25.228 MMT as compared to 26.211 MMT during the preceding quarter and 24.262 MMT in Q2 of financial year '25-'26. During the quarter, 126 retail outlets were commissioned, taking the total number to 43,245. Under a significant strategic development, Indian Oil signed a sale purchase agreement with the State Trading Corporation of Mauritius under G2G framework MOU between Government of India and Government of Mauritius. Pursuant to this, Indian Oil will meet 100% requirement of motor gas and gas oil, that is HSD, and Jet-A1 ATF of Mauritius on delivered business for the next 5 years. The sale of petrochemical products, including exports during this quarter was 0.858 MMT compared to sale of 0.768 MMT in the preceding quarter. Gas. During the quarter, we registered gas sales of 1,933 TMT, which includes CGD sales of 76 TMT as compared to total gas sales of 1,873 TMT, including CGD sales of 67 TMT during the preceding quarter. In a significant development, Indian oil has been interested with developing the gas supply infrastructure for supply of natural gas in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Indian Oil has signed 25 years gas sale agreement with NTPC Vidyut Vyapar Nigam Limited, a subsidiary of NTPC for the supply regasified LNG to the upcoming gas-based power projects in Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Additionally, Indian Oil is also developing a floating storage and regasification unit, that is FSRU, based infrastructure to supply natural gas to power plants in the islands. Renewable Energy. Indian Oil is working to strengthen its position at the forefront of India's biofuel and energy transition agenda, aligning with objective of energy security and decapitalization across hydrogen and green hydrogen, ethanol, biodiesel, CBG and SAF. The corporation continues to scale commercial capacity and deepen its partner ecosystem. As informed earlier, Limited, our wholly owned surgery is working in renewable energy activities, including wind and solar projects. The company has received connectivity approvals for 2.65 gigawatt capacity on central transmission unit that is CTU and state transmission utility that is STU. Further, the company has been allotted 423 acers of land in the state of Uttar Pradesh for development of solar power plant of around 100 megawatt. Terra Clean Limited is aggressively exploring commercial and industrial customers across India for providing reliable green power through long-term power purchase agreements under the group captive open access mode. CapEx. During April to September '26, the company incurred a total CapEx of INR 12,162 crores encompassing investment across all verticals. The CapEx started for the financial year '26-'27 is INR 32,700 crores. These investments are aligned with our long-term strategic road map and national energy priorities. In September 2026, project has been mechanically completed, commissioning activities are in progress. The major refining expansion project in Panipat, Barauni and Gujarat are at advanced stages of execution and are targeted for completion during '26-'27. Sales-wise commissioning of process unit utilities and facilities are being undertaken in a structured manner to enable progressive capacity buildup and integration. Borrowings. With respect to the borrowing levels, the borrowing as on 30th September 2026 was at INR 1,16,578 crores level compared to INR 1,41,453 crores as on 30 June 2026. The reduction in borrowing levels is primarily driven by higher profitability and favorable working capital changes. As of 30 September 2026, the company's gross debt-to-equity ratio stood at 0.54, reflecting a comfortable profile. After adjusting for financial investments, the net debt equity ratio further strengthens to 0.35, positioning us well to pursue growth opportunities, absorb market volatility and maintain financial strength across cycles. With this, Director Finance for his closing remarks.

Thank you, Nitin. I would like to extend my sincere appreciation to investors and all stakeholders for their continued confidence and support. We remain focused on delivering consistent performance, maintaining financial discipline and strengthening our competitiveness while creating sustainable long-term value for our shareholders and all sequels. With that, I will end our briefing here. We would now be happy to take your questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Probal Sen from ICICI Securities. .

Congratulations for a very strong set of numbers. Firstly, can I have the refining margins for this quarter broken down into core and inventory gains like you generally give?

Yes. You can note down. During quarter 2 '26-'27, we had a margins of $18.52 per barrel, which is including SAD and considering the SAD impact, the GRM is $36.67 per barrel. This is for Q2.

Yes. Okay. And sir, inventory number, is it possible to share, roughly?

Yes, in Q2, basically, on overall basis, we had a benefit of INR 6,900 crores benefit on account of inventory.

The second question was with respect to the crude environment. If we can get a sense of what kind of premium we are paying right now on top of benchmark crudes in terms of what we see on the exchanges, what is the actual premium on the ground that we are paying right now on a blended basis? And second part of that question is if we can get a sense of what percentage of crude is from Russia and whether we are also looking at Venezuela as a potential import. If you can just throw some color on that?

Yes. So as you know, the crude oil prices have remained highly volatile during this quarter also. I think in March, we are facing the huge volatility in the crude oil prices. So it is very difficult to give an exact number because it depends on various factors, whether it is on DAP, geographic cost type of crude. But I will give you a broad number that on a benchmark basis, the crude oil in Q2 has ranged from -- even from minus $5 to plus $12 per barrel. So it has been huge volatile. And in Q1 itself it was about $0 to $18. That means I would say that in Q1, it was almost on positive side in the Q2 for some part of the period, it became minus and again, it has gone to plus. So from minus $5 to plus $12, it has raised during this quarter. And coming to the second question, from Russia, we have bought 55% during the half year. And if you say in Q2, it has also remained in the range-bound manner. So we continue to purchase significant volumes of Russian crude at a very optimal prices. And I think that as being a benefit to us. And as far as the Venezuela is concerned, yes, the company has been continuously buying Venezuelan food and processing it. And all these factors have contributed to the profitability of the company.

Got it. Sir, one last question, if I may. Given the kind of spike in crude and product prices as well as LPG prices also in Q3, the losses from that division would obviously be expanding. So how are we looking at basically managing the retail marketing segment and the LPG segment in Q3, any discussions on pricing changes or additional compensation from the government, if you can highlight to us what...

See, I would like to refrain from any providing forward-looking guidance, particularly matters relating to government. But I can say only that Indian Oil has been successfully managing the procurement of crude oil and LPG during the entire crisis period. And you would have seen consistently that all the refineries are running at the most optimum throughput. In fact, we have achieved the highest ever throughput in refining, pipeline, marketing. In all segments, our physical performance is exceptionally good. Our teams are working day and night to ensure that on the operational front, we remain the best-performing metrics. As far as the third quarter is concerned, I can say the only thing that we have managed both quarter 1 and quarter 2, you have seen and we are very confident, even in quarter 3, we will be able to manage these things. And many factors are affecting the profitability of the company. So I would say that even on LPG and other things, the flow from Strait of Hormuz has increased. We have diversified our sources. So I think a lot of mitigation steps are in place to ensure that both on financial front and operational front company is able to manage this ongoing crisis.

The next question is from the line of Yogesh Patil from Dolat Capital.

Congratulations for the good set of numbers. Considering the latest price increase in propane and the butane recently just a day back, Saudi Aramco has announced. How much domestic LPG under recovery we can expect in the month of December. And how it was during the October and November?

Okay. I will give you the -- Saudi has gone up to $756 per metric tonne. So as is concerned, you know that in September, it was INR 184 per cylinder, which went up to INR 229 per cylinder in the month of October. And going forward, in the month of November, we see that it would be somewhere in the range of INR 309 in the month of December, and it will go to INR 370 per cylinder in the month of December.

Okay. Fair enough. Sir, next question related to the renewable power and the clean energy project. Can you give us a detail how much solar wind battery capacities are already installed? That's one. Again, on the capital expenditure side towards the power and the clean energy projects in the next 2 to 3 years, how much CapEx IOCL is going to spend on these projects? Can you provide some detail?

Okay. I will go one by one. The current capacity is 259.68 megawatts. Solar is the 92 and wind is the balance one. As you have seen that we have given an ambitious target of 31 gigawatt by -- in another 5 years. And to achieve that target, we have opened a 100% subsidiary of Indian Oil, Terra Clean company, which is focusing on our renewable path. And already, we have a joint venture company, NTPC, to give us 2 gigawatt renewable power, and that should be available in next 5 to 6 months from the joint venture company. Some of 100% subsidiary company Terra Clean, we aim to -- we have already received a connectivity approvals of 2.6 gigawatt. And as far as the target is concerned, we are going to spend almost you can say INR 5,000 crores to INR 10,000 crores per annum for equity contributions in our subsidiary company because these type of companies are highly companies. So if you take a good equity ratio of 1:2 or 1:3, equity contribution of INR 5,000 crores to INR 10,000 crores is being targeted in the next 5 years.

Okay. And the last one, sir, the target of 31 gigawatt set up by the IOCL, all the power generation will be consumed for our own purpose, captive, or we are also planning to sell this power to the grid and any discounts?

No, it is going to be both for captive, but majority of that will be further for the market. So we have -- for the PPAs and those things. So we are focusing -- apart from the initial 2 gigawatt power, which we entered a joint venture company with the NTPC, that is for our captive usage. But whatever we are targeting through our subsidiary company, Terra Clean, it is predominantly for the competitive market. And I would also like to add that both the 31 gigawatt will be -- we are targeting both from organic and inorganic route. So both of those options are being kept open.

The next question is from the line of Vivekanand Subbaraman from AMBIT Capital.

This quarter, you reported trading gains in your gas segment. When I look at the segmental results, you have a positive EBIT on the cash side. Is that attributable to your trading business or is it the CGD business? And can you give us some details on the ramp-up that you're doing in the gas business? And could you also help us understand the structure you have some CBD stations of your own, some with the Adani group and I think some in other JVs. If you can help us understand your plan there, plus you also have an LNG terminal in Ennore and certain gas pipelines. So if you can help us understand the gas business better, it will be great.

Yes. I would tell you, Indian Oil remains a very, very important in the gas segment. It is a major importer of LNG in the country. We are into CGD segment. We are into the CBG segment, we are into PNG. So all these verticals are very actively playing in the market. As far as this quarter, positive gas margins are concerned because we have good long-term contracts of LNG in our portfolio. when the international prices went up in domestic market, because of these long-term contracts, we were able to earn higher margins during both quarter 1 and more in quarter 2 because gas prices went up more significantly high in the quarter 2. So that is a basic reason. And Indian Oil, apart from being an all-in pet-chem company, is also a major gas segment. So you will see more and more positives coming from the gas story of the company. And also, I will say we have not terminal LNG import terminals, we have a gas pipeline. So we are physically available in all the segments of gas in the country.

The next question is from the line of Mayank Maheshwari from MS.

First question related to the refineries. If you can talk to us in terms of all the 3 refineries that you were expanding, where are we in terms of project execution, where have the first crudes bought in? And any time lines in terms of ramp-up, if you can talk about that?

Okay. See, the -- all the 3 projects, Panipat, Barauni and Gujarat are at advanced stages of execution and targeted completion is '26-'27. The actual intake will take some time because after the initial commissioning, you generally know that it takes some time to ramp up. But if you -- I will give you status. Panipat Refinery is 95% complete. Gujarat Refinery is at 90% and Barauni is at 92.5%. Expected commission will remain this financial year, but actual our throughput will start coming in 5 to 6 months thereafter. So it's a gradual ramp up. Many units have started commissioning even we speak today. So all the projects are at the advanced stages of commissioning.

Got it, sir. And I think the second question was more a strategic question related to the entire energy security at the country level. I think all of you at OMP level have kind of struggled on the logistics side, you have been talking about it on the earnings call for the last 2 quarters as well this quarter as well, your highlights [indiscernible] thinking process for you to kind of think about now we need to kind of invest in shipping as well because previously, the thinking process was it's just 2.5 days away from Middle East, so we don't need so much of that CapEx, but is there some change in the thinking process at the government level or at your level of how you manage the next crisis, hopefully it doesn't happen, but is there some thinking there?

See, I will tell you, for the shipping business, first of all, on a day-to-day basis even today, you have to optimize between your time charter vessels and charter vessels. So even during this crisis, we had a good number of time charter vessels with us, which significantly helped us because when the fit market is at all-time high, all the time chartered vessels helped us significantly in managing not only the price but optimizing the cost also. Number two, now we have 2 more possibilities going forward. One is started owning the ships now. Instead of time charter, we start owning the ships for that also, the work is on. You would have seen the Board has already given go ahead -- our Board of Indian Oil has already given go ahead to buy a few vessels now, which Indian Oil will start owning up in time to come. And the third possibility is which is a more of a strategic call at a country level is making India the ships. That activity is also going on. So shipping is a very, very focused area, not only for us but for the entire energy sector in the country today. And Indian Oil is also focusing on all the 3 verticals. I would say, work on the first front, optimizing between the time charter and charter is being done. On the second part, tenders were already out in the market a few months back. We wanted to buy some vessels. And the third part is also the discussions are on with all the stakeholders. So it remains our focus area going forward. Country needs all sector companies to focus more on shipping area now.

Sir, if you can just give us the number of what exposure do you have on rates and sourcing of your spot exposure to

See, if you see -- normally, if you see today, we have almost -- we have 3 numbers of crude oil vessels on time charter with us. So the rate would be -- if you talk about Indian Oil, generally should be around $2 to $2.25 or $2.5 per barrel. But if you go to the market, it is as high as $8 to $10. So it gives us significant benefit to anyone having a time charter today in the market. Same is the case with LPG. Today, if you talk about the normal time, generally, the LPG should be $1.40 per metric tonne, which today, it is as high as $1.60, $1.80 per metric tonne in the market. So it is very high in the spot market today. So Indian Oil is having good numbers of 3 numbers of crude oil vessels and 9 numbers of LPG vessels. All these enters are giving us good security nowadays and good savings also.

The next question is from the line of Kishan Mundhra from DAM Capital.

A couple of them. So firstly, if you could share the depreciation for your petrochemical segment for the quarter?

Yes. Okay. Give me some time. If you have any other questions, we can move to that and come back to your question.

Yes. A couple of -- so sir, particularly on your refining expansion, sir, so on Panipat, Barauni and Gujarat. So I'm assuming the CGUs that you're putting up are all new CGUs. So just to add them, would you need to take any shutdowns in your existing refineries or it can be done without taking a shutdown? And then while you ramp up, I mean, would the product slate change versus your existing product output and so I'm assuming there is sufficient capacity in the secondary units to ensure that our product slate remains what it is currently. So is that understanding correct?

See, I would say any expansion will require a brief shutdown. But it is not required to be done immediately. It is right for Panipat and Gujarat already in multiple stages, we have taken shutdown and revamp work has been done. Barauni, we are yet to do that, but that will not be a significant one. So I would say being all the brownfield expansions the kind of hookups are required would be smoothly done and no major disruption on the supply side is expected in the system. And in any case, Indian Oil is a very, very diversified company. We are more than 10 system. So at any point of time, you will find 1 or 2 year refineries under shutdown, so that is a continuous process, what we do. But because of the expansion, we don't expect any reduction in our volumes. And number two, I would say that the what you were saying, definitely, all these are modern So our -- although it is similar to my existing freight, but yes, we expect that in Panipat, HSD production will go from 46% to 49% and yields will go from 83.4% to 85.2%. As far as Gujarat is concerned, yield is expected to go from 79.3% to 82.5%. And HSD production remains almost the same. In Barauni, HSD will go from 48% to 50%. And yield will remain in the range-bound manner. And our residue hydrocracker unit at Panipat will also result into better yield of 3.8%. All these multiple factors will contribute to the better yield in times to come. And coming to your first question, what is the depreciation in petchem segment in Indian Oil? In Q2, depreciation on petchem segment was INR 381 crores.

Okay. And for -- if you have a ready for FY '26 in total as well?

See, I would say you can just extrapolate the figure, you will be near to the same figures.

Understood. Sir, last question from me, sir. I mean, after we are done with the current phase of expansion in these refineries and petrochemicals, what are the next hydrocarbon-focused -- big higher carbon focused projects that we are working on. One is Paradip, but apart from that, any other ones that you could highlight?

Yes. Actually, after the major -- as you said that after the expansion of these 3 major refining projects, next would be the Paradip After that, we are also focusing on small, small projects on petrochemicals. We already -- Board has already kept us for almost INR 10,000 crores in the past 1 year on these new projects of petrochemicals, which is already in the public domain business specialty chemicals, what we are trying to focus. Apart from that, we already said we are going to invest heavily into a subsidiary company, on the renewable power projects. We have also going to invest into the battery business, which we're already doing in a major way by a battery business. We are also focusing on the modernization of all our retail outlets in a major way. We are also investing heavily into wayside amenities. If you go to any now express highway you see huge wayside amenity. So Indian Oil is focusing major way in those sectors also. But as far as specific question is concerned, I will tell you that in the medium term, we are expecting -- we are also augmenting our PBR unit at Panipat refineries project at Gujarat refinery, integrated DSP Paradip Refinery. So I -- see, for a very diversified company, I would say a company will remain CapEx of INR 30,000 crores to INR 40,000 crores in the next 4 to 5 years. So that is a standard CapEx, what we target. Nowadays, we are focusing on expansion of 3 refinery projects, but already a lot of CapEx trends are there in multiple sectors for next 5 years.

Understood, sir. Understood. So as I understand it, so Paradip expansion -- Paradip cracker is the key hydrocarbon project we have been working on. And on that, any particular reason that we -- it has not got a -- we have not finalized it or closed it as of now?

See, the work is going on. Any major expansion projects take some time to kick start because of the availability of land and approvals. So that activity is going on. See, as you know, the approval was already given by the Board. So now the various -- how to make best use of the configuration studies are going on. And I think the petrochemical remains a very focused area for the company. Detailed engineering work is going on. So alone of the most complex petchem units which So it will take some time to start working on the ground.

The next question is from the line of [ Ramesh ], an individual investor.

Congratulations on your performance. So if you can share some thoughts on your Terra Clean subsidiary in terms of when we expect them to turn EBITDA positive and cash flow positive? And what is the kind of scale you're looking at once you reach full scale, in terms of revenue and, say, IRR for Terra Clean? And the second thought is in terms of your gas segment, can you give us some specific details in terms of what was the positive contribution from your stand-alone distribution stations and the Ennore LNG terminal? Those are the 2 questions.

Okay. See, first question is on Terra Clean limited. See, Terra Clean is 1 gigawatt renewable power in the next 5 years, which includes 6 gigawatt organic buildup and around 7.5 gigawatts of and remaining is the joint venture companies and as already you know, we have already had a joint venture company 3 years back with NTPC. So mix of all these 3 segments will contribute almost 31 gigawatt in next 5 years. So already, if you talk about Terra Clean, Board has already approved the 5.3 gigawatt of investment under TCL. And we are targeting a debt equity which 75:25. And we expect that the EBITDA positive should be somewhere around [ 29, 30 ]. These all multiple projects are highly you have to compete in TPAs and other things and connectivity, you know the renewable sector has a lot of challenges itself in the power sector. So all these put together, we expect that the company projects should start coming on going from '28, '29, '30 and the procurement is already underway at many of the sites. So all these things put together, EBITDA positive, I would say, financial year '29-'30 should be the year where we become EBITDA positive. And I also would like to say that Terra Clean is also aggressively exploring commercial and industrial customers tie up from today itself because it takes some time to tie with the customers. So Indian Oil has a marketing expertise and that expertise will definitely help the company to have a very effective tie-ups with the commercial industrial customers across India. And that would be our major strength going forward. And second is concerned on a Ennore tunnel. As you know that its capacity is 5 MMTPA. And today, the utilization is almost 28%. Due to multiple factors, the pipeline connectivity and other things, utilization has been low. But with the kind of gas demand we are witnessing and multiple pipelines coming into commissioning, we expect the utilization to go up in time to come in the next 2, 3 years.

So is Ennore likely to show EBITDA positive in the next 1 or 2 years? And secondly, what was the contribution from the stand-alone CGDs in your 2Q segment performance in the Gas segment?