Ipca Laboratories Limited (IPCALAB) Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call of Ipca Laboratories Limited hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I'll now hand the conference over to Mr. Nitin Agarwal from DAM Capital Advisors Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Michelle. Hi. Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to Ipca Labs' Q4 F '24 earnings call hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Private Limited. On the call today we have representing Ipca Labs, Mr. A.K. Jain, Managing Director; and Mr. Harish Kamath, Corporate Counsel and Company Secretary. I'll hand over the call to Mr. Jain to make the opening comments, and then we'll open the floor for questions. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you. Thank you, Nitin, and DAM Capital Advisors for organizing this call. Good afternoon to all participants, and thanks for taking out time and joining us for Q4 FY '24 earnings call. Today's call and discussions and answer given, may include some forward-looking statements based on our current business expectations that must be viewed in conjunction with risk that pharmaceutical industry faces. Our actual future financial performance may differ from what is projected and perceived. You may use your own judgment on the information given during the call. Domestic formulation business has delivered a growth of around 13% for the quarter. And for whole of the year, it delivered around 12% kind of growth. And Ipca continue to remain a 16th ranked pharmaceutical company as per IQVIA in Indian pharmaceutical market. In Q4, as per IQVIA, we have beaten both on chronic and acute therapies. Overall, IPM has grown by around 6% in this quarter, whereas IQVIA has recorded our growth at 15%. On Acute segment, market has grown by 3%, and we have -- IQVIA has recorded our growth as around 11%. And on Chronic, the market has grown by around 10% and our growth is around 12%. And overall, for the last 12 months on a net basis, we have delivered a growth of around 13% as per IQVIA as against 8% for IPM. So we have been continuously beating as far as domestic market is concerned, the overall market growth. Overall, our market share as per the mid-March 2024, has improved to 2.04% from 1.88% at March '23. Last few years, our focus has been more on cities, and that has started delivering -- the top cities, and that has started delivering results. Ipca has achieved a growth of around 16% in top 6 metros as against market growth of around 8%. Ipca emerged as the fastest-growing country in top 25 players as per IPM as per the mid-March 2024. As far as export formulation business is concerned, for the quarter, it has delivered around 9% growth. And overall, formulation business for the year has reached to around INR 1,775 crores from a business around INR 1,659 crores, with a growth of around 8%. In spite of generic export growth of around 22% for the year to around INR 981 crores from INR 801 crores, overall growth is lower because of challenges we have faced in branded promotional market like Russia and West Africa and decline in institutional generic business in the last financial year. As far as margins are concerned, the stand-alone margin for the quarter is -- EBITDA margin is around 18.5% as against 11.29% it recorded in previous financial year in the fourth quarter. For full financial year, the EBITDA margin is achieved at around 19.29% as against 16.22% in FY '23. And consolidated EBITDA margins are at around 14.98% for Q4 as against 11.29% for Q4 FY '23. And consolidated EBITDA margin for the year is around 16.72% for FY '24 as against 15.3% in FY '24. Material cost to sales ratio stand-alone basis has improved to around 32.08% from 35.58% in FY '23. And we are witnessing a price stability for majority of our procurement. As far as the guidance for 2025 is concerned -- FY '25 is concerned, we expect the stand-alone business growth of around 10.5% to 11% for FY '25. We expect that our EBITDA margins will further improve from 19.29% to 20.5% to 21%. Our consolidated business to grow at around 14% to 14.25% for FY '25 and consolidated EBITDA to improve further from 16.72% to around 18% for the financial year 2025. Having given all these numbers, I now request participants to ask questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Kunal Dhamesha from Macquarie.

The first question on our own U.S. plants are kind of cleared. How is that business shaping up? And have you started filing new ANDAs...

I'm sorry to interrupt, sir. Your voice is not clear. May I request you to use your handset?

Is it clear now?

Sir, please continue.

So how is our own U.S. business shaping up? And have we started filing ANDAs from our own plant as of now? And do we expect -- in an 18% EBITDA margin guidance, are we expecting our R&D expenses to go up?

Overall, let's say, that as far as U.S. is concerned, we have not started so far filing the ANDAs from our plants because it will take -- we had -- nothing we had in the pipeline for U.S. And pipeline is now building. So people are working now in R&D and thereafter, buyback shares will be taken. Stability will take a lot of time, 6 to 7 months' time and then data compilation. So it will take some time before we start filing as far as U.S. is concerned. As far as R&D is concerned, both companies put together are spending almost around INR 250 crore on R&D, which will translate into -- for ourselves and Unichem put together. And that translates into around 3.25% to 3.5% kind of expenditure to sales. And more or less, this number would remain in this particular range only as far as R&D is concerned. And the -- what was your next question?

So our U.S. -- our own U.S. dynamic sales, how has that shaped up post the plant clearance?

Let's say, post plant clearance, a lot of work was to be done as far as -- because we were not there for a long period of time. Somewhere the IP status changed, somewhere our vendor had changed, somewhere the processes are changed, so the -- [ also API ] has changed and all that. So that needs to be updated in all these kind of ANDAs and so all those activity are going on. And now finally, I think last few days back, first shipment has gone of one product and second product is in pipeline. And more products will be -- the shipment would start now. And a lot of places where the IP status -- sorry, USP status -- where pharmaco pills -- status has changed, a lot of works are going on right now. So that all the ANDAs are fully updated and then business starts. So hopefully, I think in current year, maybe around 6 to 7 products will be launched and that will be launched by the -- as the progress happens during the year here. So as far as sales are concerned, it does not include any sales as far as U.S. is concerned.

Okay. And while we have provided the outlook on a consolidated basis of around 14% top line growth, but can you provide more details on the business segment-wise growth, let's say, API, domestic API, export API and the generic business, et cetera?

Let's say, on a stand-alone basis, domestic business is expected to grow around 12%. Export generics will also have a similar kind of growth. The promotional market will have some kind of lower growth because of some issue being faced at -- because of currencies depreciation in Russia and also West African market, there are some certain challenges there. So there will be a little lower growth on that. And institutional business will deliver around 14% kind of growth. And we expect around 7% to 8% business growth in API side. So overall, Ipca, that should be around 11.5% -- 11% to 11.5% kind of growth would be there, yes. So that's the stand-alone number. And on a consolidated basis, the growth is coming a little higher because last year, I think on consolidation, Unichem was acquired in our second quarter. So consolidation is -- even second quarter number was not full. August, yes, it was August number was there. So second quarter number was also not full. So overall, that effect is also there in that. And overall, I think we should be almost around -- considering our business growth and Unichem's business growth, and overall, we should be almost around -- I think sales-wise, may be around INR 9,000 crores and EBITDA overall consolidation may reach to almost around INR 1,600 crore plus kind of EBITDA. So that will translate into that kind of number of 18%, 18.5% kind of overall.

And sir, just one last, if I may. When we say the INR 1,600 crores, apart from, let's say, the acquisition addition, the synergy number that we had at around INR 200 crores synergies, how much of that would be factored into the INR 1,600 crores?

If you look at Unichem, I think last financial year, they had -- I think EBITDA was minus by around INR 45 crores. From there, they have achieved an EBITDA of INR 100 crores. So there is a [ signal ] of almost around INR 145 crores, say, in the current year once after -- for the whole of the year. And as far as the changes are concerned, whatever the low-hanging fruits are there, like say, the material buying and somewhere rationalization, somewhere utility cost rationalizations and all those and maybe production efficiency improvement and all, these are the only factors so far that has come in the EBITDA margin. And a lot of other things which we are looking at, like, say, sourcing changes, let's say, from outside purchase to some of the APIs of Ipca and market extensions and those all work -- are all work in progress. API cost reduction is also work in progress because you need to do the stability and thereafter filings and then approvals and all. So those has not started to come in the overall EBITDA numbers right now. [Technical Difficulty]

Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management has been disconnected. Kindly stay connected while we try to reconnect. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently holding. The management's line has been reconnected. Over to you, sir.

So I would say that we are confident in whatever we had talked around acquisition time and all. We are confident that all those things will be achieved. And better than that would be achieved, yes.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Surya Narayan Patra from PhillipCapital India (Private) Limited.

Sir, my first question is about our -- although you have given the guidance for the current year, how should we see, sir, in fact, the overall growth for the integrated operations? So whether the benefit of integration has started flowing in or what portion of the integration benefit is yet to come in? And let's say, in terms of the growth, while the domestic is one of the largest earnings contributor for us, and it's been consistently delivering double-digit growth since many years, but from your -- what should be the real earning driver for us, whether it is some uptick that we should see in our export activities now, after seeing some kind of a moderation in the recent past, just like -- or what should really drive the earning momentum qualitatively from here for our next 2 years? If you can give some long-term oriented viewpoint then that will be really helpful.

Okay. As far as integrations are concerned, let's say, it's not a merger. It's -- both are separate companies and both are run as a separate companies, and Unichem has a Managing Director, and he runs that company. Integration benefits, whatever coming is relating to -- basically procurement is one area where integration reliefs we are getting the advantage. Significant advantages are coming in that because our buying efficiencies are much higher because volumes are much higher. So those advantages are definitely coming there. As far as the other areas are concerned, let's say, whatever work both the companies are doing and there are some duplications for there, so those duplications are now avoided. So it's -- that unnecessary cost of both the organizations were incurring, that is no longer there. So that's another benefit that's coming. Third is because of our expertise and utilities and also there are utility cost reductions and their operational efficiency on production side is also building up, so that's another advantage which is coming from integration. And Ipca is also able to extend some kind of expertise to them on cost reductions and all. Put together, both the companies and teams are working to reduce the cost of API, which was one of our major concerns for there. But getting the benefit will take some time because it's -- again, everything is regulatory -- regulated process and work is happening to reduce the costs and subsequently approvals and all. So it will may before some time -- it will take some time before those kind of approvals comes in. As far as synergies of procurement from Ipca of lower-cost API for them, it's again a process because they have started doing the R&D work and put in stability. Until the stability is all over and they go back to the regulators and take the approval of that source, until such time sources are added in their master files and all, they can't procure. So it's still to take the effect. So that effect will also take some more time.

Okay. About the export outlook, if you can give some sense around which market that you think can be meaningful? And also U.S., as you are saying that, okay, it will see a kind of a gradual ramp up only, but at least benefiting from the Unichem acquisition or leveraging the Unichem's presence, we want to at least penetrate faster, quicker for APIs at least to start with. On the export outlook front, if you can give some sense and if you can give some more clarity also about your key markets.

So bigger and bigger benefit of integrations will come of Unichem portfolio when we start putting all these Unichem's product in various markets like Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa, all those markets when we start putting those products. So that's the process currently going on. A lot of works are going on, on repeat bios and compiling all those kind of dossiers and all those, so that work is going on. So 'til the time that work is over, it's -- every project is being monitored and there are time lines for that. But it takes time. It is not that overnight those kind of work can be done. So the bigger benefit of that will come once, let's say, if cost portfolio of around 40, 50 formulations, and their portfolio of around 80 kind of formulations in generic markets. So all those becomes a significant size of number of products for the other markets. So that is the work which is currently work in progress. And that will give a larger integration benefit because even though Unichem is present in Europe, they are only marketing 5, 6 products whereas their U.S. market is more than 80 products. And currently, they are also selling a good number of products out of that, more than 50 products. So it's an integration that's going to be the key drivers and on that, we are working, but it will take time too because everything is regulated, and it has to be done in that particular fashion.

Okay. So then, sir, the 15% kind of a margin guidance for Unichem, what we had given, it is kind of a back-ended only, let's say, FY '26 or '27, like that?

No, I have not given any guidelines for Unichem. I have said consolidation guidelines are given. Unichem will still take some time. I said that, yes, we are on a path, whatever we have talked. So I have said that from INR 50 crores of minus EBITDA, they have reached to around INR 100 crore in current year. And we expect them to reach to almost around INR 225 crores in current year with all those kind of efficiencies what we are talking. But that will still not capture a lot of those things which we are currently talking, which are in progress. That's what I'm saying.

Okay. Just last one question since we are -- since it is the full year results performance that we are discussing. If you can give some sense about your key subsidiaries also because we have seen some impairment charge also relating to the credit that we have booked in this quarter. So how should we think all our investment into various core or noncore subsidiaries, and their performance for the current year?

Let's say, what subsidies we have is -- one is Onyx Pharmaceuticals, which is there at U.K. That's delivering all these -- the development of new manufacturing processes and all those kind of solid-state chemistry now. So that subsidiary is doing very well. I think their turnover may be around GBP 15 million to GBP 16 million, and they are a profitable company on a continuous basis. Second subsidiary in India is Trophic Wellness. They market the nutraceuticals and they have also delivered good profit in current year and they are in profit. Third subsidiary what we have is Bayshore. Now with Unichem coming in, Bayshore was created only to market Ipca's product. And now, since Unichem is a bigger setup, so the relevance of that and they were only marketing certain kind of products, which we are sourcing from some of the suppliers like from Bangladesh and some from India and all that. So it was a very small operations and it had its own cost. So Bayshore is one which will be now -- by and large, the entire operations will happen through, but not through Bayshore it's going to be from Unichem's -- Ipca's product will also be distributed in U.S. through Unichem and also whatever was being done from Bayshore, that will also get transferred to Unichem. So that's how the integration will happen. And another subsidiary that we have is Pisgah. That subsidy we have created -- subsidiary company we have created for CRAMS business in U.S. because we have a very successful business operating from U.K. in the name of Onyx. So it was an extension of that because right now, no services are being -- hardly there is any service to the U.S. company. It's all services being done by Onyx from -- to the European companies are there. So that is what we wanted to extend there. And some kind of, let's say, low volume and high value kind of API production that very small manufacturing facilities are there of certain narcotic products and all that kind of things. Onyx also has maybe 2, 3 new commercial API on their pipeline and development of new drugs. So that once the volume pick up, those kind of -- once they are launched in the market and all, the U.S. production may happen at Pisgah and certain other narcotic products are right now under development at Pisgah. So Pisgah has some small losses currently. With the CRAMS business building up, that will be not there. We have 2 associated companies. One is Avik. Avik is a steroid business and they're also delivering profit. The only company where we have not been able to still come in the green is Krebs, that's fermentation operations. This company was producing simvastatin and there, we have introduced some of our products like serratiopeptidase because we have a large amount of our own captive consumptions and all. So they have started producing that and -- but still, they have very large capacities and very large capacity fermenters. So we are looking for some kind of -- the other opportunity is also there in terms of contract manufacturing and all. So far, it has not happened, but we've seen progress to utilize their unutilized capacities, which are there on fermentation side. And as far as they have certain chemical blocks, which are being currently utilized. And those blocks are on the breakeven plus they are making profit. But on fermentation side, we still have loss and it may take some maybe 1 or 1.5 years' time before we start making profit from Krebs operations here.

The next question is from the line of Chirag Dagli from DSP Mutual Fund.

Sir, can you indicate in your guidance of INR 9,000 crores, how are you baking in the U.S. scale up? And just a little more color around the U.S. scale up over the next 3 years?

Let's say, we had almost around -- Ipca's around 18 products were approved I think in the last few months, and I think we have received almost around -- current month itself, we have received around 4 approvals. And prior to date, I think 3 or 4 approvals has come. So almost around 18 plus around 8 -- 7 or 8 approvals has already come. So that's the overall number we have. And then there are balance filings are there. So once those approval comes in. So right now, it's now whatever updations are required in those existing files in terms of change in the processes or change in the pharmacopeial status and all that, that work is going on right now. And at least around 6 to 7 products will be launched out of those kind of approved products in current financial year. And once all those updations are happened, then I think next year, the bigger ramp-up would happen because all those products will be commercialized in next financial year.

So FY '26, you should not only see the full impact of the 6 to 7 launches in '25, but also more launches?

Yes, yes. Yes.

So sir, these 25 that you have or 26 that you have as approved products, all of them should be in the market over 3 years. Is that how we should think about it?

Yes, that's true. Maybe a few out of that may not be viable now. So -- but there are very few because most of them are from our own API source. It's not an outsourced API. So -- but maybe there are a few maybe -- may or may not be market area.

Understood. And sir, can you also give some color around margins in the API and the exports business? Some very basic math suggests that these are businesses which are still in the early teens kind of margins. Does that make sense? And how have these behaved over the last maybe 3 years? [Technical Difficulty]

Sir, I'm sorry, the management's line has been disconnected. Kindly stay connected. I will try to reconnect them, yes. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently holding. The line for the management has been reconnected. Over to you, sir.

Chirag?

Sir, do you want me to repeat the question?

No, no, no. I think there is some problem in connectivity. Off and on, the lines are getting disconnected. Yes, Chirag?

Sir, do you want me to repeat the question?

Yes, yes, please.

Sir, I was asking on the segmental. How should we think about margins in the exports and API business, export formulations and API business at least over the last 3 years? And going forward, how are you thinking about these business margins?

Chirag, with this raw material prices now stabilizing, we are very confident our margins will improve going forward, 100 to 150 basis points next 2, 3 years. That is what is our guidance.

100 to -- over the next 3 years is what you're saying, sir?

Every year, 100 to 150 basis points.

Over the next 3 years, okay. Understood.

Our aim is to reach ultimately to that level of around 24%, 25% over the next 6, 7 years.

Understood, sir. And sir, over the last 3 years, have the margins for these -- both these businesses come down substantially? That understanding is right?

There was also a lot of fluctuation in the material cost. That was the primary reason. Even this year also, the margin improvement is basically on account of lower material costs, plus control over the overhead expenses, nothing else.

Understood, sir. Okay, sir.

Plus contribution from formulation business as a ratio of total business was higher where value addition is more. These are the 3 basic things, which added to this margin expansion.

[Operator Instructions] the next question is from the line of Bino Pathiparampil from Elara Capital.

Clarification on the margin, sir. If I heard right, you have given a more consol EBITDA margin guidance of 18% for FY '25. Correct?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay. And you also told -- had answered to one of the questions that Unichem should do around INR 225 crores of EBITDA in FY '25?

Yes.

To roughly calculate, the INR 225 crore is Unichem has to do, its EBITDA margin should go from around 6% last year to around 9.5%, 10% this year.

Yes.

So the entire EBITDA margin at the consol level increasing from FY '24 to '25 seems to be coming from Unichem. There is no significant improvement I can see in the rest of Ipca. Am I reading it correct?