Home / Transcripts / Lancashire Holdings Limited (LRE) · November 4, 2026

Lancashire Holdings Limited (LRE) Earnings Call Transcript

November 4, 2026

LSE GB Financials Insurance trading_statement 39 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Operator operator
#1

Hello, and welcome to the Lancashire Holdings Limited Q3 2026 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] Today, I am pleased to present Alex Maloney, Group CEO; Paul Gregory, Group CEO; and Natalie Kershaw, Group CFO. Please go ahead with your meeting.

Alexander Maloney executive
#2

Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for everyone who has joined us today. I'm pleased to report Lancashire's momentum continued in the third quarter, resulted in a strong underwriting and financial performance for the year-to-date. As usual, Paul and Natalie will provide more detail. But first, I would like to emphasize the key points from today's statement. Given the strong performance year-to-date, we expect to meet the guidance we have given and deliver a high teens RoE for the current financial year. Due to our strong operational performance so far in 2026 and our robust balance sheet, we have announced a special dividend of $182 million, equivalent to $0.75 per share. This will be paid to shareholders in early December and continues our long-standing approach of returning surplus capital to shareholders as quickly and as efficiently as possible. As we guided at the start of 2026, gross premiums remained stable on an underlying basis and the benefit of business written in prior underwriting years have delivered a modest 1% year-on-year increase in Insurance revenue. The loss environment in the quarter was mixed with active man-made losses, including the impact of the ongoing conflict in the Middle East, with a relatively benign catastrophe experience. As usual, we will provide guidance for 2027 when we report the current year's financial results in March. As you know, we are firm believers in the cycle, and we always actively manage our capital to match the underwriting opportunities available. And this has been our guiding principle at every stage of the market cycle we're in. So of course, you should expect to see us maintain a relentless focus on deploying capacity, only where risk-adjusted returns meet our expectations, whilst remaining committed and relevant to our core clients. Although this means we may limit exposures in some parts of our portfolio, we have a number of levers to help us manage this cycle that were not available or not to the same extent in previous periods. For example, our diversified business has many more product lines, each presenting different opportunities and risk and return profiles, so we can be agile and quickly allocate capital where it makes most sense. As a larger and more diversified group, we can use Reinsurance effectively to manage our net exposures whilst maintaining appropriate gross lines and of course, a benefit of a softening market is that this tool can be used to make us more efficient. Our balance sheet is well capitalized with prudent loss reserves and a conservatively positioned investment portfolio that can make meaningful contribution to Lancashire's financial performance. This ability to be agile and to maintain and to remain disciplined as we manage the cycle underpins our ability to deliver attractive returns to shareholders across the whole cycle. Over the past few years, we've made a priority to attract and retain the best talent to market. Lancashire has a high-performing experienced workforce that is deeply invested in the company's long-term success and understands how to navigate market cycles with discipline and confidence. We will continue to add skills, capabilities and product lines to ensure we not only manage this stage of the cycle appropriately, but we are set up for high levels of growth when the market turns. So as demonstrated by today's trading statement, I believe we are very well positioned as we approach 2027 and the challenges and opportunities it will undoubtedly bring. With that, I will now hand over to P.G.

Paul Gregory executive
#3

Thank you, Alex, and good morning, everyone. Turning to Slide 3. Our year-to-date performance reflects the strength and resilience of the Lancashire underwriting franchise. Gross premiums written of $1.8 billion are stable on an underlying basis, in line with guidance at the start of the year, and market conditions have also been as anticipated with a portfolio RPI of 93%. Within that, we continue to see different dynamics across the portfolio with the majority of product lines remaining rate adequate. Insurance premiums have increased by 5%, benefiting from growth in Energy and Marine lines related to both additional premiums associated with Marine War and the continued development of Lancashire U.S. We've continued to add new product lines to Lancashire U.S. with Property Facultative Reinsurance, the most recent addition, following environmental liability, financial lines and Inland Marine earlier this year. We'll enter 2027 with a suite of 7 product offerings. In London, we've added two product niches to our Marine offering following the hiring of two new underwriters, which will also be fully up and running in 2027. All of these new product lines will naturally mature in the next few years, and we will be patient and build them out in line with market conditions. Reinsurance premiums reduced by 6%, primarily reflecting less reinstatement premiums and our deliberate actions to reduce proxy retrocession exposure as we focus on cycle management, and continue to manage catastrophe risk and earnings volatility through the cycle. None of this is accidental. We have consistently said we will hire new underwriters that can add value to overall underwriting proposition whilst continuing to adjust net risk appetite, portfolio composition and capital deployment as market conditions evolve. The benefit of a larger, more diversified portfolio and product offering, is it gives us greater flexibility to manage the cycle. Not all products move at the same pace and are at varying levels of adequacy. Therefore, we have more options to reallocate between products, classes and geographies, bringing lower volatility to both top and bottom line. We also have broader reinsurance options available, allowing us to manage the cycle appropriately, maintain relevance with clients through the cycle. This flexibility and willingness to be agile and disciplined in the face of changing market conditions is one of Lancashire's key competitive advantages and allows us to continue generating attractive risk-adjusted returns even as the market transitions to softer phase of the cycle. Overall, we are very pleased with the underwriting performance year-to-date, and it demonstrates the value of our disciplined cycle management approach. We do anticipate the market to remain competitive in 2027, and that is exactly what we have planned for. Our Underwriting business is designed to manage the cyclical nature of the industry, and we'll continue to deliver attractive through cycle returns. I'll now hand over to Natalie to discuss our financial performance in more detail.

Natalie Kershaw executive
#4

Thanks, Paul, and good morning, everyone. Turning to Slide 4, I'll briefly cover financial performance, investments and capital. Starting with Insurance revenue. Insurance revenue increased by 1% to $1.41 billion. reflecting the continued earnings through of business written in prior periods. As Paul has described, there are a number of moving parts within the portfolio, but the business continues to perform well and the benefit of the diversification we've built is coming through. Turning to losses. Third quarter was benign from a natural catastrophe perspective. We did see some man-made loss activity, including from the ongoing conflict in the Middle East, but our exposure remains limited and well within our risk appetite. Overall, the loss experience has allowed the underlying profitability of the portfolio to come through in the year-to-date, and we remain on track to deliver our high teens return on equity for the year. Now looking at Investments. The Investment portfolio generated an overall return of 0.6% for the first 9 months. Investment income remained attractive but this was offset by unrealized mark-to-market losses in the third quarter, principally as government bond yields increased. Importantly, this does not reflect any deterioration in the quality of the portfolio. Our average credit quality remains AA-, and duration is relatively short at 2.2 years. At the end of September, the portfolio had a book yield of 4.6% compared with a market yield of 5.3%. So while higher yields have created some short-term mark-to-market volatility, they also allow us to reinvest at more attractive rates and will support investment income going forward. Finally, capital. Our capital position remains very strong. Our approach here hasn't changed. We retain the capital we need to support the business and take advantage of attractive underwriting opportunities. And while we have capital surplus to those requirements, we return it to shareholders. Given our strong performance and capital position, the Board has declared a special dividend of $0.75 per share. Even after that distribution, we retained significant financial flexibility to support the existing portfolio and invest in future opportunities. So overall, we're pleased with the financial performance for the first 9 months. The Underwriting business is performing well. Our Investment portfolio remains conservatively positioned, and our strong capital position allows us both to invest in the business and return excess capital to shareholders. We remain on track to deliver a high teens return on equity for 2026. And with that, I'll hand back to Alex.

Alexander Maloney executive
#5

Thank you, Operator. Can we go to Q&A, please.

Operator operator
#6

[Operator Instructions] We have our first question comes from Shanti Kang of Bank of America.

Shanti Kang analyst
#7

RPI today seems to being up a bit better than I was expecting. So that's good. How much of that do you think is maybe due to the actions that you've taken shifting the mix or stepping away from specific lines? And then just into 1/1/27, what's your base case for the rate environment there? And are there any lines that are holding up a bit better than others?

Paul Gregory executive
#8

Shanti, I'll take those questions. I think on the RPI today, -- to be honest, I think it's performing exactly as we expected it to -- at the start of this year, our guidance on our kind of view on what rating would do through the course of the year was kind of high single-digit rate reductions. And then as you can see, that's exactly where we are tracking. You can get -- depending on the quarter, you can get slightly different changes depending on business mix. But the business mix that we've had through the year is pretty much in line with our anticipation, and I think that's why the RPI is tracking exactly with what we gave guidance to at the start of the year. I think on your second question is as we move into '27 and as I said in my script, we definitely anticipating a continuation of softening. So we're going to be in a more competitive marketplace. I think as I also made reference to the majority of product reliance remain in a good position from a rate adequacy perspective. Undoubtedly, there are some parts of the market that are moving faster than others. I mean if you look at the casualty-based lines, they're far more stable than some of, say, the Property Insurance lines, which I think is very well documented that there's some quite high competitive pressures in things like Property, D&F, Open Market business. Look, our job is very much to try and balance our portfolio in the best possible way. There are parts of the market that are competitive, but that doesn't mean within that there are not pockets of good opportunity and accounts that have good rate adequacy. It's just in these environments, you have to be a bit more discerning with your underwriting in terms of the losses that -- in terms of the accounts that you actually underwrite. So look, we expect generally for there to be more softening. As Alex said in his script, as we get to March, we'll give you some more guidance as to where we think that will be across the portfolio in terms of the rating environment. 1/1 is the best kind of data point we will have, which is why we wait until after 1/1 to give you some guidance.

Operator operator
#9

Next question comes from Kamran Hossain from JPMorgan.

Kamran Hossain analyst
#10

First question is on the U.S. expansion. Just interested in kind of -- if you can give a bit more color on how far along you are in the U.S. expansion versus kind of where you want to get to? Just trying to work out how much of a tailwind it will be for kind of '27 and beyond? And the second question is just on the special dividend. Just wanted to confirm that the approach will probably be similar to last year that you announced a similar special dividend at the third quarter. Evaluate the opportunities at 1/1 and then return a little bit more capital with the full year results. So I just wanted to make sure the thought process going into 2027 looks kind of roughly similar to that.

Paul Gregory executive
#11

Kam, I'll take the question on the U.S. expansion and kind of where we are. I think, look, whenever we enter a new product line, we expect it to take at least 3 years to get up to maturity. So if you think about it, we started with two product lines, I would say they're close to maturity based upon the current market conditions we're in, obviously. We then entered general casualty. It's about 1.5 years now since we started that. So that's still building out. And then the more recent lines that we've added through the course of this year, really, they're only going to start -- some of them have started underwriting now, but 2027 is really going to be the first full year. So you will expect that U.S. operation to continue to grow and mature. As I often say, it will very much be aligned with the market opportunity. And we'll very much be patient in the market environment that we're in, but what it's doing is creating a very solid base for us for when the market inevitably turns in any of those product lines. So ultimately, yes, that will continue to be an area that will grow within our portfolio, but it will be very much aligned to the market opportunity.

Alexander Maloney executive
#12

I think as well, Kam, when we give our guidance for '27, we'll just give you a little more color on the U.S. operation and what we're trying to achieve. As Paul said, the reason we haven't really given much detail at this point, we still want to build that moat.

Natalie Kershaw executive
#13

Kam, I'll take the second question on the special dividend. Yes, essentially, you're exactly right. We look at capital at Q3 post [indiscernible] season and see what we're comfortable with returning at that point, but we always want to retain some flexibility going into year-end, the renewals and the outlook purchasing. And then we'll look again at capital at the next Board meeting in the first quarter of next year. So exactly right, that the process is similar to previous years.

Operator operator
#14

Next question comes from Alice Palumba from Goldman Sachs.

Alice Palumba analyst
#15

My question is on growth. So you mentioned in the release that you continue to hire talent, but this appears to be a departure from your earlier philosophy of shrinking when the market pricing weakens. Could you just help us understand how should we think about growth over the coming few years and the costs associated with these hires, should the market soften beyond current expectations?

Alexander Maloney executive
#16

Alice, I think where we can hire great talent, which obviously is important is retaining great talent in our business. We're just going to do that. And we've had a really good year of momentum where we continue to hire great people. And actually, even some of the recent M&A is an opportunity for Lancashire, it just displaces people. So where we can find great people, and grow products that diversify our book. And as you know, we've grown our diversification massively in this cycle. We're going to continue to do that. I think what won't ever change at Lancashire is how we manage the cycle. So we are obsessed with the cycle, and we believe we have the skills and the talent to manage this stage of the cycle. But we do fully intend to continue to add people where we can and product that we can. So that you shouldn't expect as the market softens, Lancashire to retreat as much as we did last time, but one thing that we will 100% do, we will reduce our risk levels mainly through Reinsurance as the market softens. So the net outcome will be the same, but we just may look different in this submarket.

Operator operator
#17

Your next question comes from Joseph Theuns from Autonomous.

Joseph Theuns analyst
#18

The first one I had was looking to get a bit more color on the growth in the Insurance book. And I was wondering if you could kind of give an indication of sort of how much of the -- of this was attributed to the new U.S. business compared to maybe some of the other areas that you called out? So that's the first question. And on the second, I was kind of wondering if you could give sort of a level of -- an indication of the level of reserves have been put aside for losses related to the Middle East and also kind of an idea of how this has progressed since Q2.

Paul Gregory executive
#19

Joseph, I'll take the first question. On the Insurance line, there's really been two areas where we have seen growth in premiums year-to-date. One is certainly the continued maturity of the U.S. operation, which you alluded to, and we called that out earlier this year when we were giving guidance around you would likely see growth there as those new lines continue to reach maturity. And then the second area, again, which I alluded to in my script is there has been additional premiums coming through in relation to marine-war, given the ongoing conflict. So we're seeing some benefit there. Elsewhere, things are relatively stable. Obviously, there's a few moving parts here and there, but they're the two drivers of what we've seen on the Insurance portfolio year-to-date.

Natalie Kershaw executive
#20

Joe, I'll take the second question on the Middle East reserves. As you have seen from the release, any losses that we do have from the Middle East are not -- certainly not material enough to disclose. As I said, our exposure remains relatively limited. We are underweight in the Middle East. So although we do have some losses, they are definitely not material and aren't having a material impact on our reserves at the moment.

Joseph Theuns analyst
#21

Understood. If I might just sort of quickly follow up on sort of the response to the first question. The -- is it sort of fair to assume that the sort of driver of the business sort of roughly equal sorry, in terms of the Insurance book the increased growth between the U.S. business and the sort of marine war, is it sort of roughly even?

Paul Gregory executive
#22

Sorry, Joseph, we don't provide that split. So unfortunately, I'm not going to about to answer your question on that one, apologies.

Operator operator
#23

Your next question comes from Will Hardcastle from UBS.

William Hardcastle analyst
#24

The first one, just to follow up on Marine. Just trying to understand, are these sort of just taking the opportunity because the industry pricing has changed or the sort of temporary one-off covers sort of very specific conflict related debt. If the conflict eases, they would go away next year. Just trying to think about the sustainability of those. The second one is a much more bigger picture question. Look, it seems cycle trends are very much at play and pure follow capacity providers will likely be most vulnerable at this stage of the cycle. I guess what are some of the things that Lancashire can differentiate itself relative to these players, ensuring maybe at terms pricing, access to risk, can hold up better than the market?

Paul Gregory executive
#25

Will, I'll take the first question. I mean, Alex take the second one. So on the Marine, yes, it's very much -- the kind of the increase that we've seen is very much conflict related given the pricing terms and conditions have spiked quite dramatically as you would expect because the risk has increased quite significantly as well. Obviously, we start from a position of being relatively underweight. So we're able to underwrite more of that business, particularly given how we've seen the pricing change. Obviously, if the conflicts were to end, then those opportunities won't be as prevalent. So I'm not going to start trying to anticipate when the conflict may or may not end, but they are very much conflict related to those premiums that we're seeing.

Alexander Maloney executive
#26

So Will, on your second point, I think it's a really question because there's been a lot of changes in our industry in recent years, and people have very different strategies. I think our one is we want to be an underwriter that has sort of the best underwriters, we have great relationships with clients. So we want to be in that sort of [indiscernible]. We don't write the follow broker facilities. And that's not really same we're interested in. Obviously, some people think that's a great opportunity. That's not really what we're trying to achieve here. Equally, I think Paul made the comment earlier, you're at this stage of the market that's now softening, that's no surprise to us. We are obsessed with the cycle. So there's no surprises here. But I think what it does tell you is if you're going to write some of these trackers, if you want to call it that, probably the time to write the trackers is when the market is rock hard and then you've really got to start underwriting as the market softens. So the market is obviously softening now in various classes of business. Exactly as Paul said, in every class of business, even the most obviously, difficult one this year is Property Insurance. We just wouldn't be comfortable writing a tracker of these kind of classes as the market gets more difficult. So we just think you've got to be more active when the market is softening. You definitely want to pick your trades, you've got to pick your way through the account I don't see how you do on a passive basis. So it's not for us, we know what we want to do. That's why we talk about talent so much, what is why we're obsessed with trying to get and retain the best people. But yes, other people have different strategies, but the follow tracker passive strategy is not for us.

Operator operator
#27

Next question comes from Abid Hussain from Panmure Liberum.

Abid Hussain analyst
#28

I've got two questions. The first one is on casualty. I know it's only a quarter of a year since we last spoke, but is there anything worth calling out on the buildup of that book? And then the second one is on the U.S. build out. Are you seeing any opportunities to accelerate the build out, for example, M&A or team lift in the U.S?

Paul Gregory executive
#29

So on casualty, nothing materially different to what we spoke about last quarter, our portfolio. But this year has been relatively stable, which is very much in line with expectations. Let me always say casualty, the casualty market is a very broad church and there are some moving parts underneath it, we obviously write predominantly a casualty Reinsurance portfolio, and we'll obviously try and maneuver that portfolio in line with where we think the better rated parts of the market are and one of the key objectives on the casualty Reinsurance book is making sure that we try to pick the right underlying clients and those that have historically proved that they manage the cycle appropriately. And they have the best mechanisms in place to manage claims. And that's how we believe we will manage the casualty cycle appropriately. But we're very comfortable with the portfolio we have built. And as I say, it's been pretty consistent this year.

Alexander Maloney executive
#30

So I think your question about the U.S., if I just take you back to the way we think about everything at Lancashire is when we entered the U.S., it was all about we would travel as fast as we could only if we can find the right people. So we don't set ourselves hard goals on premiums or products or timing, it has to be when that we can get the appropriate people. But then other times, a bit like buses, 3 coming on at once, and we added 3 more product lines in the last sort of 3 to 4 months. So I think we're always -- our growth in that market is always going to be driven by the people we can find and the talent we can hire. Again, like all of our product lines, these products in our U.S. operation, again, Property Insurance, where we haven't written as much premium as we expected and other lines that have done better. M&A for us, in general, same applies to the U.S. I can never say it's going to be impossible, I would never do it, but I still think it's unluckily. And again, you have to be super disciplined about any M&A, what are we actually buying, does it accelerate? Of course, we would like to accelerate our U.S. operation, if you could find the perfect coming into approach it we would, most things that are presented to us don't hit the hurdles that we have internally. So again, not impossible, but probably highly unlikely.

Operator operator
#31

Next question comes from the line of Ben Cohen from RBC Capital Markets.

Benjamin Cohen analyst
#32

I had two, please. The first was on the higher Investment yield environment that we're in at the moment or sort of the shift up in yields that you've seen. I just wonder how that's changing your view of relative attractiveness as to where to deploy capital going into next year? Any sort of view in terms of kind of casualty hurdle rates in particular? And I guess a related question, just to be clear, in terms of your sort of returnable capital as we saw with the special dividends. Does sort of unrealized investment losses here have any have any impact? Or is there anything else we should think about from a yield point of view when we're thinking about the sort of size of capital returns that you might do through the rest of the year?

Denise O’Donoghue executive
#33

Ben, it's Denise O'Donoghue. Yes, definitely a higher investment yield changes your outlook in terms of if you're getting paid to go a little bit out the curve, which I think we need to see a little bit more stability because I think rates have already moved back down slightly from the September 30, which we've made back some of our losses -- mark-to-market losses. But yes, it definitely is an opportunity depending on there's a lot going on with inflation and Middle East, et cetera, but we definitely see an opportunity to extend duration a little bit. Which ties into your question about casualty, which we try to match those cash flows. It makes sense to go a little bit longer.

Paul Gregory executive
#34

And just to be clear on the casualty underwriting, Ben, we underwrite casualty on the basis that we believe that there's underwriting margin in it. We don't factor into account what could potentially happen on the other side of the balance sheet. Our underwriting focus is very much on margin within underwriting.

Natalie Kershaw executive
#35

Ben, it's Natalie. On your question on returnable capital, obviously, the unrealized losses do impact our capital position because they do hit shareholders' equity. Obviously, in a sense, are not a real loss and we expect that to unwind over time, which then will give us more capital available to return should the unrealized losses unwind, which we expect they will do over time. So hopefully, that helps with your second question.

Benjamin Cohen analyst
#36

Could I just follow up? Just -- I mean, I guess, where I was getting to the first question was as well as in terms of the Underwriting portfolio. Does that -- and I'm aware that you're trying, obviously, to underwrite for an underwriting profit everywhere. But does that shift the relative attractiveness, if you like, of different lines? And where is that in your thinking at the moment planning into next year?

Alexander Maloney executive
#37

So I don't think it changes our view. I think the broader question for the industry is we're really attractive investment returns going forward, does that allow the Underwriting climate to get weaker over time. And the real answer is no one knows. But as I said, for us, we just don't really think that way. We think very separately on underwriting and very separately on investment returns.

Operator operator
#38

Your next question comes from Daniel Wilson-Omordia from Morgan Stanley.

Daniel Wilson-Omordia analyst
#39

I guess First question would be on how you're thinking about the mix between pricing and T&Cs from here. I think clearly, the consensus is the environment gets incrementally weaker next year. But the question for me is, do you think the pricing or the terms conditions are more vulnerable here? Do you think the pricing is kind of at its limit and T&Cs could be the next kind of topic of negotiation? Or do you think the T&Cs will hold quite firm into next year? It would be good to get your perspective on that. In addition, just wondering if you could remind us how flexible you are in adjusting your Reinsurance or retro buying next year if you continue to buy more retro if the opportunity presents itself? Or are you happy with your current protections? Those two for now, would be great.

Alexander Maloney executive
#40

So I think let me just give you a flavor on Question 2. I think across the board, we are going to manage our underwriting portfolio. So as earnings decrease, as the market softens for everyone, we will look to the performance of Reinsurance. And as our business is more diversified and broader, that gives us more opportunity and we've actually bought more Reinsurance already for '26, particularly on the cat portfolio. So yes, you are going to see us buying probably more reinsurance if the market continues to suffer, which is what we expect. And obviously, with the portfolio we have, that gives us lots of different options. Also, Lancashire is a very different business to what it was the last time the market softened. So again, the products that we buy -- products that we already buy actually, are different that we bought in the past. So in the past, we've pretty much bought particularly on the non-marine cat side, we just bought retro. And already, we buy multiple products to protect our cat portfolio. So yes, you will see us buying more reinsurance as the market softens, I see spend will probably change over time, as you would expect. But as I said, everything is about managing the cycle, everything is about making sure that you know how to navigate soft markets. And we just believe that at this stage of the cycle, at this stage, the cycle for everyone in the next few years, you're going to be at to work out who can manage the cycle, who can't manage the cycle and then fundamentally, as much as the market always softens, there's always an opportunity. And even now everything we're doing today is to get us ready for the next turn in the cycle. If you think about what we've done last time, we manage the cycle down in a very different way that we don't have to this time. But fundamentally, we came through the soft cycle and we were ready to go for the hard market, and we've more than tripled our book. So already, we're thinking about the next opportunity and what we're going to do when that arises.

Paul Gregory executive
#41

And Daniel, on your first question, I think, yes, you're right. But this year, I think across most product lines, if there's been a focus in terms of what clients are looking for, it's certainly been more on the pricing side than it has on the terms and conditions side. As we've said, we expect more competitive pressures in a number of lines as we move into '27. And I still think price will be a big focus for buyers. As you move through any cycle into a softening phase that we inevitably be, some focus coming on to terms and conditions. And I'm sure in some product lines that will be the case in 2027. But kind of linking it back to what Alex has just talked about, that also means the terms and conditions we can get on our own protections, we will also have more options.

Alexander Maloney executive
#42

I think there's one other point, Daniel, just let's be very clear about our view where we are. I do not think of this as a soft market. I'm not saying it won't be a soft market at some point because there always is. But if you look at the aggregate rate you've had in most product lines versus the rate reduction you've given for the last 2 years, we're pretty comfortable where we are. As I said, I'm never going to say it won't turn into a soft market. But I'm not -- I still think we're in the softening phase. And your question about terms and conditions and pricing, you're at the phase where the brokers are asking for everything but they're trying to find where the market is at. So it's for the underwriting community to make sure they don't give the brokers everything they want at this stage of the cycle.

Operator operator
#43

There are no further questions at this time. I'll turn the call back over to Alex.

Alexander Maloney executive
#44

Okay. Thank you, everyone, for your questions today, but we will close the call there.

Operator operator
#45

This now concludes our conference call. Thank you all for attending. You may now disconnect your lines.

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