Multiconsult ASA (MULTI) Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning, and welcome to this Capital Day 2019 for Multiconsult. My name is Grethe Bergly, and I am the CEO of Multiconsult. I will give you -- I will start giving a presentation. And later on, our CFO, Hans-Jørgen Wibstad, will also give a more insight into the figures and where we are on this journey. This is the agenda. I will start giving you a little bit insight into the journey that Multiconsult have had since the last Capital Markets Day in November 2019. I'll also tell you a little bit about how we have actually gone about with the turnaround that we are seeing the effects of at the moment. Hans-Jørgen will give you some more insight into the market. We'll have a break. I'll give you a presentation on the way forward. And given these COVID-19 days, Herman Smith will not be presenting. He's in quarantine but I will take that session as well. Then Hans-Jørgen will give you more details on the nextLEVEL program, what's behind the figures that we are reporting. And insight into our financial targets before I have a final word and wrap it up at around 11:30. For those of you who are listening on the webcast, it's possible to send in questions, and we will take a session with those at the end of the presentation. We called this On A Journey. And if we look at the results that we are delivering compared to the same period last year, you can see that we've had a positive journey on our operating revenues. And year-to-date, we are now delivering NOK 2.7 billion. We have an adjusted margin of 11.8% compared to the same time last year. On the nextLEVEL program, we are delivering NOK 138 million of the target of NOK 150 million. We are well ahead of the plan of improving our financial position with NOK 150 million. Important on this journey has been the other OpEx ratio, and we are now running at a 15.8%, meaning that we are now getting close to the level of the competitors that we like to compare ourselves to. And it has, as I'm sure, a lot of the people listening in today had a significant effect on the value of the company. And I am pleased but this means that the results of our hard work is also now proving itself in the underlying value of our company. This is the share prices on the 30 of September. Rumors say, it's slightly higher today. And I would also say, I would like to take the opportunity to thank all the investors who stuck by us all throughout the difficult time. And the value of the company is important for you, as owners, but it's also important for us to work here because it gives us the possibility to realize more of the ambitions of where we want to take this company in the future. And we don't forget that all this value is created by these people that are employed with us. We have roughly the same number of employees this quarter as we had in the third quarter in 2019. This is in line with the ambitions of nextLEVEL. We knew there was some efficiency improvement that can -- that could be done. And at the same time, this is our main asset and they are extremely important to us. And I also have to take the opportunity to thank everybody who work for us, who has taken part in this enormous effort to turn the company around. Central in the work that we have had is to concentrate on our core business. Our core business is project execution and to get projects we have to do good sales. If you'll also -- on this side, you can see good improvement. We've had an order intake of NOK 3.2 billion and we are leaving this quarter with a solid backlog of NOK 3 billion. So as you could see, all the arrows are pointing up. And when you get an effect of everything pulling in the same direction, you can create magnificent results. And I am so pleased and proud about being allowed to have a magnificent company who have showed what they can actually create of the value also for our clients. [ Agency ] is at the forefront of our head, and we have so far had nobody has been infected at work during the COVID-19 situation, showing prudent action like today, not taking people in, if there is a danger of contamination, and this is a figure that we hope to maintain. But then what is it really all about? Because what we saw now is just figures. And I would like to show you now some of the examples of projects that we have completed in the last period. And then I will also give you an insight into some of the fantastic projects. That we will -- that we're just at the starting points of completing. This summer, the main library in Oslo opened up for the public. This is a huge building of 19.6 thousand square meters. It was just awarded the prestigious Concrete Award, Betongtavlen. You probably have to be an engineer and an architect to appreciate The Concrete Award. But let me tell you that what we're seeing here is an enormous engineering achievement. And this cantilevered roof requires a vision. It requires engineers who can design it and it also requires contractors who can build it. So it's showing some of the best engineering technology that you can see in Norway. And it will be, I'm sure, a place for generations to come and to be part of such a building is fantastic. This is the Finansparken, Stavanger. It is the largest wooden building in Europe. Again, won lots of awards and we have been part of the engineering team for this one. Ski Station is maybe a story of how long things take. We started on this project in 2006. This was before the ambitions for the Intercity investments and we -- only this summer, it was opened. And again, an important communication point for the population who will be commuting to Oslo and also a credit to our people in designing within the railway station. Campus Ås. Except hospitals, I don't think we find any larger buildings in Norway. It's the co-location of the Veterinary Institute and the University of Life Sciences. It's a compare -- it contains one of the most advanced research facilities in the country and also some of the most advanced teaching facilities. Again, we have been part of this for over 10 years with a team and to a large extent, this team is now being moved to the next big project that I will show you in a while. Still to be empowered by Multiconsult and our partners, this is an example of a road project, huge bridge, 11 point -- 11 kilometers of roads. An example of what we mentioned a year back, we're seeing that more and more, we are working in close cooperation and alliance with international contractors. And also to win this project, you actually had to prove that you were able to reduce the CO2 footprint of the construction and to have engineers who are able to find such solutions is going to be extremely important in the future. Ocean Space Centre in Trondheim, part of the Norwegian government's vision to create Norway as the point of gravity for ocean technology research. Very important also for the community here, the university and the research institute center, and we are part of the engineering team in one of these projects. Hospitals, in our strategy, we had that we wanted to be one of the leading suppliers within hospitals. With Gaustad, we are confirming this position. With our architects LINK and other partners, we have been elected as the engineering designers for this enormous development that's taken place in Oslo. Another area that's strategically important for us is infrastructure. And the Fornebu one is probably the most complex transport project going on in Norway at the moment. With our partner, Cowi, we are developing a whole new railway line. Very important also for developing the city and the areas around the stations. High-tech technology, extremely complicated. It's going to go through some of the most busy traffic areas in Oslo, and we are very pleased to have been chosen for this very important task. I'll also take you through the turnaround because I think it is important, and I hope you're a bit curious about how did we do it. We came from acquisition where we, as a company, had falling results for quite a while. And when I took on this job, it was in the conviction knowing that we had a solid foundation. We were a company with highly skilled people. We had competent leaders. We had strong client relations. We had a strong project portfolio. We also had a history going back more than 100 years. And we also -- when we just looked for it, we found this culture of empowerment. So the key for me and my management team has been to adjust, not to transform. And when you start such a journey, you need to know why, what, how and who. And you need to decide where do you start. And my experience is that your starting point should always be that you agree on where you are. What are our main challenges? What are the areas that we need to improve? And to establish this current state of affairs has been totally fundamental to all the work that I've been doing since I came in, in March. The next one is make sure that you act on fact. Any people could tell you a story. They could say this is the reality. Make sure that you create a support system that gives you the ability to act on fact. And that's what we've been doing. We've been building up and making it possible also for our leaders to take the right decision. Then we focus and that for the last 1.5 years, you have heard the same story, core business. Let's get back to core business. Don't ever lose your eye on the core business. And for us, that's project execution and sales. And those are the 2 areas we've been working on consistently for the last 1.5 year. And as you see, we now have better project execution. We see that we have a reduction in write-downs. We have control over our portfolio, and we have the good sales. And when you get this and people get enough projects to work on, then you get a fantastic sort of movement in the whole organization. The other thing you have to do is to set clear expectations, and then you have to demand really commitment. Because this was not a situation where you could choose what you wanted to do. So we have been very, very clear on what's expected from everybody. And then we have also invited, in particular, some of the other top management groups to give their insight into what are you going to commit to. And it's always interesting, and you can have -- this is maybe more believing than proving. But if you ask people do as good as you can and you get a bit of competition we've seen that, that has been a very, very positive effect in our organization. And then you have to follow-up and you have to measure. And we've had a very transparent follow-up we have shared. And in that sense, we've also managed to benchmark the different units, and we managed to share the best practice. You have to show some courage as well. You have to make some tough decisions. And I was very clear when I came that I was prepared to take the decisions that was needed to get this company on the right track. And I must honor the rest of my team because they have showed courage. We have taken the decisions, and we're managing now to get this company on the right track. And last but not least, you have to have the right people in the right positions. And this is the journey then. We started in March. We started with a low-hanging fruit. We started analyzing. We started benchmarking. We started looking at our peers, and we started setting the target. And from then onwards, in the sort of late autumn of 2019, it was setting the mandate, setting the KPIs, getting the organization working in the areas where they themselves could see. Here, we have an improvement potential. The turnaround. To get a new team was vital in the turnaround. And we now have a top executive team with a combination of extensive knowledge of the business, but we've also had some new people coming in, and that has been very important as well because you do need to be challenged. You do need to get another perspective. And to have the experience and knowledge of people like Hans-Jørgen that you all met has also been important on this journey. Then the prioritization of core business, and also an action plan based on fact. And our success is made possible by strong commitment in the organization. We've seen that we managed to create the results and they are lasting results. That's been important that we have sort of -- you put one stone on top of the other. This is not a quick fix. But we are now making a much more stable and sustainable organization. We built on the strong culture that we have, the extreme competence that we see in the organization and we use our insight and -- to get out the capabilities that we see in the organization. We've had the courage to set the target, and we've also now seen exceptionally commitment from everybody during the COVID-19 situation. And central in the things that we are working on at the moment is pulling together One Multiconsult. To have a culture where we think we own our people, we own our employees, our people, our project and our clients together. And if there's one thing that COVID had proved to us is that geography doesn't really matter. So being able to pull out the right people for the right jobs, I'm sure that we're going to see even more of that in the future. And with this, I hand you over to Hans-Jørgen, who will take you through markets and sales.

Thank you, Grethe. Very interesting. And it's been important for us also to go through what actually -- why did all of this happen. So it's -- I think it's been an interesting journey for all of us, Grethe, and thank you for that. I will go through the market. Just a quick review of what we have done recently, and then turn the main focus being on the way forward and kind of some perspective into where we see [indiscernible] in the market with the existing uncertainty as well as what we have in hand. So this is summarizing the numbers that you've largely seen before with sales pretty much being on par with the same level last year, but with the -- with some variation in the business area. We see that within the Greater Oslo area as well as in region Oslo. And in energy -- and in international, we're seeing that generally, it's a healthy growth in the various areas. So overall, and given the situation we're in, we're quite happy, as we have mentioned several times with the sales and the sales efforts of the business. And as a consequence of that, the backlog has increased 11%, as has been mentioned a few times before. It's stable around NOK 3 billion, which is a reasonably comfortable level for Multiconsult. We're always working very hard to increase it, and it varies a little bit. So there are some short-term contracts, some long-term contracts. And it varies in time as far as execution is concerned, but we're seeing that the gross figure is growing and we're very happy with that. We're also seeing that they also -- location-wise within Oslo, Norway, et cetera, that the order backlog and generally, is growing. And that's thanks to a very, very strong effort by the group and the focus, as Grethe said, has been on the core business and on sales and project execution. So we're seeing some of the effects of that. Of course, when we look back when we tune back to what -- where we were in March and February with the COVID, we were very uncertain about the situation, but we quite quickly realize that everyone, including ourselves, but also our clients wanted to get going on these various projects. Now we've mentioned a few times that we're seeing a little bit of possibly some slowdown in short- and medium-sized projects, particularly maybe in the Oslo region. That maybe impact our short-term sales a little bit. But at least as a backbone, we have a strong order backlog. And although this is something, we're agile and we're watching it. We're not extremely concerned, but we're watching it and we are ready to take action if and when, if that should occur, that there is a certain slowdown. But also very important to keep in mind that we have these big frame agreements with key clients, very large clients. We have Rikshospitalet and Gaustad. We have, we have Fornebu [ bond ]. We have some major projects, which are anywhere from 5 to 10 years. So it is a good foundation for the business. And we're also seeing that our relationship with our clients and customers, I think, has improved over the last year. We've always had a good relationship with the client. But certainly, we have -- we've focused a lot on keeping that and enhancing that both with our clients and also with other partners within our industry in general. So this is kind of addressing what I just said. If you look at the macro picture, the state budget, [Stortinget] for 2021, which is very important, 80% of our business. More than 80% of our business is in Norway so it's very important. It looks pretty good. Of course, there were some reductions in the public road administration's budget, NOK 3 billion. But still, it's a quite a large budget there, even though there has been an increase. And we're also seeing it on the railway side that it's a solid growth. The national transport plan, which is very important for us, and companies within our sector is also a positive sign with growth in that. It was very ambitious. We might see some slowdown or some reductions in that very, very high ambition as we move forward. But still, it is a good growth. We're expecting continuous good growth, but maybe not -- maybe we'll see a slight reduction in the growth rate, but from a high level to still a healthy level. Then we've talked quite a bit about the COVID. I don't think I need to repeat that. Of course, we were in a situation with a lot of uncertainty in the summer, where things were kind of -- seems to be normalizing. Now we're seeing a different picture that we all observe around us. We think that there is a strong commitment from us, from our peers, from our, from our clients, from the society to keep the society going. But at the same time, of course, maybe particularly on the private sector, there is some uncertainty. Maybe on office premises, for instance, that kind of thing, where -- are we going to build more office premises now? Or are there -- is there enough out there? And we're also seeing that on the public sector, even though the public sector is a positive for us. We're seeing that the local kommuner and fylke, they are, of course, very busy with COVID and also spending money and time on that. So that is delaying some of the decisions because of this overall situation. So that is kind of the qualification on the overall market outlook, but it is impacting us a little bit. I've talked about this slide before -- earlier and at the third quarter presentation that we're -- we have a good portfolio of exposures in different industries and areas. Buildings & Properties being, by far, the largest, 40%; Transportation, growing. All of them are growing, except renewable energy. But certainly, Transportation, we're very -- we have a positive view on that as we move forward. 29% Water & Environment, a good important position we have there, very important with, for instance, the ESG -- within the ESG area, renewable energy, same industry. I'll come back to each of these business areas. So overall, we have a balanced portfolio, and we are very happy with such an exposure. I'll go through each and every one of these areas, starting with Buildings & Properties, which is the largest. We're seeing that the sale has been good in the area, even though it's been slightly declining maybe in last quarter, but the backlog has grown from last year to this year. We're saying that the market outlook is flat on that, where that is the yellow arrows on the chart, both on the short-term and long term. Overall, we see an increased number of projects in the public sector. We have this COVID effect that I mentioned. And there is also increased competition on all projects. I think we'd like to mention that. With possibly a somewhat decline in the market, the price pressure may be a factor. We don't know. We hope not, but it's something which is natural in a competitive environment that may occur in a -- when the market tightens. So -- but overall, with some short-term maybe uncertainties, we are quite optimistic on that. And we have so many various positions within this Buildings & Properties, which also includes our architecture, of course. So a quite okay outlook, but we're watching it very carefully. Transportation, a little bit of the same in the short term. But given the national transportation plan and what we're seeing in terms of commitment to the transportation sector. We are very optimistic in the long term. We have good and interesting positions, both on rails and roads and others. So we're quite happy with that. We're seeing that sales has been going up in the Transportation from last year. So we're quite happy with that. We're also seeing that there's an increase in the number of international contractors coming into Norway, competing for the big jobs, which for us is fine because we work well with the Norwegian and Nordic contractors, but we also worked very well with global and international contractors. For us, that's fine. With the internationals coming in, I think that's kind of a neutral situation for us. So even though you may hear that from other -- in our group in our industry at large, it's -- for us, it's -- I would say it's okay. We work, as I said, very well, with both Norwegian, Nordic as well as the global international players. Water & Environment, very interesting position in the -- especially in the long term. There is a maintenance lag. We read quite a bit about that in our -- in the news flow quite often. We have strong positions in that already with, for instance, the water supply to Oslo. It's a very important contract for us. And we're also seeing that the sales and order backlog has grown that for that. So also there, in the short term, flattish outlook. We are a little bit cautious, not down, but flattish. But long term, we are we believe this is -- this will be very, very important for us and will create quite a bit of opportunities on leveraging on what we already have, which is good. So -- and as I mentioned also, the growing market for ESG adoption is one of the key drivers for that. And in particular, also the maintenance lag. There are some monstrous figures in terms of maintenance lag in this area. Some of it may actually come true and some of it will not, but it's -- I think the overall picture is quite good on that. Moving over to renewable energy. We mentioned that a few times being an attractive position we're in. There are some slowdowns in the short-term with, for instance, wind power. We all heard discussions in Norway about wind power, some reductions there. We're also seeing that there is some sort of slowdown or flattish on the hydro power water side, hydropower plants. But we also have this tax relief that was announced earlier this year, which we believe could be positive in the long term. We also have some interesting positions within sun, within wind, within offshore. Wind, and overall, we have a positive view, and it's an area where we see great good opportunities going forward. And of course, the macro outlook for renewable energy is positive. And as earlier mentioned and mentioned several times, it's an area where we are prepared to invest because we see a good future for that. And we have also good customer positions, although we are a small player in it. We can leverage on our existing business, and we have very, very competent people, specialists within this area. So that's -- I think that is the picture with renewable energy at the moment. Industry is -- we all hear about -- or many of you hear about some interesting development in Norway with carbon capture, hydrogen and battery manufacturing plants which are set up. We're seeing that the big industrial players and companies are investing in Norway again. We have long relationships with these companies and we believe that this will create both short-term and long-term opportunities. Even though this is a quite a small area for us, we think it's -- we are very happy to see the recent developments. And we've seen that the developments during the last 9 months has been positive for us. And we've been able to leverage those positions as we move forward. We also have the situation with the land-based aquaculture, which is very interesting. Cities & Societies is also an interesting area, which is -- also we have generally a positive view on. It's quite a small area for us. But these are city developments, like, for instance, this new city, which is almost under development in Lier, which is close to Drammen, called Lierstranda, we'll show you some pictures later, where we are involved in developing cities. Of course, it's an important thing, both with -- both from an environmental point of view, but also as -- for society as a whole. And we have, again, good positions in that. We have some projects and customers to leverage on. So we're seeing good opportunities there. Again, we are quite cautious in terms of outlook in the short term. But for the long term, this is an area which we believe, and I think it's general belief that there will be a lot of money flowing into this area, both from the public sector but, like in Lierstranda, we also see that from -- with -- from private players. Oil and gas. It's an area which was important for Multiconsult many years back and also is important still. We have had good sales there. We have our very narrow niches. We're not into production. We're into kind of foundations and infrastructure on that. And platforms but -- and concrete. So it's not we're into the production of that. But short term, it's okay. We see that we have growth in the area. The long-term outlook is following the society as a whole. We've said that, that is a red for us, and it's going down for the long term. And -- but we have very, very valuable and very, very useful people working around the area. It's a small area for us. And even if this is an area where -- which may go down -- gradually down for us, it's -- we can utilize this both the competency and also the people in other areas. So we will follow the market. But overall, we're not worried about this expected decline in this area because the competence and the people we have there, it can be utilized in a wide range of other areas, which is complementary to other things we're doing. So I think that pretty much covers my review of the market. Lars is here. He's our sales director and market expert. So if you have any questions afterwards, Lars can also be able to answer some of that. But I think to summarize things, we're seeing pretty stable market going forward with the COVID uncertainty in the very short term. But I think the overall long-term market outlook for us is good as we have repeated several times. And given the way the society is going, I think we're well positioned to leverage on that and also with our existing client base. Thank you. I think then we have -- a little bit ahead of schedule. We'll have a break.

We can go back at 10:15.

10:15. So we follow...

We keep the schedule.

We keep the schedule. Okay. Thank you. See you later in a while. [Break]

Welcome back to this second session of our Capital Markets Day. And where I will start giving you some insight into how we see the way forward. We go back to Capital Market Day in November last year. We said that for rapid change, our surroundings will change our business as we know it. And even more important, it will create new opportunities for new products, new business models and new ways of working. And to succeed on this journey, action is required. And we put up on the board 4 of the major drivers as we could see them in the coming period. This was related to sustainability, digitalization, changing the way we work in the value chain and how people moving into the cities will change our surroundings in society. If we look at what is also often named environmental, social and governance, ESG, or sustainability, we have now maintained our position as a major player. You will see that Multiconsult, we are involved with solar power, wind and hydro power. I know that I got a question a year back if we are actually involved with offshore wind. We knew then that we were just about to sign a deal with the 2 major offshore wind power plants, one just outside New York and one, the big one, Hywind Tampen in Norway. We are continuing our work on that. And we're also seeing new opportunities in this area. We have a major -- a good competence when it comes to water management. It's getting wetter. Water is becoming a challenge when it's too much or if it's too little. And to be part of the solutions on how we deal with water is an issue that we think will also be, as Hans-Jørgen said earlier, will be a growth market for us. Another effect of the climate changes is the increased flood and landslides. And being involved with our clients to see how we can find preventive measures to secure infrastructure, houses, people. And also, we are involved with research and development, and I'll show you one example on this. And there are 2 areas that have become much stronger and more evident in the -- also in the news in the last 12 months. And that's to do with circularity, circle economy. It will also hit us as an industry, and we are prepared. We are already involved in finding solutions on one of the major challenges maybe for society as a whole and also civil protection. Renewable industry is at a record high level. Some of you might have seen that we just handed over to the government, Norwegian government, the increase in turnover that we see in the renewable industry, and it has an increased factor of 30% and it stands now at a value of NOK 45 billion. Renewable is also to do -- and environmental sustainability is to do with how we're going to construct and build in the future. This is an example where we have been played a major part with our architects, LINK, on developing a shop, and it's one of the first one to be classified under the Zero-CO2 certification system. The point is, we have the skills, we have the knowledge, and we are able to support and help our clients in their ambitions on reducing the CO2 footprint of buildings. At the same time, in Norway, we have also been a major player on this ZEB Flexible Lab. Again, a zero-emission building built in Trondheim, a technical university there. And it will provide a real-life size laboratory for the research institute, SINTEF, and the university to find new solutions on energy supply, use of materials, how these buildings are to live in for the people who are going to work here. They claim they are the most sustainable building in the world, no less. And we are proud partners in being able to give this solution. There is also a great potential in circularity. And reuse is probably one of the most relevant topic in the construction real estate and the construction industry right now. We are a major player when it comes to green gas emissions and around 25% of waste production in Norway. So to be a company that are part of the solution on getting this level down is of major importance. Here is an example of Sofienberg School. It's a school in Oslo. We're now using the facade to produce energy. We also have -- our client here have high ambitions when it comes to CO2 footprint. So we are now helping them reusing materials or taking materials out, putting them in storage for reuse at a later stage. I'm sure we will see a lot more of this in the future. And to have been part of this first one here in Oslo is of major importance for us. When it comes to sustainability and CO2 emissions, which is one of the major measurements that we use, the reality is that every tonne matters. And also here, you can see we've been part of a project with one of the roadway authorities to see how can we reuse houses that's been in redeemed areas. Again, the skills, the knowledge and being part of the solutions for this has been an important journey for us. When you start with circularity, you need a market. You need to set up a whole value chain. So for us, to be part of these regional recycling networks that are being set up, mainly now in Oslo and Trondheim, is also an important driver to be able to succeed in the ambitions that also the Norwegian government has set on CO2 emissions. Another area that Hans-Jørgen also mentioned is the requirements for investment needs. We see that we need clean water. We need to deal with our wastewater in a sustainable way. And at the same time, we know there are huge investments needed when it comes to protecting the land and where people are living. We are part, again, of the solution here. We are doing a lot of work now with making sure that we get safe, good supply of water to the whole population of Oslo. And in line with the Oslo local government ambitions, we are also now part of seeing construction sites with no emissions. So -- and we will see this in the future. Oslo has an ambition that all construction sites should have no CO2 emission. Another important area that we see where we will see a growth is surface water protection. And again, we are working here with the water authorities to find solutions, help the water find its way without ruining the infrastructure and the investments that have been made in this area. And research is required to find new solutions. And we are now part of this research project that some of the major players, the public clients, I was searching for the word, sorry, to see ways of developing new methods on piling that doesn't affect the environment and the eco environment in any damaging way. Looking ahead, we also see that the planning, the society for the future, we will think very differently about our city and our towns, and we need to find smart solutions. We're looking on at, and we are involved with urban development, urban infrastructure and also how technology can help these communities for smart technology. And we are -- at the moment, we've just finished the prestudy of Lierstranda. It's the biggest urban development project in Norway, and they are thinking in a holistic way finding sustainable solutions, finding ways of the interaction of the people in this area so that the environmental footprint can be as low as possible. At the same time, we're also involved with this project just outside Svolvær, it's in the north of Norway, where they're looking at developing a smart neighborhood, using technology, helping the people who live here in developing, again, the smallest footprint possible. We also had digitalization as one of our major drivers. And since last year, we have employed a Chief Digital Officer. We have finished off the direction for our digital strategy. We're looking at innovation programs to make sure that we are at the forefront is what is happening and that we're taking it back into the projects that we're doing, and we're looking at strategic cooperation agreements. And this presentation should have been held by our CDO. As I said earlier, he's unfortunately in COVID-19 quarantine. So I'll do my best to give you a run-through of what we have done. But I have to say that I will probably not be able to answer today's detailed questions on the issue. What we are seeing, though, is a construction industry lagging behind other industries when it comes to application of technology. On the other hand, we know that the Nordic countries are ahead. We are advanced in the use, but we are keeping an eye on what is happening in this value chain. And to start with, let me see what we're actually good at because in the whole industry, in Norway, we are quite good at the moment when it comes to conceptualization and visualization with regards to the objects that we are going to construct. We are good at using technology in planning our project, and we are also now seeing an increased use of the digital models on the construction site. And you will hear that there are projects now being run without drawing. People misunderstand and think it means that there's no paper. But they will be paper-printed, but you will print out what you need. So they start using the model also in the -- during the construction site. And before I move on to say where we think we're going, just let me remind you, digitalization is an enabler. It is not a goal in itself. It is to enable this industry so that we can put up constructions like this in the areas where we live and move. The value chain of the construction industry has seen very few changes over maybe the last 50 years. We start planning, we design, we construct, we complete, we operate and then we demolish. This means that in this value chain, there are a number of players segmented not necessarily using the information that one actor is developing over to the next one. And this means that we think there is a potential here of finding a smoother way of how the actors interact, how they build on each other's competencies, but it will also most likely mean some disruption on the role that each one has today. And the effect of this fragmented value chain gives us some of the challenges that we see in our industry today, low productivity, lack of predictability. You've all seen huge cost increases, for instance, on some of the larger projects being executed, low margins for all the players. Pricing models that doesn't necessarily value working together towards a goal, but where each player in the value chain looks at its own contribution. And it also means that the pace of innovation is quite low. Then looking into the future, trying to see what do we think could be a possible way forward as a threat, but also as an opportunity, and we would like to go a little bit more detail into 3 areas. It's looking at integration through the value chain, looking at how we can use data and also looking at the software experts where the way you define your own business changes completely. Looking at integration through the value chain. It is possible to think that there will be a player who could see itself as taking a role all the way through the value chain, using technology in such a way that it becomes more efficient. It could be a threat. It could be a new player. But it could also be us changing the way we interact using the technology. We are often early into the project. We set the premises and we have, in a lot of way, the insights into the holistic view of the value chain. Extreme use of data. More and more, we're seeing that data is the new oil. But we still have a long way to go before we -- any player in this industry managed to use the data that we have to create new value. But what we will see is that we will be able to use the data, collect the data and base some of the decisions that we make today on analysis of data rather than using only experience. And that will be a new business model and where you can provide data. The one thing we do know is that anything that can be digitalized will be digitalized. So it's finding your value creation in this, is an important part. The software expert. If you look in the supply chain, and we know that a lot of our operations today will be automated. And the ability then to develop software who can support in this automation will be important. And that means that it will require new skills coming into this business and it will probably also increase the efficiency, but we need to make sure that the skills that we have, seeing the holistic picture, support the digital decision-making. And if you look at all these 3 roles then, integration throughout the value chain, extreme use of data and the software expert, you could ask yourself, is there a chance of total disruption here? Is something going to change the whole way we think? Really, is the Tesla of our industry on its way? We don't know the answer, but we're keeping and look at it. We are making sure that we are at the front of the developments that's happening because we want to be part of this Tesla disruptor when it appears. And it takes us on to, from the value chain, we also had the last driver we mentioned last year, was to see how our business will be based on value networks. And we want to challenge the traditional value chains. And we are seeing projects where we are involved at the moment, where, for instance, what we showed you working with the contractors. Whereas we previously would have to compete on price, we're now competing with our contractors, working with them to find the solutions. We're seeing an industry, we know there's almost like our instinct to realize that we are not an industry being paid based on the value that we create. Today's chain, we are being paid by that little proportion of the whole value chain of our projects. For instance, we are paid by the hour to develop the largest project hospital in Oslo. It is not in any way connected to making the most efficient hospital for the users, for the patients or even keeping a healthier society. And we do think that this will change. We don't know how yet, but we are being part of value chains now that will create value for our clients in a different way. Through our research project, Oscar, we looked at how does the early phases of a project affect the way we run it and the processes. And we are now designing and conceptualizing based on a life cycle perspective to provide increased value creation. And I am convinced that the focus and the priority now on sustainability will mean that we have to think differently about each player in this value chain. And we also need then to see how do we minimize the risk that we are currently experiencing each time one player in the value chain takes over for the next one. It's a whole new perspective, and we know that a lot of our people, they are used to thinking what's my supply in quite a limited period over the lifetime of a project. And we want to start training our people. We want to start getting an insight into what is important for our clients, what's important for the owner of the project, and see if we can combine these 2. We do know that if you look at, for instance, Statsbygg today, the project manager of a project there, he will be measured on, do you manage to deliver this project on time, on cost with the qualities that we required? He is not in the same way being measured by, what's the footprint of this project? How much more efficient is this project for the organization who's actually going to use the project? This will change, and we are following this development. And we do know that it means that we need to have some new insight, new knowledge on giving good advice early on for what actually creates the most value at the end of the project. So going towards the end of the GO strategy period, we had some very clear goals: an EBIT of 8% in the short-term and then 10% in the long term. And we are seeing that we are good -- we are well underway to delivering on this strategic ambition. At the same time, we said we would strengthen operations and our value creation. And again, we leave this quarter now towards the end of the strategic period with a very solid foundation. We said that we would provide through this strategy, we would come out with a foundation for profitability that gives room for future growth and future-oriented development and being positioned for the larger projects. And as I showed you today, we are -- in a lot of ways, we are there. We are actually now being the preferred partners for some of the largest, most complicated and complex projects ongoing in Norway. And moving on to the next period, we believe that the importance of understanding client challenges and requirements will have to play an even more significant role in the way we think about the future. The importance of highly competent employees, we believe, in increased requirements for -- into personnel competence, interaction, working in teams will be much more important than it has been in the past, and we need to build new competence to be relevant for the challenges in the future. We believe an industry that rapid -- is changing rapidly by digitalization and sustainability. We see a value chain that is changing, and we will work with our networks to be positioned to take the role in this new value chain. We see an increased demand to create value in a holistic perspective, and we do believe in increased demand for lifetime perspective. And our commitment then is that we will seek effective value network to ensure a holistic and sustainable value creation for our clients, project owners and society in general throughout the project's lifetime. And with that, I hand you over to Hans-Jørgen, who will give you some more detailed insights into the status of nextLEVEL.

All right. Thank you, Grethe. And I will -- earlier, Grethe told you about the turnaround, and she addressed some of the soft issues, the management commitment, the people's involvement and contribution to this and how we worked. I will focus on this presentation, get kind of more of a deep dive into what we achieved, what elements we looked at, kind of more of the hard-core part of the nextLEVEL. Numbers, figures, analysis, Grethe mentioned act on facts. And this is one of the key starting points for this nextLEVEL project, which we have been through now in the last 12 months. You will recall, many of you, from the last Capital Markets Day, we started with this picture. On the left-hand side, we saw that we had sliding margins, and we've seen that ever since basically the IPO in 2015. Kind of a good -- okay start, but then sliding quite a bit. And while at the same time, we saw that what we call then the Tier 1 players in our industry, being the Tier 1, the largest companies in the Nordics, they were able to maintain a margin of maybe around 10%. So this is then it was natural to ask ourselves why are we -- why is Multiconsult sliding towards the 3% to 4% margin level, whereas our Tier 1 competitors, they are able to keep the 10% margin level-ish. So that was kind of a key motivation for us. And we then tried to slice it into pieces, what is it? It's -- so we found out it's a combination of cost, our cost level, which was higher than we saw our competitors and our peers having. We also saw that we had higher cost level than Multiconsult had prior to the IPO. So we also had seen from our own history that our cost level had risen relative to where we were 5 years ago. So that gave us a motivation that this is possible. And then the other thing we looked at was the operational part, which was write-downs, efficiency, et cetera, et cetera, and what we call the operational element. And we divided a target of NOK 150 million that we defined into 2 pieces, which was the cost element and then the operational efficiency. And you've seen this earlier, for those of you that follow the quarter -- third quarter presentation. We're almost there. We are quite a bit ahead of schedule. We have -- we are almost there at the end of 2020, where we said that we would reach the NOK 150 million into the second quarter next year. What we have done, which is I'd like to highlight, is that we have -- looking at the numbers, we are way ahead of this. Those are what -- when we're kind of measuring this internally, we have adjusted for special effects in this year. For instance, on the cost side, we're not taking all the cost benefits into our measurement and KPIs because there are some special cost elements in 2020. So we're not trying to fool ourselves. So we're looking at long-term sustainable changes. So that's been an important part of it. But despite this kind of haircutting, as some people call it, I call it that, of what we've seen, we are still -- almost achieved NOK 150 million, and we're very happy with that. So what does this NOK 150 million consist of? NOK 90 million, if you add the committed and committed on operations, you get to the number NOK 138 million. So the cost-cutting cost element is NOK 90 million of the total. And the largest portion of that has been on the office side, office and IT. We have seen significant -- we were aware that this was a major element, and we've been focusing on that a lot. And you also see from the dotted line that the biggest change from the second quarter reporting is on this side, where we move to -- from NOK 23 million to NOK 39 million. And that links also in with the impairment loss that we're doing in the third quarter, where we're revaluing some of our office portfolio. So that links. And that is why this has happened this particular quarter. Travel and professional services, a major factor. It's a good example of where we have actually not taken our exact numbers because, of course, we have not traveled anything more or less in the last 9 months. We will be traveling more going forward but not as much as we have been. So we have been kind of trying to normalize that level. And then we have a big area we call others, which is staff, insurance cost, technical equipment, procurement, et cetera, et cetera, which adds up to about NOK 30 million. The other element there is on operations, where we've also made significant improvements. Organizational adjustments is, in many ways, getting the organization to deliver more efficiently. We've taken away some management levels, people that have not been invoicing their work. So we've been kind of making the organization more efficient by making organizational adjustments, taking away, let's say, unnecessary staff or management levels that was not necessary in some areas. And not all over, but where we've seen that. That has contributed NOK 20 million. Then we have the operational efficiency, which is, in many ways, the [ debit tailings grade ], which is the ratio. And then we have the reduced impairment, which is also kind of a core to our -- many of the challenges that you may remember from last year, we had significant write-downs each quarter, especially towards the end of the year, where we've not seen that this year, which is excellent. So that is the composition. And then going into the various categories. On the office and the facility management, we saw that there was -- we call it extensive competitive disadvantage with large offices and long and flexible contracts. The company had a ambitious growth strategy when we zoom back or rewind 2 or 3 years ago. So it had entered into some pretty long contracts that were very -- also had very large offices that was -- that is not necessary. And we have renegotiated this -- the terms of this. We moved out of some of the offices and working towards a more efficient operations. Clearly, there are some very -- KPIs that were very visible, kind of cost per -- office cost per person was a major part of nextLEVEL or square meters per person. Now that may change even further as we are now entering into a new normal that nobody knows exactly what it is. But maybe the ways we're working will be different as we move forward. And then there will be potentially even more potential in this area as we move forward. But of course, some of the rental agreements that we have are very long term. They're up to 7 or 8 years. Some of them are short, some of them are long. So it's a combination. But over time, we are committed to taking out those benefits. The other item we looked at was the IT and communication. We could recognize that we had higher cost per employee on computers, software and licenses than we -- than what would be logical to have. Of course, we have to have very good equipment because that's our life. That's our employees' most important tool is their computers. But the average cost was very higher than we thought was necessary. The other thing is software. We had more licenses than we needed. We had licenses for people that didn't work there. So kind of this kind of cleanup exercise and licenses these days are very expensive, many of you know that. Then we have the travel. We had extensive internal traveling, both domestically and foreign offices, which we've challenged that. Of course, a lot of that has stopped during this particular period. Some of it will come back, but it is an area where we saw major -- have seen major potential without us really -- without really our work being affected by reducing this thing because we want to get what is -- to do what is necessary, but we were inefficient in some of these -- along some of these areas. Professional services. We had too many people hired in as consultants, a lot of that. And sometimes we need it for short-term commitments, but we also have people working in our company as consultants for 2 or 3 years like permanent employees. And if you pay the normal consultancy payment, it's very expensive. It's not sustainable in the long term. And then we had procurement, which was also a major thing. We had very fragmented procurement -- of key procurement things like, for instance, computers, licenses, travel, flights, hotels, et cetera, et cetera. They were organized locally. Now we've put this into a more central function of where we have procurement, which is centralized for these key items. It's still a journey. We're not completely finished yet, but we've done a lot on this. And this has achieved a lot of the things. The other thing that Grethe mentioned was how we -- so we've been -- now how do we work with the organization and act on fact and getting proper reports back and be able to benchmark each other and benchmark and getting reports that are understandable, that are not questioned, that the management can act on has been very important. So we have developed a lot of reports -- or not a lot of, but sufficient amounts of reports that the management can use in the management of their business so they can measure this. And we have traffic lights with the green, yellow and red. So it's very clear if you're above, equal or below the objective level. So if you're above, you're green; if you're yellow or red, you have to explain. And sometimes it's a good reason, sometimes it's not. But at least, we get it on the table. And that has been -- there has been a strong commitment from the management overall group to deliver on these KPIs. And we -- and like Grethe said, we spent a lot of time in the first part of the nextLEVEL last summer, early autumn, to get this kind of understanding and commitment from the management that this is achievable. That's how we set realistic objectives, not set by somebody sitting in -- at a class house on top and just you do this. But we had a top-down, bottom-up process, which I think was very healthy and a key to the success of this. I'll give you a couple of examples now of -- on the -- which is the most important thing on the office side and facility services, where we have, so far, NOK 27 million of gains. It's a combination of various projects. It's not 1 or 2, but it's -- here in this case, we have illustrated like 15. It really is. And we have many different solutions to that. Gradual change to a more efficient office space. We have exited some contracts. We have renegotiated terms of facility services. And we subleased -- we have also subleased of some of the facilities where we have -- which were too big. So it's a combination, and a very, very strong effort, a lot of hard work, tough negotiations with our landlords and others to achieve this. We believe there's -- there may be even more potential and -- but we don't know exactly what the new ways of working is, but we're committed to following up on that. And of course, how we work in the future is different probably from exactly how we work today, but we'll find out as we move forward. But at least, we have established this very important thing and very happy with getting this far on that particular part. And then the other, which I briefly mentioned on, is the reduction in overhead and staff and procurement. We have -- and this is why we also had to pay back to our units NOK 24 million in the third quarter in terms of savings on staff and overhead expenses during the year. We have had staff delivering -- we have fewer people delivering better services. That has been kind of the reality. I think for the quality of the financial reporting, the HR services and IT has increased in the period with fewer FTEs or that is fewer employees. We have reduced professional services and developed internal capabilities, which has been a key thing for us. I mentioned -- briefly mentioned that. And also, as I said, on the procurement spend, our spend basis is several hundred-million kroner. So it's a lot of things to dig into. We've done a lot. We have some long-hanging fruits that was attacked very early in spring of last year. But then we have the kind of a full force going into this from last fall, and now we're seeing some of the effects of that. So it's also like pensions. It's been banking agreements. So it's both financial and purely operational agreements. All of this adds up to what we've talked about earlier today and these improvements. So that was, I think, the review of -- kind of a deep dive into nextLEVEL and some insight into how we worked on the hard-core analysis part. And then Grethe earlier mentioned how we worked with the people and the management and getting this thing actually to work as a whole business and for Multiconsult as a whole. Then I'd like to move over to financial targets, which is a good thing to discuss during Capital Markets Day. As you may recall, we introduced new financial targets, which we thought was bold and brave last year, at least they were much higher than they had been before. So we have kind of had a review of the financial targets set last year. And we've said that, "Okay. We will maintain those. We would like to have stability of those. Those will work fine for us also in the next 12 months." So no change to the financial targets, but I would like to go through it and also discuss a little bit of why they are like they are and also a little bit on some thoughts on that. So profitability. We came, as you know, from 3%, 4% for a couple of years. We set our target -- initial target at 8% and with long-term target, 10% or above. As you can see from the column, we're above 10% already. That happened quicker than we had anticipated. Very happy with that. But I think we have decided to maintain the 10%. We think it's -- that is a long-term objective. It's an ambitious objective. Looking at the peers that we have in our industry, both in the Nordics and globally, we see that 10% is a good sustainable objective to have as our guiding principle. And -- but then there, of course, will be variations between quarters and years as the business fluctuates. And there's also one particular factor that I would like to mention when it comes to our performance this year is the COVID effect. We're delivering year-to-date EBIT margin of 11.8%. And we have measured -- it's very, very difficult to say exactly what is the COVID effect in terms of lower cost because we don't know what the new normal is. We don't know exactly how things -- how much we will travel next year or the year following, how we will work in the future. So what -- we have done quite a thorough analysis, and we believe that we -- it has to be -- it's a pretty broad range, but we believe the COVID effect this year is 1% to 2%. So if we take that out of the 11.8%, we're around 10-ish percent underlying, maybe a little bit below, maybe a little bit above. It's very difficult to say. So we're there. We've had a good year. We've had a busy year. And we think it makes sense for both us and, I guess, for the shareholders and investors that we have such a margin objective for the group as a whole. Within the group, there are businesses that perform a lot better than 10% and businesses that perform lower than 10% and will continue to perform lower than 10% for a period of time. So this is on a portfolio -- average portfolio basis. This is the number that you will -- that you see in the financial reports. So this is the background for our not changing the long-term objective of the business -- of our margins despite a very, very healthy first 9 months. We think it's still a good and sustainable objective for our organization to stretch towards going forward. Then on the revenue side, we have grown a little bit 6-ish percent this year, purely organic. We've set our goal at 10% as a CAGR; that is average growth rate over the next 10 -- 5 years last year. We're maintaining that. We also said that the growth will be lower in the first part of the period and higher later, and also that the growth included M&A. We think this is okay for -- to keep that objective as a 5-year goal. For us, definitely, profitability is much more important than growth. We would like to have growth, but we would like to grow with the market and not set excessive objectives in a situation where we are a little bit uncertain about, especially where the market goes in the short term. So for us, profitability is more important than growth in the short term. In the long term, we would love to grow the business, both through organic growth and through M&A. So that kind of -- that remains our objectives. So that's why we have decided to keep our 10% objective. We think it's a healthy and good objective to have. We're a little bit below this year and we -- not surprisingly, but we think 6% this year is quite okay. So that's fine. Then our third goal is our gearing. That is gearing is an equity ratio. I can start with our equity ratio, where we set a goal that is -- so in this case, technically, without IFRS 16 adjustments. You can read about that in our quarterly report at the -- in the notes. But we have maintained that at 25%. But last year, we increased our gearing ratio objective to be normally between 1 and 2; maximum, 2.5; and in special cases, it can go to 3. That was changed last year and also connects with our bank agreement because we also renegotiate our bank loans. We used to have a gearing covenant which was lower than this. Now we have a gearing covenant which is 3. So it links in with that. So what we think about our balance sheet is that it's very important to keep a strong balance sheet. We want to sleep well at night. We also want our shareholders to sleep good at night and our banks to sleep good at nights and our employees. So that is very important. It's also important for our customers to know that Multiconsult is there for the long term, for the next 100 years. So that is a key. That kind of goes above everything. We would like to have a strong loan portfolio with maturities that are controllable. And we have -- as mentioned earlier, we negotiated our total loan portfolio in February last year with lower margins and better covenants and also with the option to repay the facilities when we don't need them, which we have done. We also need to have some reserves for M&A activities, which is very important that we have that, that we're able to do things. We have not done any M&A activity in the last 12 months. I think that's good. That's a good thing because we've been focusing on our domestic problems and issues. We have solved them. Now we can think a little bit broader. But in the long term, we need to -- we also need -- and it will be important for us to have some possibilities to do M&A activities and also support our organic growth. We've also had very, very small investments in the last 12 months, very small. And that's also part of the nextLEVEL as well as the COVID effect. We've kind of been very, very selective on that. Of course, we have to take into account seasonal working capital. Our working capital fluctuates quite a number -- several hundred million each month. So that's important. And the gearing policy also links in with our dividend policy, which we have maintained at 50%. So all these things taken together, we have decided that we maintain our gearing policy of normally being in between 1 and 2, which is different from where we are now because now we're in a negative gearing position. That is we are net cash. So we're quite -- we're now in an unusual situation. We are in a turnaround. The turnaround hasn't finished. We have had 3 -- only 3 quarters of good results. We hope and believe that will continue. So that's one of the factors going into it. We also have a COVID situation, which creates uncertainty. And we have a number of things to consider when looking at our gear -- our ratio. And even pro forma after our now announced dividend, we are in a net positive -- that is negative gearing outside our policy, which is fine for a period, but our long-term objective remains one -- between 1 and 2. And our objective, as I mentioned to a few of you, is not to become a bank. So we will consider that very carefully. But our dividend policy remains at 50%, which has -- which it has been for a long time. And we have been pretty loyal. Multiconsult has been pretty loyal to that policy. But I would like to mention this other caveat here on the side, where it says that when deciding the annual dividend level, the Board of Directors will take into consideration expected cash flow, capital expenditures, financing requirements and appropriate financial flexibility. So we're loyal to our 50% dividend policy, but at any point in time or each year, normally, we will consider all these factors. So the dividend may be higher, lower or equal to our policy. So we have that kind of, let's say, agile attitude towards when thinking about our balance sheet. And in that regard, we're very happy with what we earlier announced today with a NOK 2 dividend. We -- as Grethe mentioned earlier -- or at the start of the third quarter presentation, we did withdraw our dividend in -- at the end of March as a consequence of the COVID. We are now taking that back, paying the NOK 1. But due to our strong balance sheet, but also due to the strong performance of the business into 2020, we thought it was appropriate to double it to NOK 2 for this kind of extraordinary situation. And then, of course, we were back to a normal kind of rhythm of considering dividend. And we will think about that very closely as we move into -- or as we close 2020. And we will discuss this at management level and Board level in terms of what will happen in -- for the full year 2020. But our dividend policy of 50% remains, as it has been for -- since last year and also the years before. I've touched upon the M&A strategy. We have not done anything this last 12 months, which is fine, which is fine for a while. We are receiving every week, probably on average 2 to 3 different initiatives from outside, small, medium businesses that would like to be acquired by Multiconsult or there's kind of a tender. We have consequent -- we have said no to all of them this year. Now that's not going to happen in the future. As we know, we will change our attitude towards that a little bit. But we will continue to have a moderate and selective strategy, and we will focus on the core business. We will not do anything, which is kind of outrageous, outside our core business focus. And we will continue to have -- we will continue to monitor opportunities. But our approach towards M&A will still be conservative. But it will -- what we will do is something we will do to support our existing core business. And we are -- we believe that some M&A will be necessary over the next 1 to 2 years to acquire certain capabilities, competencies or market positions, which will be interesting. And we think now with our new and stronger financial position, we're able to do that. And now that we have done some cleanup work internally, we're also able to focus a little bit more on such matters. But again, conservative and moderate selective strategy on M&A. We have just summarized our targets in this chart. It will be in front of me every day when I go to work to remind me where we are. But we have our objectives on financial robustness. We have our road map to profitability, its targets. We have our ambitions and targets in terms of margin and growth. And we also have our dividend policy very clearly stated on this chart. So that pretty much summarizes the financial targets repeated from last year and our thoughts on why we have ended up with the same as we had past year and the new ambitions that we set at that point in time. Thank you.

Thank you, Hans, again. I hope you have all enjoyed this morning, that you had an overview of where we are on this journey, on delivering, on the GO strategy and how we think that we're going to create a position in the future. And just to repeat where we are: to evolve sustainable profitability is required and achieving a sustainable profitability is fundamental to securing a healthy growth. And with nextLEVEL, we are on the way to achieving this foundation. To win, optimalization is required. And we truly believe that the winning formula going forward is having the best people, utilizing the best solutions and optimized processes. And we are aiming to be industry leaders also in the future. To succeed, extraordinary customer value is required. And the rapid change in our surroundings will create our business, as we know, will change our business as we know it, and even more important, it will create new opportunities for new products, new business models and new ways of working. The companies who manage to utilize new technology to create extraordinary customer value while delivering sustainable solutions will succeed, and we will be one of them. Thank you very much.

We now open up for questions, either in the room or from the webcast.

Olsen, Morten Arild. Just a question regarding M&A. You mentioned the potential targets. Can you say something about what kind of price do they expect regarding multiples? Are some of them get some beating due to the COVID? Or are they still running healthy? Do you need to pay high price money for doing acquisition?

I think that generally speaking, we have not seen a repricing of companies in this period downwards, which one could expect that there could be some good opportunities on the back of the COVID. Prices and multiples are still high in general, which is one of the reasons why we've said no to some of the initiatives. The -- so we will be very selective on that. I think when we're considering the -- any acquisition, it's -- we go through the list of price, multiples, synergies, dilution issues relating to that. So -- yes, so we have to check all these things. But in general, I think the initiatives that have come to us are relatively small. It could be businesses that are maybe NOK 10 million revenues up to maybe between NOK 50 million and NOK 100 million. And I think it's fair to say that the price expectations have been high on a lot of them. The hockey stick has been very clear in their prospectus and information memorandum. So coming from a low profit and within 3 years, they will make at least 3 or 4x what they're doing today. So that is a challenge.

Last question regarding the gearing ratio. When do you expect to be within the 1 to 2x gearing ratio when we are talking months or quarters?