Multitude AG (0R4W) Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning and welcome to the Multitude Nine Months 2022 Results Earnings Call. Today, we will hear presentation regarding the nine month result by the CEO, Jorma Jokela; and the CFO, Bernd Egger, Afterwards, there will be a question-and-answer session. The questions can be raised by the Q&A box. You find it on a button of your screen. I'll now hand over to you, Jorma.

Thanks for you, and hello, everybody. My name is Jorma Jokela. I'm CEO and the Founder, and I want to work through with you multitude first 9 months result and achievement with my colleague, our CFO, Mr. Bernd Egger. We have here the new face as well, Mr. Lasse Makela. He will take over our IR role, and he is your new contact person. Lasse have a strong background from investment banks, acquisitions, CFO role and late in the last 10 years, he has been as a fintech entrepreneur.

Yes. Thank you, Jorma, for the introduction. So my name is Lasse Makela. I'm from Finland, currently based in Switzerland, and I will be your sort of face for future reference. So happy to help. Thank you very much.

Good and welcome to the team, Lasse.

Thank you.

Good. So I'm so proud to publish our Q3 results, where the main thanks is going to our amazing people. They have stretching themselves and executed our common plan and strategy so disciplined and professional. Well done, I have to say, really big thanks for our team. But before we start to jump to go through the number and presentation, I want to share with you our key takeaways today. What is our targets? We used to only -- we have like a 3 or 4 different key takeaways. But today, we have so much more to share with you. So we have 6 of those. The first one, Multitude, we delivered stable growth with up trending in EBIT. The second one, we want to confirm our EBIT guidance for this year. The third, on SweepBank tribe, we continue to deliver strong growth, but strategy shifted towards the profitable front. The fourth one on Ferratum tribe, we continue to deliver a solid performance, really solid performance. And the fifth one on CapitalBox tribe, we are running a turnaround case back to growth and profit. And the last one, we want to refinance our 2023 bond already under this year. But let's jump to numbers. Let's go to presentation. So during Q3, we delivered stable revenue growth, 2.3% year-on-year when revenue ending EUR 56.6 million on Q3. Lending portfolio growth improving over several quarters over 13% year-on-year and ending EUR 485 million. Earnings before interest and tax continued throughout the whole year and ending in Q3 EUR 8.8 million, even despite on this current market situations. Payment behavior and cash position remains stable. When we look to going forward, our focus is, utilize our new agile organization structure, what we implement during the pandemic time to scale down our cost base and improve our efficiency, accelerate our profitability in short- and mid-term. It's one of our key focus as well. And of course, the building our crowd platform strategy value. At same time, we want to confirm our EBIT guidance of this year of EUR 30 million of this year. Good. Let's jump to look at the SweepBank. So on SweepBank, growth continues with shifting to a short-term profitable. We continue to deliver a strong revenue growth of 67% year-on-year when the Q3 revenue ended EUR 4.7 million. Lending portfolio grew over 50% to ending EUR 116 million. Last quarter earnings call, maybe many people remember, we promised to reduce our operational cost over 50%. And the main decisions are now done and already implement, but naturally financial impact we will see during the first half of the next year. Part of this same process, we promised to focus higher profitability countries, and we decide to hold back the new customer intake in Sweden and Denmark, but this is only temporary and only in the SweepBank case. And we want to focus all our resource at the moment for the Finland, German and Latvia, our 3 focus countries under SweepBank. Going forward, we will shift focus from fast growth to profitability growth. We still want to grow in naturally and fast, but we prefer and like the profit here as well. Customer segments, products and countries with higher profitability and we continue reduction in all operational costs here as well. This is ongoing process. It's not a onetime activity, but we want to look to efficient here. Additionally, we have suspended all new development features in mobile bank and we'll concentrate on expanding growth from free digital credit card, where we always see lots of potential and demand as well. Our target next year is improve our EBIT significant to cut half of our EBIT loss and by 2024 to achieve the positive EBIT. Good. But let's jump to our biggest business unit, biggest tribe, how we call the Ferratum. Here, you can see the really solid performance and how it's grown then. We continue to deliver stable revenue and EBIT. Revenue grew slightly, ending the EUR 47.1 million in the Q3 and earnings before interest and tax grow really strongly around the 25% quarter level year-on-year, ending in EUR 15.1 million. Portfolio quality remains robust. During Q3, we sold to some old loan portfolios in Sweden and Latvia, which reduced slightly our net AR the lending portfolio, with ending in EUR 286 million. We continue to improve our efficiency. We are implementing of customer service outsourcing outside of the EU. Our focus going forward is to shift resource to higher-profit countries. We continue a strong cost control and process automatization to improve our efficiency even further. Credit risk and underwriting innovations are one of the key focus on our team in the risk business -- the business leadership and the marketing as well. We continue the credit limit product rollout to our main countries. And naturally, we continue to listen to our customer needs and exploring the new product opportunities and countries as well. Like we are doing this year to open to Slovakia. Our financial target is to continue to deliver over 5% EBIT growth year. Good, but let's jump to capital CapitalBox, this is our SME business unit tribe, how we call that one. Here, we are the very traditional turnaround case back to growth and profit. We have a huge market opportunity to digitalize further SME financial industry. We have identified our shared comments and made needed decisions. We all know this market opportunity is still there, and we will catch this during coming years. Our revenue and EBIT on Q3 was below our expectation. Revenue ending EUR 4.8 million and EBIT minus EUR 600,000. But to be fair, we have to say that the current CapitalBox team, we have started really strong in driving turnaround decision and actions, and we have done together through so many improvement in sales activity, cost reduction, credit loss control already during the first months since this summer when we start to go into turnaround. New tribe CEO is chosen, and he will start beginning of the next year, and interim management team leads the turnaround until new CEO are fully onboarded on the part of the team. Our focus going forward is 3 simple things, building new distribution channels to get the customers cheapers, cheaper, doubled the approval rate with the product and underwriting innovation but not increase the credit rate. Reduce cost base with automatization of underwriting and sales process. And all of these 3 focus area, we have to make a lot of borrowing actions during the last months. And the pace on this are simple focus, strong team and market opportunity in what we have it outside, we have set up our next year target to deliver EUR 5 million EBIT and double it on the following year. Good. That was more or less in our business update and additional our business update, I would like to update you our ESG matters as well. We continue to make the progress on our ESG codes, which follows the publication of our first ESG report under the new strategy. We also published our ESG policy and human rights statement already in the H1 and shared the first set of targets to support our ESG course what you can show over here. As Multitude group, we want to understand and reduce our environmental footprint. And this year, we started preparation to report a mission using a stacker approach setting a baseline that will be followed by target setting later on. With regard to environmental impact to our business units, we continue to work to increase our share of SweepBank digital purchasing versus traditional point of sales transaction over the long term with the target of 65% by 2025. In our current Q3, now the run rate is 39%. We naturally remain committed to regular engagement survey and performance review process with regard to our employees. As a part of developing action for implementing our ESG strategy, we have been addressing the issue of diversity and inclusion in the company increasing female leadership, assessing and reporting the gender diversity, the Board has now approved our diversity and inclusion statement that will be published during the final quarter of this year. In Q3, we started to engage with several of our investors on materiality of ESG issues and are planning to increase this engagement further. We would like to invite you to participate in our 5 to 10 minutes materiality assessment, naturally if you have not already done so. You will each be receiving a link to participate in the materiality survey in addition to our regular survey in your views on today's call. I want to thanks for you on the behalf of myself and -- but let's jump to look at the financial numbers more deeper, and I want to hand over for the Bernd.

Good morning, everybody. My name is Bernd Egger, and I would like you to run you through the 9-month results. But also talk a little bit about the upcoming weeks, especially when it comes to our plans with regard to funding. On the next slide, I would like to take a short look at the 9-month profit and loss account. Revenues have increased by some EUR 3.7 million or 2.3%. Economically, this is equivalent to a like-for-like increase of a pretty strong EUR 5.6 million or 3.5%. The delta is just an IFRS requirement to offset customer acquisition costs from revenues. So economically, we have increased revenues by EUR 5.6 million or 3.5%. Credit loss is largely under control with some focus areas for the first 9 months, the level is EUR 57.9 million. We see an increase in credit losses in some of the businesses, especially in Sweden. We will talk about that a little later in the other areas, pretty strong credit loss performance. From a cost perspective, we have reduced marketing and selling expenses quite significantly by around about 22% or 14% if you adjust for this revenue netting that I referred to. And very importantly, also from a personnel expenses and operational expense perspective, we are managing the challenges fairly well. From a personnel expenses perspective, we are de facto flat. First 9 months this year, 25.9% last year, 25.3%, currently 690 employees. So this is practically the same level as last year. And that reflects upon the initiative over the last 2 years to create a lean organization and to establish an operating model that allows us to scale the business with a pretty flat fixed costs. Other operational expenses also well under control, a slight increase here and there, but largely all costs pretty well under control. From a financing cost perspective, actually even lower cost than last year, EUR 13.1 million. This is around about EUR 1.7 million less than last year. There are 2 drivers behind that. One is we have reduced the public debt with the repayment of the 2022 instrument. And secondly, despite the super high volatility, when it comes to foreign exchange fluctuations, which also implies higher hedging costs, we have managed to keep the impact of foreign exchange reasonably low. So all in all, lower financing costs than last year. What that translates to from a profit perspective is a 9-month EBIT of EUR 20.8 million, a profit before tax of EUR 7.7 million and a fairly strong net profit of EUR 6 million. Q3, I would like to highlight that the numbers were particularly strong with EBIT at EUR 8.8 million, profit before tax at EUR 4.8 million and a net profit of EUR 3.9 million. On that basis, we feel comfortable to confirm our guidance of EUR 30 million for the full year 2022. On the next slide, I would like to take a very short look at the balance sheet. The topics that are worth mentioning are on the one hand and, of course, an increase in loan portfolio to around about EUR 485 million, which is equivalent to an increase of EUR 9.2 million cash, EUR 152 million, very solid, very stable, slight increase compared to H1 compared to previous year. I've highlighted that in the presentation of the H1 numbers. We have reduced excess cash significantly with free cash that was held with the regulator of the bank. So this helped us to reduce excess cash and now the cash situation is very stable and solid. You might notice that we see an increase in other current assets by some EUR 20 million, a little bit more than that, so EUR 38.7 million from EUR 17 million at the end of the year 2021. This has largely to do with sales of loan portfolios. We have sold over the last couple of months, a number of loan portfolios also entered into a number of forward flow transactions, which is going to help us going forward also to steer credit risk management very well. From a liability perspective, naturally noncurrent liabilities down with the completed bond repayment earlier this year. Deposits largely stable with an increase of a little bit more than EUR 20 million during Q3. Why? We are anticipating somewhat increasing and a prolongation of the trend to see increasing interest rate levels, and this is why we have decided during Q3 to gradually increase the level of deposits that we take in, in order to be able to support the business growth, not only for this year but also for next year. This, by the way, is an initiative that we are also continuing during Q4. Equity up to EUR 173 million. On the next slide, I would like to take a very short look at the composition of the loan portfolio. Over time, we see a gradual increase in the proportion of the relatively new businesses that comprise SweepBank and CapitalBox. The portfolio composition is so that currently combined Sweep and CapitalBox business account for roughly 40% in comparison to around about 1/3 a year ago. And this increase is, as a trend, also reflected in the composition of revenues. So as Jorma pointed out, we're not 100% happy with the revenue performance in CapitalBox, but we will go into tribe performance on the next slide, if we can move forward, please. Let us, on the next slide, thank you, start with Ferratum. Ferratum continues to show high profitability, in fact, quite significantly increasing profitability. EBIT is close to EUR 39 million for the first 9 months. From a quarterly perspective, I would like to highlight that the Q3 performance was extremely strong with Ferratum with EUR 15.1 million EBIT, which is essentially the most profitable quarter of the Ferratum business over the recent years, couple of years. I would like to highlight a very strong performance of the whole Ferratum team. The key drivers are the team managed to increase revenues slightly despite the fact that we are operating in a very difficult market environment, which is giving us extreme comfort also for the year 2023. Credit loss is equally important, very well under control. There's a slight increase. But given the challenges that we are seeing from a political and market perspective, excellent performance from a credit loss perspective and also cost very well under control. That translates into a very high level of profitability, which we are really proud of. SweepBank, a very significant increase in revenues compared to last year, more than 2/3, up compared to last year. We have a focus area currently that is credit losses in Q3. They were a little bit or somewhat higher than expected, and this is not only an underwriting and risk management focus point. It's also a focus point when it comes to processes and operations. So we have taken a lot of actions with regards to improving the collections performance, improve the processes. And of course, we're on improving the underwriting and decision-making quality. Nonetheless, product margin is positive over 9 months. So product margin is to be understood as revenue minus credit loss impairments and cost of sales and marketing, as I said, we have initiated a number of operational changes already earlier this year with the clear target and ambition of achieving a significantly better EBIT in 2023 compared to 2022, with, as Jorma pointed out, the clear target is to be EBIT profitable from 2024 onwards. CapitalBox, apparently for SME business, it is worth noting that CapitalBox operates in difficult market conditions. Nonetheless, we don't want to blame the performance on difficult market circumstances. We have accepted that there were some operational hiccups and organizational weaknesses that we need to focus on. This has happened. This is still work in progress, but a number of actions have been taken. New management [indiscernible] will come on board beginning of next year. Now we have taken a number of actions also with regards to credit loss impairments and underwriting. And I have to say, to also make a positive statement with regard to CapitalBox. And I've highlighted that in the H1 presentation that we are not 100% happy with the performance, the credit quality of CapitalBox in the first half that has improved significantly. So we see a direct positive consequence of the actions taken earlier this year with a much better credit loss performance in the third quarter in CapitalBox. Now on the next slide, that brings me to the asset quality. This is a slide that I always tend to show in order to give you an understanding of what credit loss performance and what -- how the asset quality looks over time. Obviously, there is volatility in unstable market circumstances. But the key message here is that from a long-term perspective, we see a significantly improving asset quality over the last couple of years, over the last couple of quarters, we have seen a pretty stable asset quality on a high level. This is driven by obviously by enhanced scoring. So this is something that I always repeat, this is performance of underwriting is not a static performance, it is something that we are working on consistently with more than 10 people in data science. So this is a continuous process, which is paying off, and that enables us to maintain a very solid credit quality also during quite challenging times. On the next slide, in these challenging times, also a key topic. If not the key topic is cash. We have an extremely solid cash base of EUR 152 million. We've reduced excess cash and are now fairly comfortable with the cash balances that we have. Nonetheless, if we move on to the next slide, I would like to jump to the conclusion of main statement on this slide right away. We intend to go live with the capital markets, with debt capital markets transaction these days, actually today. The plan is to start the refinancing of the 2023 bond already now with a product that we think is going to be very attractive for investors, a product with a 3 years maturity. The intention is to raise an amount in the region of EUR 50 million to EUR 100 million. We do not need to raise EUR 100 million. So we will see how the market participants react to that, but we are convinced that given the very solid performance that this is an extremely attractive credit case. So from an overall perspective, funding, as pointed out, over the last years, this strategy was and has been and still is to increase the utilization of deposit funding currently at EUR 450 million, around about debt instruments. We have this around EUR 97 million outstanding related to the 2023 bond. That is the one that we are planning to replace. And also during this year with as a test balloon for the first time, issued a Tier 2 instrument, a Multitude instrument that we might tap over the next couple of months on the level of Multitude Bank. So this is the funding structure and the main statement. I would like to reiterate the most relevant statement is that we intend to go live with the new debt capital market instruments just now. Good. With that, I would like to move to the next page and hand over back to you, Jorma.

Good. Okay. Thanks, Bernd. That was a really good really good update. And like you can see, we have built a really strong and good Q3 behind. And I want to a little bit repeat myself. Typically, we have shared like a 3 or 4 key takeaways on our calls. But I hope you see this situation very similar that we can see that we think about a long time and decided we have to share the 6 key takeaways with all of you on today on this call. The first one that we are back to stable growth with upward trending in our FIT, confirm our EBIT guidance on this year. And in SweepBank, you can see that we have strong growth continues, but we have a little bit more just the strategy shifted towards the profitable growth. Ferratum, very solid performance continues. CapitalBox, turnaround case, back to growth and profit very well in the progress. It's after the few months now and refinancing of our 2023 bond, what's scheduled for now the Q4. Good, I think we want to thank all of you, and we are ready to take Q&A.

I think we have a chat here. It's start to come into questions. It's the third question is coming from the -- Bernd, if I take the first question, is that okay? Or…

Yes, please. Absolutely. Perfect. Perfect. So first question coming from [ Stefan Grishofer ]. And the question is, how is the SweepBank app developing in German since introduction in July? How many paying customers do you currently have in Germany who pay EUR 3.99 per month. I think the short answer is that one that we are okay, happy with the number of the customer base in the German. It's the customers are coming in. What I think we are at a pretty positively surprised that when we introduction this around to EUR 4 monthly payments there, the value proposition for the customer, we have a see that -- we don't want to publish exact number, but we can see that around 10% to 20% of the customers are convert on this paid customers here. And we have to say that it was pretty -- it was pretty happy that one. It's -- our expectation was a little bit lower behind it. And based on that one, I think it's -- we can see here in the good business case for us as well. Of course, it's very small still today and very early stage, but let's put on the way that the ratios and numbers are looks from it.

Good, Bernd. There is coming now so many questions. So -- the next question, let's look and with some of the group in the question here. It's maybe we can just start.

Yes.

Maybe I can take -- exactly. Maybe I can take -- there is a next question it's -- I don't know, it's just 2 letter, so I don't know who is coming from the EEG. The Ferratum implementation of the customer service outsourced outside of Europe, how do you handle the time different with the customer requesting Portugal with the telephone interaction? That's the first question. Maybe I can answer that first and then there is some funding questions. So maybe Bernd, you can take those ones.

Yes, of course.

So that's true. We have we have a pretty lucky that we have a billing in the customer service and not only the customer service, we have a bill like administration center in the outside of the EU. And we have a practical different time shift there. And we have to say that we are pretty happy how efficient this have worked in there. It's -- we have currently in our hub, we have around 30, 40 people -- 30 people, it's more close to today. We are recruiting all the time. They're more. And we are dealing there in our chat questions on the different countries. So what we have a billing there, we have a billing example the cooperation with some external partners the tools where we can practically the by native English speaking persons taken practically to communicate with other -- the multiple European language on the chat base and e-mail base and quality of the those communication is really amazing. So I think it's our team, operational team and customer service, they are doing amazing job here. And that's free -- I got freedom -- give the freedom from our customer service people in the year of to dealing more the phone calls and things like that one. So given more like a value creation for the customer service there as well. So we have a little bit like a split the roles there. We can sometimes maybe go more deeper that one if there is interest in that. But this is something very, very unique and very cool business cases. I have to say, and I'm very proud of what our team have done there. It's 2x happened at the same time, increase the significant automatization and increase the cost efficient the split the different roles on the different locations. Good. Then the next question is as a funding, how much you -- how much of your refinancing called you do with the deposit alone in K3 financing, where capital amount has become more challenging, can't you refinance SweepBank and CapitalBox fully with the deposit. Bernd?

Let me take that. So I would like to put that a little bit into perspective of the strategy over the last 2 to 3 years. When we think -- we look back some 2.5 years, the public debt that we had on a consolidated basis was some EUR 240 million. Currently, we have slightly less than EUR 100 million. So we have materially deleveraged the organization from a public debt perspective. And that is reflective of the strategy to gradually increase the utilization of deposits by consolidating most of the lending business under the bank to enable direct access. And that means with regard, for instance, to SweepBank and CapitalBox that the whole SweepBank lending portfolio is being originated by the organizations of the group's own bank and hence, has full access, unlimited access, to deposit funding. CapitalBox is slightly more complicated as the loan origination works slightly different via a lending institution in Sweden, but we are also utilizing deposit funding indirectly for CapitalBox. That in conjunction with the -- together with the consolidation of the business -- of the bank. So that means elimination of no longer needed local lending entities over the last couple of years has enabled us to increase deposit utilization massively. So that means, in turn, that the dependency upon capital market that has decreased significantly. And this is also why we said that we don't even have to refinance the full EUR 100 million that we have currently outstanding with a new instrument but could also live with a smaller product. However, you know that especially in challenging market circumstances, it is important to keep balance and keep a balanced mix and diversified mix of funding sources. We don't want to be dependent upon any single source of funding, and that includes deposits but also capital market instruments. So this is the main reason why we want to still issue a new product. And a certain proportion of the funding is still needed from that capital market, but it's much, much lower than it was in the past and it's much lower than the EUR 100 million that we have currently outstanding.

Good. Good. Thanks, Bernd. We have so many questions we have to speed up. The next question is here. The SweepBank and CapitalBox. You mentioned transaction cost, example broker fees, which kind of the broker service do you use? Short answer, we used like marketing brokers in the -- some of the Scandinavian countries. And that's the practically the fees, what you can see here, the adjusted on the IFRS as revenue reduced. Then the next question, SweepBank and maybe I missed it during the call, why did the cost of risk almost double in the Q3? My recommend is that there is several risk questions. So let's take those all together if that's okay. Then the Philip Habler, I have a question from [ Pareto ] the report, the target price is -- in my report it is good in the Q3. Was it good…

I guess this relates to a different jet. That's the related to latitude.

Okay. Maybe -- yes, okay. And that's true. Sorry, but I just wonder if the same. Okay. Then there is -- I will be coming back to those questions, Philip, your question. [indiscernible] why are impairments increased in Q3? Do you see the higher risk for credit rating with customers? Has the overall risk increased due to inflation and recession? Let's take this together, marketing down in Q3, are you reducing sales activity, which will lead and lower lending activities? I think the short answer in the mortgaging cost down is there that we have reduced some marketing expenses there. What are the more like a brand building related and a little bit longer term related. But we are still the -- let's put that way, we have a little bit more efficient our marketing mix behind there as well.

And if I may add from a technical perspective, you would also have to take into consideration that EUR 1.7 million should be deducted from the reduction as those have been netted from revenues. So that makes it a little bit complicated but overestimates the reduction in marketing expenses a little bit.

Exactly. And there is so many credit risk-related questions. Should we actually take here the answer that in general.

Yes.

It's -- do you want to take the lead of that one?

Yes. Yes, of course. I mean, from the perspective of the credit risk performance, I think we need to differentiate the 2 aspects. One is that the steady state performance as we see, for instance, in Ferratum. I have to reiterate, we're fairly happy with that. We're actually very happy. If you compare, for instance, last year, credit loss impairments to 2022, then we see an increase altogether of EUR 8 million, EUR 2.7 million roundabout of which is related to Ferratum. Now given that we have increased the portfolio given that we have managed to achieve an extremely high profitability in Ferratum, this is absolutely in line with the expectation, in fact, slightly better than the expectation. So here, we are very well on track. As regards to the other 2 Sweep and CapitalBox, I would like to start with Sweep. Here, the situation is a little bit more difficult since we had 1 or 2 markets where during Q3 performance was not as good as we had hoped for. So we have spent quite some time to focus on identifying the issue. And the good thing is that those issues could be identified and could be worked on. So it's not a general deterioration of credit quality. There were also some operational issues where it was simply upon us to make sure that processes run more smoothly and also collection processes go hand-in-hand with other internal processes better. So these have been actions that we've been taking. So that makes me feel positive about the performance going forward. CapitalBox, we had some issues in the beginning of the year, which obviously also for us, resulted in a question whether this is reflective of the deterioration of the market circumstances. We have changed the composition of the portfolio, focused on some businesses, have underweighted other industries, and that has paid off. So this, from our perspective, is very positive to see that within a couple of quarters, we see the positive impact of reactions and changes in the processes in underwriting in credit risk management.

Good. That's a clear and good answer. And if there is a more question on that one, we are happy to answer, naturally, -- it's -- but what -- I think what I have to support a little bit here is from the -- we're typically looking at a business point of view as well, we have a different way to look into payment behavior and the credit risk. It's one way is looking to early indicators. One way is looking for the portfolio performed and like a bucket, like a different aging buckets. And this is like across our organization are the common KPIs are those early indicators and the aging bucket in the collection, in the risk team, in the business team. So we have like a very good like a 360 view on those. And we are currently still the very confidence on the situation that we don't see like any -- like a part of those, what Bernd mentioned, we don't see any like a worry on the payment behavior. There is some countries where we have seen the evolving situation and then we have done the necessary actions behind there as well.

Good. Let's move on. So the next question is come to Harald. Could you provide some inside regarding SweepBank in Germany? How does the rollout develop?

It's actually -- it's working really well. So what we have done in the German and in the Latvia and Finland now as well. So we have to bring our mobile plan. We have a billed the basic digital banking features there. We have 1 billing there in the little -- like loyalty program through the different deals for the customer. When customers apply the mobile bank account and it's -- we haven't changed the onboarding process just recently from the pure app to web process as well because we see that there was a lot of demand from the customers to doing this in the website as well. And this is delicately improved our conversion rate there, and we can see the very positive to that one. Customers get a digital -- the debit card and digital credit card on the spot. So it'll take a few minutes and customer can start to use the money immediately. And yes, I think it's -- I think we are currently the more like a fine-tuning phase there and exploring -- like a scaling phase where we want to scale in this one. It's -- we are pretty happy on the development there. Of course, the KPIs, what we typical metrics there are the conversion rate, the conversion rate for the paid customer and not paid customer, moves of the credit card and things like that one. And based on those KPIs, it looks pretty promising today. Of course, we have still the way like you can see our view as well in the future that before we have a scale in this on the size that we are the profitable, it will take a little bit of time, but we have a strong view and model how we can do in that one, what maybe not have all market players. Good. Then the next question comes to [ Cliff Spielaforge ]. Good morning. And thank you for presenting other financial assets have grown by EUR 26 million in the year-to-date. Can you please elaborate on the type of the securities or instrument behind this balance sheet item? Bernd?