NBCC (India) Limited (534309) Earnings Call Transcript
February 13, 2020
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the NBCC India Limited Q3 FY '20 Earning Conference call hosted by Prabhudas Lilladher Pvt. Ltd. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Viral Shah from Prabhudas Lilladher Pvt. Ltd. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Janice. Good afternoon, everyone. I welcome all the participants to the 3Q FY '20 Results Conference Call of NBCC (India). We have with us Mr. P. K. Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Rajendra Chaudhari, Director, Commercial; Mr. Neelesh Kumar Shah, Director of Projects; Mrs. B.K. Sokhey, Director, Finance; Mr. Yogesh Sharma, Executive Director, Engineering. We will commence the call with the opening remarks from Mr. Gupta to give an overview on the company's performance. This will be followed by a Q&A. Now I would like Mr. Gupta to begin with the opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Good afternoon. Our operating income during the quarter 3 was INR 1,265 crore as compared to INR 1,098 crores in second quarter. So as compared to second quarter, there has been an increase of about 15% in the operating income. Profit after tax has been INR 35 crore against a loss of INR 29 crore reported in second quarter. And another good news is that we have been able to sell INR 103 crore worth of real estate asset inventory. This has not been booked in revenue because of accounting standard, and it's likely to be booked shortly. Our provisions against ECL has come down drastically as compared to last year. Last year in first 9 months, it was around INR 80 crore. This year in first 9 months, it's about INR 48 crore. One of the reasons for the low profit is the new tax law due to -- which about INR 100 crore worth of tax asset has to be written off. This is all about opening remarks. Our major -- one of the major projects of Nauroji Nagar redevelopment, that is under court. But final hearing has been held in November, and we are expecting the results will be out very soon. And that will give a big [ lift ] to our revenues.
[Operator Instructions] We take the first question from the line of [ Rajiv Rupani ], individual investor.
I had attended your con call in the month of Feb. So you had talked about some 45-acre land in Wadala, Mumbai, which would be going for development. So could you update us on that?
I'm Neelesh Shah, Director, Projects. You're talking about which project of Wadala?
There was some 45-acre land is there in Wadala, Mumbai. And we were told it will take about 6, 7 months to start the project...
No, Wadala, Mumbai, project is somehow -- actually, it was to be executed by NBCC on a self-sustainable basis. But somehow, government has not agreed to this project. And now that project, the government has arranged some fund of about INR 1,000 crore they have arranged. And now that will be executed by CPWD on PMC basis. So they will not approve self-sustainable model of NBCC.
Okay. Okay. And can you just update us on East Kidwai Nagar project?
Yes, East Kidwai Nagar, our Director of Commercial will update.
See the project is nearing completion, and it will take another -- maximum by April '20 that it will get completed. And what else do you want to know about East Kidwai Nagar?
So by April it will be completed you said, sir?
Yes, yes, yes. We have started handing -- we have handed over 2,000 houses also. And we are in the process of handing all [ quarters ].
Okay. And also could you update me what is the total land bank of the company for development, which can be developed?
58 acres.
58 acres. You are talking about real estate of NBCC?
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Yes, we have 58 acres of land.
That is in East Kidwai Nagar or total?
No, no, no. You see, the East Kidwai Nagar project belongs to Ministry of Housing & Urban Affairs. We were simply PMC there, and we were a marketing part of that project.
We take the next question from the line of Rohit Natarajan from Antique Stockbroking.
Sir, if you could help us with what exactly is the situation that the -- these 3 redevelopment projections in Delhi, especially the Pragati Maidan Trauma Center, Ayur Vigyan, Trilokpuri DDA, all those projects?
I think convention center is going on as planned. For some period, it was stopped because of ban on pollution. For about 1.5 months, that project was stopped. But now it has restarted, and it's going on in full swing. The ban during night time still remains. DDA, yes, it's Karkadooma. It's not at Trilokpuri. The Karkadooma Honorable Home Minister has laid the foundation stone of the project, and it is under the stage of approval. And we expect to close the tender in another 3, 4 months. And...
The Ayur Vigyan Nagar?
With Ayur Vigyan Nagar, to that we have already awarded work to the contractor. And no, it is already mobilized fully. Only we are waiting for some approval. In fact, we got our local approvals -- the statutory approvals. But only permission from the Forest Department of Delhi government is pending. And because of the election, decision was not taken. So now elections are over, so we hope to get clearance from the Fire Department -- from Forest Department at the earliest and then project will pick up soon.
Okay. Sir, in terms of the WTC Guwahati project, any update on that?
Yes, WTC Guwahati project, we have already invited tenders. But somehow, we postponed the tender twice actually because the state government is taking a loan from HUDCO to meet the actual cost of the project. So they have already applied -- they have already submitted their application to HUDCO for obtaining the loan. And as soon as the loan is approved, the project will pick up.
Sir, we had also some projects in Bhubaneswar and Bihar, Patna medical work. What is the status over there?
So you are talking about real estate projects at NBCC or PMC job? Because we know...
No, no, no. I'm talking about PMC, PMC projects, IIT, Bhubaneswar, medical, Patna, et cetera.
Yes, IIT, Bhubaneswar, yes, it is going on actually. And we expect to complete the project by June, July this year. It is around INR 800 crore project, and it is in full swing. Now we have engaged more than 3,000 laborers there. So that will be completed by June, July this year.
Okay. And for Patna Medical work that you had over there?
Patna Medical, the work is already completed. We have ESIC Hospital there. That is already completed and handed over to ESIC.
Okay, okay. And sir, the PMGSY, some work you were doing close to -- what is the status over there?
At PMGSY, we had -- we are executing ESIC project -- rather we are executing ESIC projects in [ 4 ] states. Now we have completed work in almost all these states, except Odisha, where only about INR 150 crore work is balance, and that is mainly bridges actually. Roads are completed, but bridges are in progress. And by the end of this December, we'll be completing 100% work of PMGSY. But we are trying for new ones. We are trying to get new works under PMGSY scheme, so we hope to get new work also in the next quarter.
Sir, if you could throw some light on this Jaypee and Amrapali project as well.
Amrapali, the project has already been awarded to NBCC. And the Honorable Court has given permission to tender for the 7 projects. Out of total 16, 17 projects, they have given us permission to invite tenders for 7 projects. We have already invited tenders for 7 projects. We have 3 projects where we were already awarded the work. And the work will start soon in all the 7 projects. 3 projects...
[ And going on ].
Sir, but do you have the cash in place? Because the monetization part, how will you...
All these 7 projects, we have -- Supreme Court has sufficient cash. And the projects are being permitted when the cash is available, subject to availability of cash only. That is why Supreme Court receiver has not permitted all projects. They'll permit it later.
But what is the quantum of cash that is required to kickstart this project?
INR 700 crores. The value of these projects is INR 700 crores.
And you already have this amount in place, is that what you're saying?
You see, first of all, NBCC is doing PMC. And the MSTC is actioning the property of Amrapali. So as and when the fund is being ascertained, the court receiver allows us to do the tendering part. So, so far, they have allowed up to INR 700 crores, and we have awarded 2, and we are in the process of awarding 2 more. And the tendering is going on as per the advice or instructions of the court receiver.
Sir, in terms of the Jaypee Infra, what is the situation over there?
You see in Jaypee Infra, the hearing is going on in NCLT, and we have to give a written submission. And next date of hearing is [ 17th ].
Okay. Sir, in terms of awarding of the projects from the order backlog that we have to the contractors, what is the outstanding orders that we have given to the contractors as of now?
It's about INR 15,000 crore works that are going on.
I didn't get you, sir. What is that number?
About INR 15,000 crore worth of orders.
And how much you are planning to award?
Around INR 4,000 crores more we are planning to award, INR 3,500 crores to INR 4,000 crores.
Sir, from the -- if I understand it correctly, the -- if you exclude the redevelopment part, this is the number that you're talking about, right?
Yes. Yes. This is exclusive of redevelopment. These are only PMC projects.
Next question is from the line of the Dipan Mehta from Elixir.
So just to continue with that question asked by the previous participant. So, if you could give us a summary of what is the total order book position. What of that has been contracted out? And how much do you think you can do over the next fiscal? And the first -- last few months of FY '20 and next fiscal, how much you think will get contracted out?
The total order book as on date is INR 72,000 crore approximately, out of which around INR 34,000 crores is PMC, and balance INR 37,000 crores is redevelopment.
Okay. And what about the contracting?
Out of -- INR 15,000 crores we have contracted out and around another INR 3,500 crores we plan to award the contracts during the current financial year.
Sir, is that about INR 34,000 crores PMC book?
Yes.
Sir, INR 34,000 crores PMC book, INR 15,000 crores already contracted, INR 3,500 crores by FY '21?
Yes.
And what about the redevelopment project, I mean is there any progress over there? Any building or realization of revenues happening on that INR 37,000 crore?
Our major project is Nauroji Nagar, with which another 2 colonies are attached. So this is under the Delhi High Court. And the last hearing was held in the month of November. We are expecting that the result will be out soon and we'll be able to start the work.
So of the INR 34,000 crores for redevelopment, there is no work happening because of Supreme Court order?
Yes.
Yes, that is the position.
Next question is from the line of [ Darshan Mali ] from [ LAP Consultants ].
Can you provide details with regard to the court case going on in Delhi High Court, the Nauroji Nagar one? By when can we expect it? And if the order is in favor, by when can the project begin, the execution part of it?
The last hearing was held on 27th November, and the judgment has been reserved. We are expecting that the judgment will be out very soon. And our contracts -- our won contracts are already in place. In fact the work was going on when it was stopped. So the work will start immediately after the court gives the orders.
Can that be expected in Q4 of FY '20, or it will get postponed to FY '21?
It will have a -- maybe we will get more or less INR 150 crores because the site is fully mobilized. And at the moment, the other is public. If we are able to start, then definitely, it will contribute to quarter 4, but to the extent of INR 150 crores.
Okay. So for Q4, we are expecting INR 100 crore to INR 150 crore. Hello?
Yes, yes, yes.
Next question is from the line of Shivang Joshi from Prabhudas Lilladher.
Sir, if you could give us the status of the Delhi AIIMS project and what is the current status for the same, here?
Delhi AIIMS project, I already clarified that we have already awarded the work to contractor, and site is fully mobilized. We've got most of the statutory approvals, and we had some local approval. We are just waiting for the clearance from Forest Department. And that is pending with the state government of Delhi when the government is in place. So we hope to get the clearance from the Forest Department soon, and then we can immediately start the AIIMS work.
Okay. And sir, about the PMC project, that you were -- the 3 -- INR 3,500 projects which you are expecting to award, can you give us some brief details about what are the major projects, sir, among that?
Major projects recently, we have got one work of INR 800 crore for Rajaswa Bhawan in Delhi. So we are tendering that work.
Okay. Fair enough. My other questions are already answered -- yes, please, you're telling something?
No some more IIMs are there like IIM Visakhapatnam. [indiscernible] we have got recently, but most probably that will be tendered in the next quarter. The 2 IIMs, we are doing some NITs, we are doing tender. These are the big projects which we have been tendering this quarter.
We take the next question from the line of Akash Damani from Edelweiss.
Sir, out of the INR 37,000 crore of redevelopment, how much of these tenders have already been given?
Tenders awarded are approximately INR 4,000 crore.
Yes. And sir, how much of the real estate monetization has been done until date?
We have been able to sell INR 103 crores worth of real estate during the last 6 months. And some of that has been booked, some of that is likely to be booked [ from this ].
And sir, how much -- what is the total amount till date?
Total amount for what?
Real estate monetization, INR 103 crore in the last 6 months. I just want to know what is the total amount till date.
Hello, members of the management? Sir, we have a question from Mr. Damani. Hello? [Operator Instructions] [Technical Difficulty] Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently holding the line. We have the management reconnected. Also, we have the question from the line of Mr. Damani, over to you.
Yes. Sir, my question was that out of the total INR 37,000 crores of redevelopmental, you said that you have monetized INR 103 crores in the past 6 months. But I want to know total quantum that has been monetized till date out of INR 37,000 crores.
This INR 37,000 crore is not real estate. This is redevelopmental project. That INR 103 crore that I told was -- that was our real estate project. These 2 have no link.
Okay. So out of the INR 37,000 redevelopment, still how much is monetized till date?
Nothing is monetized. The only thing the tenders awarded are worth INR 4,000 crore. And some part was done, then it was [ stopped by court ].
Okay. So I just want to know that how are these...
We have [ INR 31,000 ] crore in this redevelopment. Nauroji Nagar project, we have sold property worth INR 2,000 crores.
Okay. And sir, in AIIMS, I just want to know that how much -- how is the funding going to be -- how are we going to receive the funding for this AIIMS redevelopmental that we have given out tenders for?
For redevelopment projects, it is self-sustainable. By selling that commercial property, we'll get the money and from that, we will do the construction. It's self-sustaining [indiscernible] to the government.
Right, right. So sir, in AIIMS, how much you raised until now in that?
Sorry, what is your question?
My question is that for this AIIMS project, how much are you monetized until now from the redevelopment -- I mean from the reselling?
About AIIMS redevelopment project, we will not start it's sale yet, because first we have to get approval from all statutory authorities, then we have to get registered in RERA, only then we can monetize it.
Okay. And any time line...
We are waiting for approvals from local authorities for it.
Next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi.
2 questions. One was if you could help me understand how much has been the order inflow this year?
Order inflow has been INR 12,700 crores until now.
But sir, just to understand this better. I mean if I were to adjust for Amrapali, we've not had much in terms of order inflow for us. So do we see the current trend, and if I were to adjust for let's say I mean INR 8,800 crore rupees on Amrapali, and then we've done only around like INR 300 crores or INR 400-odd crores, this kind of number in almost 9 months now. So is this the run rate we're looking at? Or do you get to see this number going up substantially?
See, out of INR 12,700 crores, Amrapali is INR 8,000 and rest is -- we have this [ INR 5,515 crores ]
Okay. So INR 4,700 crores over the last 9 months is -- is there an element in terms of monthly that you would want to have? Or you are expecting more than this?
We are expecting another 2 months, we will expect some more [indiscernible].
So basically I understand that whatever the targeting [indiscernible] lower on a Y-o-Y basis, but how about FY '21 because I'm assuming by then you would get to have some more clarity on Nauroji and some of these other projects that we [ won’t ] tender out. So what is the growth that we're targeting for next year, FY '21 revenue growth?
Next year, we are targeting around INR 9,000 crores, including the revenues from redevelopmental projects.
Okay. And this would be against what base, sir? This year, what is the number that we are targeting now?
This year we are targeting around INR 6,500 crores.
Okay, okay. So we're looking at almost around 40% kind of growth next year?
Yes, because our redevelopmental projects will start and then we'll make the revenue from that.
Sure. Are there any -- so last year, we had a pretty good year in terms of real estate revenue booking not sales, revenue booking, because we book on project completion basis now. So any big project that is due for completion this year and which could come for recognition in Q4?
Yes. Yes, we expect some projects to complete in this -- I mean in this quarter, we will get completion certificate for some projects. And definitely we will have substantial -- some turnover against the sale of these completed projects.
Next question is from the line of [ Rajiv Rupani ], individual investor.
Yes, sir, you have talked about Nauroji Nagar. So could I have an update on Sarojini Nagar project and Netaji Nagar, that also starts?
What Nauroji Nagar and...
No, I want an update on Sarojini Nagar and Netaji Nagar projects?
You see Sarojini Nagar and Netaji Nagar, after the order instructions to really think through the layout, we'll change the layout, and we have taken almost all the approvals. They are in process. And I think within 2 months, we'll have orders in place, except Forest, which we are pursuing vigorously. So next financial year, we will see -- we can see revenue from these 2 projects also.
And what is the revenue that we expect next year from these projects?
From these projects, at least INR 3,000 crores.
In 1 year, from these 2 projects?
3 projects including Nauroji Nagar.
We take the next question from the line of Dipan Mehta from Elixir.
Just if you could refresh our memory regarding the redevelopment project. So how does the revenue flow work for the year? You still assured the 10% profit margin in consulting, and there is upside based on real estate sold. Could you just briefly explain to us how this is going to work?
With regard to your question, can you repeat?
Yes. So the redevelopment projects, which we have So what is the business model around them? Are you assured of a 10% project management consulting and we get upside if you sell the real estate? Or how does the whole formula of revenue sharing work?
See, the business model of NBCC is like a project management consultant, for which we are paid 10% of the actual cost of the construction. We do not get any upside on difference between sales revenue and construction cost. It is passed on to the land owner, which is the government of India.
But then we are selling real estate as well. I heard you say you are booking sale of property as well, so how...
No, no, we are not booking sale revenues. We are booking actual cost of construction plus NBCC management target.
No, no, you just mentioned that we are expecting INR 100 crores worth of sale of properties, which would kind of...
That is -- please understand, we have 3 business verticals. One is real estate, which we have -- we own the land and we own our properties and we sell it in the market. That is -- from that component, INR 103 crores has been mentioned. We have sold our own property. That is not redevelopment work. Redevelopment work is for on behalf of the landowner or the government which is not being sold by NBCC. It does not cover -- revenue recognition does not take place for that on sale.
Okay. So what is the land bank which we have for this total area which we can construct and what percent has been sold or booked?
We have around 58 acres of land in different parcels, different places in the country, and we are monetizing it as and when the market improves in these cities.
Okay. Just one suggestion, sir. It's a large company with so many projects and so many divisions in the company. Can you please come up with a detailed press release or investor presentation, it will certainly help a lot. And also, all these questions which we're asking all those can be answered by giving all the details in one shot. Please consider.
The management is planning an investors meet very soon in the coming months in Mumbai.
Yes, but this should be more of a quarterly feature. So we know exactly what is the progress on each project and what has been the bill amount and potential revenue. Just helps create a better understanding of the company and more transparent also.
We are not having an overall press meet -- investors meet, but definitely one-to-one interactions are continuing at our office. You are most welcome to come to our office and have a one-to-one meet with the management.
[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of [ Aniket Kulkarni ], individual investor.
Sir, my question is regarding the margins of the company. When we are going through the margins of our PMC business, so I'm talking about profit before tax margins. So in December 2018, it was around 6% which came down to 4.56% in September '19, and 3.96% in this quarter. The same story is for the consolidated business as well. So my question is, what can be the realistic margins that we can expect going forward for our PMC business?
You can see from our results that our overheads are constrained and by the increase in the top line, we are able to enhance our bottom line. And further, with the sale of the real estate also that will contribute to our bottom line. So we are...
Ma'am, I'm just talking about the PMC vertical. I have already excluded the real estate. Just separating the PMC vertical out, it is 3.96% in this December, whereas it was 5.98% last December on a stand-alone basis. So there is a drop of around 2 percentage points. So I need clarity on that.
See, actually, the margins are also going down and the second factor, which I have told you, that our cost is fixed as regards to our salaries and the other expenses. And it seems, in case our bottom line will improve suppose by INR 1,000 crores, as you see, there is a difference between the 9 months turnover for top line in the last year. So you could assess on the INR 1,000 crores of turnover, my average profit works out to be 6%. So INR 60 crore is the straight cut. So that is the major difference. And second difference is on account of my real estate margin. So this year, you are talking about only on the PMC's margins?
Yes, only on the PMC margin.
So, that is basically because of the lower turnover.
Okay, got it, got it. Another question is regarding Nauroji Nagar. So this project comes from PMC model, am I right?
Yes.
So you will be getting 10% fixed fee on that project. p
Yes.
Sir, and my third question is regarding our real estate inventory. So what's the unsold real estate inventory on our books?
INR 1,400 crores.
INR 1,400 crores of unsold inventory. And what inventory are we getting from the Jaypee deal?
That is not part of this. That -- when that company we will acquire, then only it can be considered.
No, but just out of curiosity, I just need to know what is the deal with the Jaypee.
[indiscernible] we can still say that when it comes to NBCC, then we can openly tell you what things are there.
We take the next question from the line of Prem Khurana with Anand Rathi.
Ma'am, I just needed the cash in hand number for the stand-alone entity as well as the consolidated entities and our subsidiaries?
We are having sufficient cash in hand as regards to our subsidiaries is concerned. You can consider our own funds to the tune of INR 450 crores. Overall, we have the deposits of more than INR 4,000 crores.
Okay. And of this stand-alone entities will have how much?
Stand alone, our own margins are around INR 100 crores and subsidiaries are around INR 1,600 crores.
Okay. INR 1,600 crores is between the subsidiaries?
Yes, more than INR 2,500 crores belongs to subsidiaries out of INR 4,000 crores. Right?
One more question is regarding -- so this INR 3,500 crores that you're targeting for given tendering is in Q4 FY '20, if I'm not mistaken, am I right?
Sorry, I don't -- can you repeat your question?
So sir has said that we're targeting INR 3,500 crores of tendering process in Q4 FY '20.
Yes.
And so what will be this number for the whole year in FY '21? Because we are expecting our redevelopment projects also to come in.
Yes, yes.
So what is your total figure, if I'm looking to tendering out?
Tendering out, INR 10,000 crore approximately.
INR 10,000 crores. And of this, my redevelopment projects will be approximately how much?
INR 5,000 crores you can consider.
Is INR 5,000 [indiscernible].
It is approximate. I can't give you now just the figures, right?
And the next question is from the line of Amar Kedia from Emkay Global.
I have 2 questions. One, you mentioned about...
Can you be loud, please?
Yes. Am I audible now?
Yes.
Sir, my first question is about your PMC order book of about INR 34,000 crore, where you mentioned that out of this, about INR 15,000 crore is what you have already awarded out to subcontractors and about INR 3,500 crores to INR 4,000 crores is what you're looking to award in the next 2 months. Is there any reason why the balance, INR 15,000 crore or so is not being ordered out right now?
Balance is about INR 15,000 crore only. So balance INR 15,000 crore actually [indiscernible] of the detailed borrowing and [indiscernible] estimates. So many things are in process, actually. And in some cases, we have to get final approval from the government for the [ DPR ]. So we are awaiting, in fact, all INR 15,000 crore, it is in process, actually. So it will depend on the approval of the government and approval of the statutory local authorities, et cetera, and approval of the [indiscernible], but we are working on the entire balance projects, all balance projects to be awarded.
Okay. The reason I asked this question is because as per my understanding, these orders are with you for more than a year. Even on a straight basis, this year, you have got about INR 12,700 crore of order inflow, while INR 15,000 crore or more is yet to be awarded out any which way. So it's definitely more than a year since you already have these orders with you. So drawing generally doesn't take that much long?
Yes, [ I agree ].
Is there any -- I am trying to understand is that -- is there any stuck project even within the PMC order book?
No. PMC, normally, there is no issue, [ drawings ] and all, I agree with you because it doesn't take much time, maybe not more than a year, it takes 5 to 6 months in Delhi. In Bombay, it takes a little bit more time. But sir, I said [indiscernible] and approval of the final DPR is also stuck up in some cases, which are in process.
Okay. All right. Second is on your INR 37,000 crore of redevelopment order book. I mean how much would be the 3 big projects, which is Netaji Nagar, Sarojini and [ Netaji ] out of the INR 37,000...
It is INR 24,000 crores.
Okay. All right. Is this INR 24,000 crore or even this INR 37,000 crore number, is it something that a part of the contractual agreement that you have with the customer or is it more of a number that you believe is what it is?
No these 2 -- these numbers are already approved by government. Actually, these redevelopment projects, these 3 major projects, these projects are approved by cabinet. So all detail -- estimate detail [ sanction ] is there. And already MOU signed with the government of India.
All right. So in case there is a layout change that happens, we don't know as yet. But in case the court suggests some layout change, then is there a possibility of this INR 37,000 crore number being revised downward significantly?
No. It will have only marginal impact. No substantial impact will be there.
All right. Just one final question. Is that -- you mentioned that roughly INR 4,000 crore of the redevelopment orders are currently tendered out. And you're expecting to book about INR 3,000 crores of revenue out of those INR 4,000 crores next year?
No, I said INR 4,000 crores are -- we know already awarded. Correct. It is 1.5 years that we awarded work of INR 4,000 crore. And we had a substantial phase like Phase 2 and Phase 3. Also we had invited tender for both Netaji Nagar and Sarojini Nagar, but because of this uncertainty, we canceled the tenders actually. So once the projects are cleared, immediately we will invite tender for another INR 5,000, INR 6,000 crores.
Next question is from the line of Ashi Anand from Allegro Capital.
I wanted to understand, as we've seen a fairly large ramp up in terms of revenue, just wanted to understand what kind of operating leverage we should see in terms of margins on the PMC businesses and from where we are currently [Technical Difficulty] able to go back to the 6% kind of margins we were doing in the first half of last year? [Technical Difficulty]
We have the management reconnected. Also, we have the question for [indiscernible].
So the question really was, as we're seeing a large ramp up in revenues next year on the PMC division, should we -- I just wanted to understand what kind of margin expansion we could expect because of the operating leverage come through. So if we look back, say about a year back, we were doing at least around a 6% EBIT margin on PMC. Should we be able to head back to those kind of numbers as redevelopment projects start?
Overall, if you see our operating margin, the gross margin is in the range of 7% to 8%. But due to the lesser turnover, we are not able to reach the EBITDA target that we are talking about around 6%. But even then, as we ramp up our revenues in the next financial year, we expect a greater improvement in the margins because our large value redevelopment projects with a higher PMC margin of around 8% to 10% [indiscernible] and then we can expect a higher EBITDA on that [indiscernible].
Sir, secondly, if you could just give some update on the various companies that we had acquired, HSCL, HSCC, PIL. What is the status in terms of each of those? How are they doing or any order book or ramp up margins, et cetera, if you could just give some highlights?
We had acquired 2 companies. Hindustan Steelwork Construction Limited, HSCL and HSCC, which is Hospital Services Consultancy company. So we can tell you the consolidated result.
Actually, I was just trying to understand some qualitative kind of feel in terms of how the acquisitions have turned out. As I understand, last year, we had some problems, if I'm not mistaken, on HSCC in terms of accounting or something. I just wanted to understand, just broadly, how have they -- are they are growing, the profitability?
Yes, HSCC is doing fine. They have contributed overall turnover to the extent of INR 1,400 crore for the 9-month period to NBCC's consolidated results, if you will [indiscernible]. And regards to that issue of some unaccounted entries in the HSCC, for that forensic audit is going on and that we have been able to resolve out of the 4 accounts, 2 accounts have already been reconciled. There is an issue only with 2 accounts, and we are hopeful that there has been [Audio Gap] come up now. And rather they have already made a huge provision in their books of accounts to the extent of INR 30 crores, whereas it will come out to a low number, maybe around INR 5 crores only.
Okay. And if we adjust for the impact of the forensic audit on these unaccounted entries, are both HSCC and HSCL, are they both profitable? What sort of margins do they make at the EBITDA level?
Yes. Both the companies are profitable and HSCC's EBITDA level is 1.81% and HSCL is around 1%. And HSCL will further improve because they faced the IR issues. Now the company is stable and doing good and also getting the order book, which we will share with you through e-mail, right?
Well, ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference back to Mr. Viral Shah for his closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Yes. Thank you, everyone, for participating in the call. I especially thank the management of NBCC India for giving us an opportunity to host the call. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We are expecting a bright future. Thank you so much.
Thank you. On behalf of Prabhudas Lilladher, we conclude today's conference. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.
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