Norsk Hydro ASA (NHY) Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning, and welcome to Hydro's Third Quarter 2026 Presentation and Q&A. We will start off with a presentation by the President and CEO, Eivind Kallevik; and a financial update from CFO, Trond Christophersen, before we finish off with the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] With that, I turn the microphone over to you, Eivind.

Thank you, Gerd, and good morning from me as well. So let me start with safety as we always do. Our injury and high-risk incident rates remain at low levels, but the development over the last year is somewhat worrying. Both the TRI and the HRI rates are creeping up from the record lows that we reported a few quarters ago. In response to this, we are intensifying our efforts towards our target of 0 injuries and high-risk incidents. And for me, safety really starts with our responsibility to ensure that everybody working for Hydro returns home safely every day. But it is also closely linked to operational excellence because staying sharp on safety helps us prevent incidents, allowing us to spend more time on improving our operations and less time on responding when things go wrong. Now the third quarter was characterized by continued strong operational performance across most of our business areas as well as good progress on our strategic agenda. The adjusted EBITDA for the quarter came in at NOK 9.1 billion with free cash flow coming in at NOK 1.4 billion. That is affected by higher metal prices, associated working capital requirements as well as some timing effects that we will come back to. While this development reflects the current market environment, improving the cash conversion and working capital efficiency remains a clear priority for us going forward and into the fourth quarter. At Alouette, decisive action enabled us to restore regular operations following the temporary gas disruption in gas supply in August. However, higher energy costs will continue to affect the refinery going into the fourth quarter. Also happy to announce that we produced our first aluminum at our HalZero test facility, an important milestone towards our ambition of eliminating CO2 emissions from electrolysis and from anode consumption. At the same time, commercial momentum for our recycled and low-carbon offerings continues with new agreements and customer partnerships in both the European as well as the U.S. market. We also signed 2 new power purchase agreements this quarter with Statkraft and [ Babak ] Energy, securing an additional 8.9 terawatt hours towards 2040 and further strengthening our long-term power position. Alumina production remained stable despite the gas supply disruption, while our Norwegian smelters achieved record high liquid metal production. Power production was somewhat lower this quarter, largely reflecting the hydrological conditions, while extrusion delivered sales volume growth. As such, adjusted ROCE came in at 12.5%, well above the target of 10% over the cycle. So let me turn to Alunorte, where we took decisive action to address the disruptions to our gas supply in August. Following supply constraints from [indiscernible] was forced to temporarily reduce aluminum production to around 50% of capacity. We secured regulatory approval to import gas directly and reached a temporary agreement for access also to the LNG terminal. This together with spot LNG purchases enabled us to begin ramping up production back up. quickly towards full capacity again. However, maintaining operations came at a cost with gas purchases at prices substantially above the previously contracted levels. The financial impact in the third quarter was approximately $85 million. And for the fourth quarter, we estimate an impact of between $90 million to $110 million from the gas price differential. This estimate is based on TTF forward curves and remains subject to changes in gas prices, production levels and other relevant factors. Our main focus moving forward is securing a long-term solution that strengthens our supply on competitive terms. Looking beyond the operational challenges in Brazil. The rest of the system delivered good progress and operational agenda. On the commercial side, our customer partnerships show how low carbon and recycled aluminum can translate into new applications and strengthen our premium position. Together with Siemens Mobility, we are developing the train to train pilots, recycling aluminum from decommission trains into material for new rail components. This brings together our recycling and extrusion capabilities to increase circularity in large infrastructure projects. We are also making progress with leading automotive and consumer brands in the U.S. as well as in Europe. And I will elaborate on this on the next slide. Finally, we have secured new [indiscernible] offtake in the U.S. with a large automotive supplier. This metal will be produced at our Cassopolis plant in Michigan as well as our Henderson plant in Kentucky. Operationally, our Norwegian smelters delivered a record liquid metal production, up year-on-year. Also in extrusions, we saw volumes increasing by 3%, and we delivered strong recycling results. Finally, competitive renewable power remains fundamental to our position. And with the PPAs finalized this past quarter, we have already secured around 90% of our Norwegian baseline power consumption in the 2030s. And we will continue to pursue additional long-term supply to strengthen competitiveness and to enable future low-carbon aluminum growth. So let me elaborate on 3 developments that we are particularly proud of, where leading brands are choosing [indiscernible] low carbon and recycled aluminum. So this quarter, we have signed a strategic partnership with Chanel Fragrance and Beauty to develop the next generation of low carbon aluminum packaging. And together, we will work on reducing emissions strengthening traceability and exploring increased recycled content without compromising quality and design. And for me, this is a low volume but high impact partnership. And the significant really goes beyond the tonnes, which we have to admit and in all honesty, is quite limited. In the U.S., General Motors New car Cadillac optic will feature a front bumper system made with our seal from Cassopolis. Working together with Automotive Supplier Shape Corp. we are bringing aluminum containing at least 75% post-consumer scrap into a safety critical automotive application. Likewise, Mercedes-Benz will become the first automotive company in Europe to integrate Hutosekal into serious production towards next generation of large electric vehicles. And this really builds on our existing collaboration on low-carbon primary aluminum and extends the partnership further into recycling. Both Mercedes-Benz and GM are high-impact examples of how partnerships can help solve demanding technical challenges when bringing high levels of post-consumer scrap into safety-critical components. And getting there requires moving beyond what we see as a traditional supplier relationship. It meets working together on specifications and metal chemistry without compromising strict requirements for material quality, safety and performance. And these partnerships also make a broader point, and that is that trust has a commercial value. Because when brands like these [indiscernible], they put their own reputation behind that choice. And that trust is earned through quality, reliable delivery and how we conduct our businesses. Their expectations for lower emissions, traceability and recycled comment challenge us also to keep improving. And these partnerships really reinforce my confidence in the long-term opportunities for low carbon and recycled aluminum and in our ability to turn our strength into real business opportunities. And on that note, we have also reached an important milestone in the HalZero project, where we have produced the first aluminum using the HalZero process. And for me, this is an important milestone, providing the core technology -- proving the core technology beyond the lab-scale tests that we have already succeeded with. HalZero takes a fundamentally different route from today's production technology, converting alumina into aluminum chloride before we do the electrolysis. The long-term ambition, of course, is to eliminate CO2 emissions from both electrolysis and annual production releasing oxygen [indiscernible]. And producing this first metal is an important step. Still, we have several years of testing and piloting remaining before potential industrial scale deployment. And we have to admit the patch is not totally emission-free as the testing of the CO2 or split to CO will commence at a later stage. The next step is now to develop an industrial concept pilots with the ambition of bringing all the necessary process stages together. Additionally, we have also been granted NOK 82 million in soft funding for concept development and planning of the industrial pilot by Enova. Going forward, there are still several milestones to pass before the technology is ready for Board use. However, this one gives us an important foundation for continuing pushing forward on this technology path. For several years, the story of European industry has largely been one of closures and declining competitiveness. But this quarter, Slovalco began moving in the opposite direction. Now following the agreement announced in July, the restart began in late August, bringing back primary capacity curtail during the European energy crisis in 2022. The first phase targets 75,000 tonnes of annual capacity by the end of February next year. What made this possible was a combination of political will and long-term power agreement and a more predictable framework of compensation of indirect carbon costs in Slovalco. And in many ways, Slovalco demonstrate that Europe's industrial decline is not inevitable because many of the challenges facing European industry are shaped by political choices and better choices can help turn the trend. One restart does not resolve Europe's industrial challenges overnight, but it does show but competitive energy and the predictable framework conditions can bring investment and production back. And for me, that's really what Slovak represents. A concrete example of European industry investing and rebuilding when the conditions are right. Now let's then have a look at alumina markets. In the third quarter, the POX increased throughout the quarter, reaching $370 per tonne, up from $330 per ton at the end of the second quarter. This diverge from Chinese alumina prices, which moved downwards as new refinery capacity came online. The Chinese market became increasingly oversupplied with prices close to marginal cash production costs. Outside China, the market also remained oversupplied during the quarter despite lower production at certain Indonesian refineries facing raw material supply challenges. For the full year, the estimated global surplus has narrowed to 1.3 million tonnes compared with the 1.6 million tonnes we presented last quarter. Now if we look ahead into 2027, the global surplus is expected to narrow further to around 200,000 tonnes with a deficit of around 600,000 tonnes outside China. The Atlantic differential remained at record levels and is currently around $45 per tonne. A further development to watch is the bauxite supply from Guinea which is approximately half of China's alumina production is approximately half of what China's alumina production depends on [indiscernible]. Guinea government is considering restriction on annual export volumes, but no formal announcement has been made as of today. We then move to the aluminum market. The Middle East situation continued to influence the market during the third quarter. And last quarter, we described the sharp correction in prices as expectations for supply improved. In the third quarter, renewed tensions contributed to prices moving higher again. The 3-month aluminum price ended the third quarter at $3,170 per ton up from $3085 at the end of the second quarter. Global primary aluminum consumption was slightly higher in the third quarter the year compared to last year. that was really supported by a 3% growth in Asia. Consumption ex China, however, is estimated to have declined somewhat. And the global market for 2026 is still expected to be undersupplied. And the estimated deficit is now around 700,000 tonnes, down from just under 1 million tonnes presented last quarter. This reflects an animated surplus of 1.1 million tonnes outside China, more than offset by a deficit of 1.8 million tonnes in China. Looking into 2027. The balance is expected to shift to a global surplus of around 1.4 million tonnes as the surplus outside China increases. Regional premiums remain elevated. The U.S. Midwest premium remains around $2,400 per tonne, broadly in line with the level that we saw at the end of the second quarter. European duty paid premiums in the third quarter largely unchanged at $555 per tonne compared with the $558 per tonne at the end of the second quarter. So overall, the market remains tight this year, with geopolitical developments continuing to influence prices, while the estimated balance points to increased supply availability in 2027. And finally, let's have a look at the [indiscernible] markets, where demand expectations remain challenging in certain areas in the quarter. In Europe, estimates that extrusion demand increased by 1% year-on-year in the third quarter following marginal growth in the second quarter. Automotive demand remained positive, supported by continued growth in battery electric vehicle production. Nonautomotive transportation also turned positive at the weak start of the year where building and construction has remained broadly flat. In North America, Demand increased by just 0.2% year-on-year, following a decline in the first half. And this is somewhat weaker than the recovery anticipated last quarter. Commercial Transportation continued to grow supported by improving cloud rates. Industrial demand also remained solid, partly supported by pull from the data center development. Automotive demand in North America, however, remains subdued, reflecting continued headwinds in the electric vehicle production. Now looking ahead, CRU has revised down its full year outlook. Europe is still expected to see modest growth while North America is now expected to see a slight decline compared with the growth anticipated last quarter. CRU has also revised its historical North American demand estimates, changing the comparison base. And with that, I'll hand it over to Trond Olaf for the financial update for the quarter.

Thank you, Eivind, and good morning, and welcome from my side as well. We will start with the financial highlights for the quarter, and all numbers will be presented in Norwegian kroner. Comparing year-over-year, revenue increased by around 3% to NOK 52.1 billion for Q3. This was driven by higher all-in metal prices. For Q3, we delivered an adjusted EBITDA of NOK 9.1 billion and the reported EBITDA of NOK 8.7 billion. these adjusting items was NOK 400 million, mainly related to unrealized derive loss on LME-related contracts of NOK 300 million. The adjusted EBIT for Q3 was NOK 6.3 billion with reported EBIT of NOK 5.9 billion. In addition to the adjusting items to EBITDA, there was a NOK 70 million in adjusting items impacting EBIT related to impairments. The difference between the adjusted and the reported EBIT was NOK 500 million. Net financial income for Q3 was NOK 1.5 billion positive. This was mainly driven by unrealized foreign exchange gains of NOK 1.8 billion and interest and finance income of NOK 300 million, partly offset by interest and financial expense of EUR 700 million. The income tax expense was SEK 2.1 billion in Q3, impacted by strong earnings before tax. The reported tax rate for Q3 was 29%. We Overall, this resulted in an adjusted net income of NOK 4.4 billion with a reported net income of SEK 5.3 billion. The total adjusting items to net income was NOK 900 million which is the foreign exchange gain of -- sorry, of NOK 1.8 billion, reduced by the EBIT adjusting items of NOK 500 million and an income tax effect of NOK 500 million. Adjusted net income was up from NOK 1.9 billion in the same quarter last year and down from NOK 4.6 billion in Q2. Consequently, adjusted earnings per share was NOK 2.28 per share for Q3 '26, up from NOK 1.02 per share in Q3 2020. Free cash flow ended at SEK 1.4 billion for the quarter. And the divergence between the net income numbers and free cash flow is mainly explained by net operating capital build that I will come back to later in the presentation. And finally, adjusted net debt was NOK 21.9 billion at the end of Q3. Then looking at the results, Q3 compared to Q2. Adjusted EBITDA increased from SEK 8.9 billion to NOK 9.1 billion. The key drivers were higher all-in aluminum prices, lower fixed costs and improved commercial results in metal markets. This was partly offset by higher raw material costs, seasonally lower volumes in extrusions and recycling and lower results in energy, realized all-in aluminum prices and premiums contributed positively by around NOK 600 million. And the alumina price development contributed positively by NOK 300 million. Upstream volume development had a net negative impact of NOK 100 million, explained by lower sales volumes in bauxite and alumina due to the gas supply disruptions. This was partly offset by higher sales volumes in aluminum metal. Raw material costs increased by NOK 1.1 billion, mainly due to higher gas costs in bauxite and alumina and higher energy cost and carbon costs in aluminum metal. Extrusions had a lower result in Q3 compared to Q2 due to seasonally lower sales volumes and lower margins due to product mix of about NOK 360 million. And recycling results in Metal Markets were slightly down due to seasonally lower volumes by NOK 20 million. In the Energy business area, we had a net negative impact of SEK 200 million, mainly driven by a loss on price area differences and net spot purchases in the bar market. Fixed costs decreased in Q3 with an impact of NOK 390 million. This is mainly explained by seasonally lower fixed costs due in aluminum metal and extrusions. We saw a positive NOK 100 million in currency effects, mainly driven by the weaker Norwegian kroner to the U.S. dollar. In the other category, there was a positive effect quarter-over-quarter of NOK 400 million. and the largest effect was improved results in commercial activities in Metal Markets. Eliminations had limited effect quarter-over-quarter. Moving then to the debt development. And the debt development through the quarter. Net debt decreased by NOK 800 million from NOK 16.3 billion to NOK 15.4 billion, from end of Q2 to end of Q3. We delivered a free cash flow of NOK 1.4 billion in Q3. The adjusted EBITDA of NOK 9.1 billion contributed positively. This was offset by a net operating capital build of NOK 3.7 billion during the quarter due to inventory builds and prepayments of gas in Alunorte in addition to CO2 compensation receivable in aluminum metal. Other operating cash flow of negative NOK 2 billion contains income tax payments, interest payments on debt reversal of unrealized effect from positive trading results in addition to a prepayment of power contract in Slovalco. And finally, we saw a net cash effective investment of NOK 2 billion in Q3, reflecting normal investment activity level in the business areas. Other changes to net debt of NOK 400 million mainly contains net positive FX effects on debt and cash of NOK 800 million, offset by new lease obligations during the quarter. In total, this gives a net debt position at end Q3 of NOK 15.4 billion. Moving on to adjustments to net debt. we saw an increase in hedging collateral and other by NOK 400 million following the large decline we saw last quarter. Our net positive pension position was further strengthened by NOK 400 million due to higher interest rates and increasing asset values. Other liabilities remained stable during Q3. All elements considered we ended up at an adjusted net debt position at the end of Q3 of NOK 21.9 billion. Turning then to our strong focus on capital discipline and updates to year-end net operating capital and CapEx guidance. We have revised our outlook for year-end net operating capital from around 30 billion that we gave last year at the Investor Day to around NOK 32 billion. And the increase is mainly driven by higher metal prices and premiums that have taken effect through 2026, impacting value of inventories and receivables. On CapEx, we are lowering our full year guidance from around NOK 13.5 billion to around NOK 12.5 billion. The reduction mainly reflects timing effects and project execution facing across the portfolio. While some investments are expected to be pushed into next year, our strategic priorities and underlying investment plans remain unchanged. Overall, the updated guidance reflects current market conditions and the timing of investments while maintaining a disciplined approach to capital allocation and cash flow generation. Moving then to the business areas and starting with the bauxite and alumina. Import and alumina adjusted EBITDA came in at NOK 283 million for Q3, down from NOK 1.3 billion in the same quarter last year and NOK 522 million in Q2. The year-on-year decline was mainly driven by lower alumina prices, natural gas supply disruption and higher LNG sourcing costs as well as adverse Brazilian reals to U.S. dollar exchange rate effects. Looking at the Q4 outlook, we expect higher sales volumes as production is fully recovered together with support from improved alumina prices. We expect higher energy costs following the gas supply disruption and the need for spot LNG purchases at prices above the contracted levels. And we estimate the financial impact to be in the range of USD 90 million to USD 110 million negative, subject to changes in gas prices and other relevant factors. Then moving to aluminum metal. In aluminum metal, adjusted EBITDA increased year-over-year from NOK 2.7 billion in Q3 last year to NOK 7 billion this quarter. result was driven by higher all-in metal prices, and this was partly offset by negative currency effects, reflecting the stronger Norwegian kroner against the U.S. dollar and increasing energy and raw material costs. Compared to Q2, adjusted EBITDA increased by NOK 600 million. And the key drivers were higher all-in metal prices, including realized premiums. This was partly offset by somewhat higher energy and raw material costs line with our outlook given for Q3 at the Q2 reporting. And this brings me to the outlook for the next quarter. For Q4, Aluminum Metal has booked 59% of the primary production at USD 3,148 per metric ton. This includes the effect of our strategic hedging program. Aluminum metal has also booked 49% of the premiums effect in Q4 at USD 742 per ton. We expect realized premium to end up in the range of USD 550 to USD 600 per ton. On the cost side, carbon costs are expected to increase NOK 250 million to NOK 350 million. Alumina cost is expected to increase NOK 100 million to NOK 200 million. And finally, fixed costs are expected to increase by SEK 150 million to SEK 250 million after a seasonally low level in Q3. For Metal Markets, the adjusted EBITDA decreased from NOK 154 million in Q3 NOK 225 million in Q3 '26. Sourcing and trading activities had a negative result of NOK 140 million this quarter, where around NOK 100 million is due to the Middle East disruptions, where increased logistic costs is the main driver. The recycling business delivered NOK 270 million positive results, up from NOK 93 million in Q3 '25. Excluding the currency and inventory valuation effects, Metal Markets delivered a result of NOK 175 million in Q3 '26, which is flat compared to the same quarter last year. Compared to the previous quarter, adjusted EBITDA for Metal Markets came up from NOK 32 million in Q2 to NOK 225 million in Q3. And the main drivers were smaller losses in sourcing and trading partly offset by slightly weaker recycling results. Recycling had another solid quarter. Adjusted EBITDA declined marginally from NOK 286 million in Q2 to NOK 269 million in Q3. Weaker results in the U.S. were compensated for by strong improvements in the results in Europe. For Q4, we expect a somewhat weaker results in recycling due to seasonality. We expect the results from sourcing and trading activities to continue to be under pressure in Q4 with a range of minus NOK 150 million to minus NOK 250 million. Guiding reflects additional costs from the Middle East related disruptions and the continued impact of backwardated markets. The main driver for the Middle East reception is the increased progestins and handling costs for the Middle East volumes due to the loss of the marketing and offtake agreement in Qatar. As always, we emphasize the inherent volatility of trading and currency fluctuations. Then moving to the extrusions business area. In extrusions, Q3 adjusted EBITDA increased year-over-year from NOK 1.1 billion to NOK 1.2 billion, supported by strong recycling margins, especially in the U.S. as well as increased sales volumes. Comparing to Q2, adjusted EBITDA decreased from NOK 1.4 billion to NOK 1.2 billion in Q3, driven by seasonally lower sales volumes, partly offset by higher recycling margins. Despite the seasonal slowdown, sales volumes developed positively as expected when compared to the same quarter last year, while ongoing restructuring initiatives continued according to plan. restructuring and associated volume transfers had a negative impact on the cost level as well as in the quarter. And finally, negative currency translation effects also impacted the results. For extrusions, we should underline that we always compare coming quarter to the same quarter last year due to strong seasonality. So then when looking at Q4, we expect higher sales volumes. The current strong recycling margins in the U.S. and Europe are expected to continue into Q4. And overall margins for the business area are stable. In Q4 2025, we had an extraordinary positive metal effect from increasing Midwest premiums. The year-over-year effect is estimated approximately NOK 210 million negative at current premium levels from Q4 '25 to Q4 '26. The Q4 metal effect will depend on the Midwest premium development throughout this quarter. The ongoing restructuring efforts are expected to strengthen overall business performance and support future profitability. And then finally, moving to the final business area, Hydro Energy. Adjusted EBITDA came in at just above SEK 400 million in Q3, down from NOK 800 million in the same quarter last year. And the main driver was the price area loss compared to the price area gain last year. This reflected continued relatively higher prices in Central Norway than in Southern Norway and in Sweden where energy has production and power sourcing and the long-term contracts. Compared to Q2 this year, adjusted EBITDA fell from NOK 500 million in Q2 to NOK 400 million in Q3. The decrease is mainly due to somewhat lower production and slightly higher loss due to the price area differences. Other changes had a limited net impact as stronger commercial results largely were offset by seasonally higher production costs. The price area loss was at around NOK 180 million negative in Q3 compared to NOK 170 million negative in Q2. Looking ahead to Q4. As always, we should be aware of the weather-driven inherent price and volume uncertainty in energy. As winter approaches and demand increases, we expect the usual seasonal increase in production and power prices. Reservoir levels in our production areas remain below normal, while the planned drawdown of reservoirs at the Chilean power plant in Norway, ahead of maintenance is expected to increase production in Q1 and also Q1 -- Q4 and also Q1 next year. Based on the current outlook, losses from price area differences should -- or could remain broadly in line with Q3, although the outcome will depend significantly on weather developments during the quarter. And this ends the business area presentation. And with that, I end the financial update and give the word back to. Then to wrap up our today's session, I'll briefly summarize our priorities. Our #1 priority remains the safety, health and well-being of our employees. And the recent increase in injury and high-risk incident rates B enforces the need to intensify our efforts towards 0. Because strong results are really only meaningful when everybody returns home safely. Against the backdrop of continued geopolitical turbulence and unpredictable markets, maintaining operational robustness and delivering reliably for our customers remain key priorities. This quarter, our Norwegian smelters delivered record liquid metal production, while decisive action at Alunorte enables to respond to the gas supply disruption and begin ramping production back up swiftly. We also remain focused on delivering on our growth ambitions in recycling, in extrusions and in renewable energy. Strong recycling results, improvements in extrusion sales volumes and new long-term power agreements demonstrate continued progress in strengthening our competitive position. And at the same time, we continue to execute on our decarbonization and technology roba. Producing the first aluminum with HalZero is an important milestone. Several years of testing and piloting remain, but it represents a concrete step in developing the technology needed for the future. And finally, we continue to seize commercial opportunities for low carbon as well as recycled aluminum. Our progress this quarter with Chanel, General Motors and Mercedes-Benz demonstrate how our capabilities and the trust we have earned can translate into new customer applications and long-term business opportunities. So overall, I am pleased with the strong operational performance across most of our business areas and the progress on our strategic priorities. With that, thank you so much for your attention, and over to you, Gal.

[Operator Instructions] So the first question is from Melia. Q4 premiums. Can you explain why the Q4 realized premium is so low? Billet premium were recently over $1,000 per ton. And the European premium is currently $580 per tonne.

Yes. So just a reminder, when we guide on the realized premium for the quarter, we have a mix of different Costas products and the product we sell at the later stage the standard Ingo product with the lowest underlying premiums. So that's why you will typically see that the guiding on the premium to be realized for the coming quarter is always lower than the premiums we have locked in. So it's a product mix effect rather than a general market effect. I think also, as you will see this quarter is that we started at least some weeks back with extrusion ingot premiums above 1,000 I think currently in market, it is around NOK 850 million. So it is on the way down, and that is also partly affecting the realized premium we estimate for the quarter.

Next question is from Patrick. Regarding the Alunorte gas contract with new progress, do you expect to issue indicative EBITDA scenarios or some kind of cost guidance in the November Capital Markets Day based on around spot LNG prices.

So we've given the guidance the way we see it now for fourth quarter. And I think it will be natural to come back with the status update at the Investor Day, Patrick. So yes, we will comment on the development of also secured long-term contracts at that point in time.

Next question from Amos regarding Alunorte gas supply. What is your expectation for the replacement of long-term contracts that will be signed.

So we are working hard on getting a new long-term competitive gas supply contract in place. again, we have guided for spot purchases in Q4 and then we should come back to the topic on Investor Day later in November and give you an update as to where we are.