PNC Infratech Limited (PNCINFRA) Earnings Call Transcript
June 26, 2020
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
[Audio Gap] Our net worth on a stand-alone basis is 2,547 crore as on 31 March '20. Total stand-alone debt is INR 326 crore, which is availed for equipment finance. We do not have any working capital loan outstanding as on 31 March '20. The total cash and bank balance is INR 744 crore. We have a net cash [ debt ] at level of INR 418 crore. Net debt-to-equity comes to 0.13x. On consol basis, our net worth is 2,554 crore INR, whereas total debt is INR 3,515 crore around 31 March '20. The total cash and bank balance, including current investment is INR 1,273 crore, and net debt-to-equity comes to 1.38x. With this, now open the floor for question, answer.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from IDFC Securities.
Yes. Congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, my first 3 questions. Firstly, sir, on -- are we giving any guidance for FY '21 revenue, EBITDA margin and capital expenditure? And what's the tax [indiscernible] expense FY '21? And secondly, sir, what is the status of all the land acquisition for all the HAM projects? And when do you expect the appointed date to award it to us? And thirdly, sir, we -- there are some state, other arbitration claims of around INR 1,000 crores for the Dholpur-Morena, Raebareli. Some things happened in the quarter? Some reconciliation, some progress which you could update?
We are expecting appointed date for the new HAM projects, I think, in November, up to 1 November.
All 4 of these?
Yes. All 4 of that. The status of land is increasing in all the 4 new HAM projects as acquisition of around 80% target [indiscernible] . Already completed an acquisition of [indiscernible] in progress. So we don't think any delay in declaration of appointed dates due to lag for the HAM.
And, sir, the guidance? Guidance for FY '21, are we giving any guidance right now?
Yes, yes. We are now, given the uncertainty and unpredictability, we don't know how the things will unfold. And also monsoon, how the monsoon -- how much would be the [indiscernible] during the second quarter. So what we start giving any indication of guidance at this point of time would be a bit speculative so we'll certainly share as things unfold, guidance for now [ will be misleading ]. But for me, we expect to have a decent revenue this year also. But we can't say it for -- we can't give any firm guidance at this point of time.
Understood. What kind of activity was there in Q1, sir, compared to last quarter?
Pardon me?
what kind of activity level was there in last -- in this quarter compared to last year same quarter? I'm talking about Q1 FY '21, the April and May and June?
Yes. See, as of now, our activities have again picked it up up to 75% of the normal level pre-lockdown time because it's 25% progress is hampered mainly due to the exodus of the migrant labor. So as the labor is coming back, we expect to reach the normal levels post monsoon. As of now, the 75% normalcy is achieved.
And sir, last question, sir, what is the status of arbitration claims? Either reconciliation is in progress right now? Is there something which happened during the quarter?
See, this quarter -- particularly in the last quarter and this quarter, till now, no hearings could take place. Now we expect the hearing should be resumed in the -- from July onwards through video conferencing. As of now, all 4 matters are hearings are under going.
So we are not expecting any award in this quarter.
Yes, yes. That's correct.
[Operator Instructions] The question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.
Congratulation on a very good set of numbers, especially on the balance sheet side, we have reduced our net working capital day significantly. And even the net cash levels are really very good to look at. Sir, my question was, sir, was there any onetime -- because the cash levels look really high. So was there any mobilization advance which is unutilized and received during the last quarter or, say, March, in the month of March, which could have resulted in such high cash levels?
Okay, March 19, 20 we were having an advance in all INR 694 crore, which has reduced to now INR 573 crore in the June 20.
Incrementally, how much of the cash would be because of the advances you would have received, that is my question.
Presently, we are having only INR 570 crore of the advance [indiscernible] from the department. And in a way, there [ are debtors also ].
Okay, sir, I'll take this off-line. My second question is on the HAM portfolio. So now we have 11 assets, including the new ones and total around INR 1,500 to INR 1,600. And over 3 years, this would be the buildup in the equity. So any thoughts on monetization of the portfolio and given also that we have not [ either ] have decided to stay away, I mean, not going ahead with that Cube deal. So that will add another INR 300 crores to this. So how do you intend to monetize this equity build up in the company and recycle it for growth?
As we have told in the last call, that discussion, which was underwired with 2, 3 prospective investors on monetization of HAM project. Now currently, it is under hold because as you know, the bank rate is substantially reduced from 6.4% to 4.25%. So presently, at this point of time, they are under hold. And definitely, we are going to the monetize. And after this situation will come in normal.
And just you gave, sir, last question on this Jal Jeevan missions. So there has been some award which has happened during 1 of them, GMC got and other players, larger players have also got it. So as a diversification, we were earlier looking at roads. Now this kind of big ordering is happening in U.P. So how are we present in addressing this opportunity for the company? And also on diversification, how do you intend to go about it? Because as of now, nothing much has really happened besides [indiscernible]in the company. We have been talking about diversification, but nothing really has come off as of now. So if you can touch upon these things.
We are keeping closely watch on these tenders and try to get the joint venture to some other company for some projects. And expected, we will get and 1 or 2 projects in first phase and trying big way in second phase.
Okay. And on diversification, sir?
Rectification?
diversification.
This is a [ walk up assessment ] or this is a part of diversification -- diversification process only because this is a water sector project so we see whether we find any synergy in other sectors. So we'll explore the possibility of diversification into those sectors also.
The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Sir, firstly, just wanted to know how many projects we have bidded? I understand we cannot give the guidance. So first, I wanted to understand how many projects have we bidded both on EPC and HAM, and what kind of more bidding are we looking in the next 1 or 2 months? And at the same time, broadly, how much inflow are we looking at? Previously, we are looking at 7,000 to 9,000 in the March quarter, the award did not happen from NHA side. So just broadly, I understand we cannot give the concrete guidance, but broadly, how much are we looking at? And are we still looking at more HAM projects?
Yes. First thing, since no bidding has been happening during the last 3 months post lockdown. So no -- there is just no project is pending where we have submitted any bid so no bid is pending. Second thing, NHA now floated around 100 projects above on EPC and HAM projects, but out of that, around 60 projects, they've given some weightage ranging from July to September. So we are looking at these project opportunities. Going forward, we'll bid these select projects, but our preference would be since we have already secured 4 HAM projects, our preference would be on EPC. We try to secure more EPC projects and try to pitch for more EPC projects going forward. And we expect a new total order inflow of around INR 7,000 crores in the current financial year.
We think second half will be better for bidding purpose?
Yes.
Yes. I understand. Secondly, sir, is it possible to give this INR 404 crore equity to be invested in the 5 to 7 projects, how much would be there in this FY '21? And what would be in the next year? And secondly, related to this, if we are saying that we will be achieving the appointed date by October, November for 4 HAM projects, then how much do we require to invest 50% equity for that in this FY '21. So put together both how much equity to be invested in this year and next year?
Total equity requirement for 7 HAM project is 848 crore INR out of that INR 444 crore, we have already infused till March. So remaining is INR 404 crores. And therefore, new HAM project, we require around INR 600 crores. The total equity requirement is [ till at least 1,000 ] crore.
Year wise, tentatively, in FY '21, we are expecting INR 280 crore. In FY '22, around INR 380 crores, in FY '23, around 175 crore INR. But this may vary because we infused our fund only when we take the disbursement from the bank just to maintain the debt equity. So as against the requirement of INR 1,000 crores, we are having own generation net still year around 1,700 crore from own generation. In addition to that...
How much INR 1,700 crore you said?
Yes, INR 1,700 crores cash generation next [Foreign Language], comfortably, very conservatively. And in addition to that, we are having a surplus long-term debt around INR 420 crore as on March 31. So in total, we are adding around INR 2,100 crores, including the generation, I don't think any -- there is a problem for infusion in existing HAM projects. In addition to that, we are also thinking for monetization of the HAM projects. Similarly, [ Aligarh ] is also there -- we are expecting around INR 300 crore, so I don't think any -- there is any problem to infuse any equity in these projects.
So even if there is a delay in monetization and then also, there will be no issue in increasing this INR 1,000 crore in equity?
As I told me my own generation will be around 6 -- INR 1,700 crore and we have of INR 400 crores carry forward. So as I get INR 2,100 crores, we required only INR 1,000 crores. So I don't think any problem.
Sir, I made up the order book for some of the projects, which are not there in the presentation. So if you can share, then it will be a great help. So first one is [indiscernible]. Yes. Varanasi-Gorakhpur, sir?
Varanasi-Gorakhpur is INR 209 crore, INR 200 crore.
INR 200 crores?
INR 200 crores. Yes.
Okay. Bhojpur-Buxar and Koliawar-Bhojpur?
Bhojpur-Buxar is INR 300 crore and Koliwar is INR 270 crore, balance.
Yes, yes. I am asking balance one only, sir. And just a second sir. Chitradurga-Davanagere?
Chitradurga-Davanagere INR 470 crore.
INR 470 crores and Jhansi Package I and Package II?
Package I is INR 470 crore and Package II is INR 370 crore.
Okay. And Aligarh-Kanpur?
Aligarh-Kanpur, INR 480 crore.
INR 480 crores.
4-8-0.
Yes. And sir, broadly, in terms of the remaining HAM projects where we will be having the FCN accounted date so in terms of the EPC value, sir, as already mentioned, broadly of INR 15,000 crores. So the current order book is INR 8,600 crores minus broader roughly around INR 6,500 crores, 7,000 crores would be the EPC value of this 4 HAM projects.
These all 4 HAM projects, including the Challakere. Which we have not received by a low a quantitate. We have not booked in the work EPC contract [ the land ] that in INR 933 crores. [indiscernible] INR 7,000 crore total would be around INR 15,000 crores.
If we ended the contract, so in [indiscernible] , it becomes more than INR 15,000 crores.
Okay. And lastly, sir,... Okay. I will be in queue.
The next question is from the line of [ Chinna Avinash ] from Spark Capital.
Sir, first 1 is on -- sir, what was the CapEx that was done in FY '20? And any guidance for FY '21, 22, assuming these new HAM projects that will commence by November?
FY '20 CapEx was INR 78 crores and we are expecting in 2020 were around INR 70 crore, INR 75 crores at least.
Is that assuming the new HAM projects?
Yes.
Sir, on the labor availability, what is the current levels on ground? And any support from government in ramping up of migrant labor issue on ground?
We are facing labor problem in each and every site. [ Writing ] 70% -- 70% to 80% leverage every day, but we are facing problem continuously.
Okay. sir, on the -- yes, yes, understood. So being in this geography, isn't it that we can expect a faster ramp up when compared to others in the industry?
Basically, the skill set has to be matched here. There is a lot of migrant labor that inflow of migrant labor into UP and [indiscernible] region, but only would be the issue of skill sets. Because would be [ needing ] labor, particularly semi-skilled and skilled kind of people for shuttering, reinforcement [ and all ], but the migrant labor, what has come back to U.P. doesn't have that kind of a skill sets. So there is a skill set mismatch is the main issue. But see, government is also providing the data about the labor. Going forward, we'll see maybe after next to 1 or 2 months so we -- the entire labor strength should be back.
Understood. Sir, can I get the EPC cost for this 4 HAM projects that we recently won?
That we'll let you know because now it's in the initial stages. So we'll let you know.
It is around INR 7,000 crores in totality.
Including [indiscernible].
[indiscernible] on the -- what is current [ own ] levels all put together, passenger and commercial put together and in, say, percentage of earlier pre long-term levels.
You can say 90% around. We're getting 90% [ toll cost ] [indiscernible].
[ After labor ].
The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from Phillip Capital.
Sir, 2 questions from my side.. So first question was on the Purvanchal Expressway and the expressway projects in U.P. So are you -- are we receiving payments on time on the Purvanchal Expressway? And how do you see the health of the U.P government in terms of the upcoming Ganaga Expressway project?
Yes. Purvanchal Expressway, we have been receiving payments on time. See, UP making the payments. We didn't have any problem in the receiving the payments even till end of May. Work done for the month of May also, they released 1 of the packages. In case of Ganga Expressway, it compresses 13 bid packages. Now the DPR is in the advanced stage so once DPR is completed and then the government will come out with the qualification or otherwise maybe...
But, sir, do we have any idea [Foreign Language]. are they tying up funds with World Bank or some other agency [Foreign Language]?
[Foreign Language]. We can't say now. So we will see after 3 month [Foreign Language].
Sure, sir. So secondly, you mentioned [Foreign Language] around 80%, right?
[Foreign Language] 80%.
Okay, sir. Fair enough. And then lastly, can I get the stand-alone gross debt number? March [Foreign Language] stand-alone level?
INR 326 crore, sir. Gross debt was INR 326 crore that was minus [Foreign Language] 4-1-8.
The next question is from the line of [ Roshan Chakrabarti ] from DC and DC Advisors.
Sir, first question is with respect to HAM and EPC project guidance earlier in, say, quarter 1 and quarter 2, we had guided that order book would be mostly 50, 50 percentage. But now that we have received 4 important HAM projects and EPC projects share would like reduce considerably. My question with respect to that is, sir, what would your debt to EBIT -- debt-to-equity guidance be for the future? And like would we now specifically bidding for -- be bidding for EPC projects, or we might look for HAM projects as well?
Bidding, we can say now onwards, EPC will be reduced, I think, so we hope it will go 65% to 35% -- 65% HAM and 35% EPC. But preference will be EPC. Our preference will be EPC. So we will try our best to keep our ratio 50-50.
Sure. Sir, the second part of the question was with respect to what our guidance regarding debt-to-equity was? So like currently, our gross debt-to-equity on the consolidated basis is 1.3, something around 1.3x. So are we confident that with all these incoming HAM projects, we won't need to increase the amount of debt that we have on our balance sheet?
No, we will try to keep less than 1.5 in future.
Actually, presently, all the HAM projects are under construction stage. That is why this debt equity is increasing. As soon as they will start in the operation. For example, [ Dausa-Lalsot ] come in the operation, and we will start to get the NOT from August. So similarly, we are also expecting at 2 or 3 projects will be completed in this year HAM project. So certainly, this debt equity will reduce. But during construction, debt equity will increase because we are taking the [ deserved ] debt with no revenue.
So my next question is, firstly, as we have stated earlier that PNC Infratech won't be bidding for any toll projects or, say, OMT projects. But I read somewhere that we had submitted some bids for toll projects. So firstly, is that true that have we submitted bids for toll projects? And if that is true -- so why this change in, say, approach of bidding for toll projects?
We have not submitted any bid in toll project till now.
The next question is from the line of [ Sarita Torad ] from Union Asset Management.
Yes, I have a question. This interest for the FY '20 INR 814 crore (sic) [ INR 114 crore ], I want a break-up for that. So what is the term interest in that? And what is the mobilization advance interest?
So this is this year, a INR 114 crores as against INR 64 crore last year. That is mainly because of the mobilization advance, we have taken in Nagpur-Bombay, strategically, because that rate of interest on that advance are 12%, although, later stage, in January, February, we have reduced. But during the year -- If the major part is interest and mobilization around EPC and the HAM project, it will change around INR 55 crores [ till ] this year.
Okay. So INR 55 crores is the mobilization advance interest you have paid for the FY '20, right?
Yes, EPC and HAM both, yes.
Okay. Okay. Sir, second question is your working capital has substantially reduced. So is it a sustainable number going forward? And as well as on the stand-alone balance sheet also, your noncurrent liabilities basically have gone up for the FY '20 and as well as the current liability has also gone up. So is it because of that mobilization advance you have taken? Is that a reason for that?
up to some extent, yes.
The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.
Can you give us the toll collection breakup?
Yes. For the FY '20 or fourth quarter, sir?
Sir, Q4 and full year.
Okay. MP Highway is INR 10.8 crore in fourth quarter. Kanpur-Ayodhya INR 90 crores. Kanpur Highway, INR 23.4 crores. And Bareilly Almora, INR 9.9 crore and Ghaziabad is INR 49 crores in fourth quarter.
Okay. And Narela?
Narela was INR 9.35 crore.
Okay. And sir, on the appointed date for [ Challakere-Hariyur ], when do we expect that, sir, because of land status, you've told about the other 4 HAM projects. So, what about the projects we have in HAM, what is the land setter and when is AD expected?
See now land is -- except few [ stretches ] so the process is completed because of the COVID and other lockdown situation, the process has halted. So we expect declaration of appointed date by middle of July.
Mid-July, AD. So land is almost 80% there, if I understand correctly?
Yes, yes. Yes.
Sir, [ XCI ] has been done with whom, sir? The rate of interest and the banker?
[Foreign Language] Axis Bank is the lead banker.
Axis Bank. And the rate of interest available?
[Foreign Language] Because the rate will depend at the time of taking of our disbursement because at the time of our disbursement, [Foreign Language]
Got it. [Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language]
50%.
INR 100 crores [indiscernible]...
And sir, bookkeeping question, if I may. What is the retention money outstanding with mobilization advances, you said around INR 694 crores as in March. So what is the retention as of March? And if you can guide on the arbitration breakup, so how much is pending for 4 projects total?
Arbitration figures, we don't have readily, but retention we'll share.
Retention is around INR 110 crore as at [ 30 ], we are approaching our department to take back as per the new guidelines.
The next question is from the line of Alok Deora from Yes Securities.
Just a couple of questions. One was on -- [indiscernible] had mentioned earlier that you would be bidding for some projects other than roads, and you had mentioned about track laying also. So any bids you have put there? Or are you looking at that segment in any way?
See, our focus will continue to be on the road sector only. We don't want to divert into unrelated sectors. But as of now, we don't see there is any major opportunity in track laying. Our focus is continue to be on road sector.
Okay. Okay. And sir, regarding on the HAM project, this monetization, you mentioned that the bank rate has come down drastically. So that would like impact all your HAM projects, which are due to achieve the COD. So can we assume that the monetization won't happen like in the next -- near to medium-term at least?
Actually, as regard to the [Foreign Language] in balance, actually the bank rate has gone down significantly, as borrowing costs had not reduced that much. Because that is why there is a mismatch of the receiving of the annuity versus the rate of interest. So the construction plantation is concerned about a dramatic fall in bank rate, as compared to bidding level to NHI, Ministry and PMO and FR for relief measured to mitigate the [ MBI ]. Hopefully, in 3, 4 months, it should be sort out. Because the bank rate, which has reduced, bank [indiscernible] had not passed on that impact to our interest rate after rate of interest. We have not reduced the MCL to that extent. The discussions are going on.
So it's impact our valuation of SPV. So we will wait for 6 months at least for any divestment.
Yes, actually, on that point, only, so like -- I mean, in next 3 to 6 months, we don't expect that mismatch to correct, right? So the monetization, after 6 months, as we get into the further discussion, and it will take at least 9 to 12 months from here before we see any monetization happening on the HAM projects?
It is not like that because with the investor, they are certain structure are being -- they have offered certain structure. Whereas the bank rate will be completed at the time of COD or at the time of the transferring the equity after 2 years. So discussion are going on with the investor. We are giving the several instructions. Let us see.
The next question is from the line of Priyankar Biswas from Nomura Securities.
Congratulations, sir, for a tremendous result as developing time as well as such a great cash flow performance. So my question is, firstly, like on the execution part, like given whatever manpower you were available and maybe it normalizes, let's say, post monsoon and the equipment that you have, what can be, let's say, a Q4 exit rates that you can achieve in terms of execution, like is something like a INR 1,700 crore to INR 2,000 crore per quarter, let's say, in Q4, would that be a reasonable exit rate if things normalize?
Yes. We can't say anything formally right just now here. It could be something theoretical kind of a thing, saying that we have a potential of executing that much revenue. But given the uncertainty and unpredictability, it could be a bit speculative. So let us see how things will unfold going forward. But we have -- yes, we have what's in hand, we are fully mobilized, but we need to see how the things will unfold.
And sir, secondly, on the working capital front, so what we hear is that for the government projects, they are now often shifting from a milestone-based to, let's say, monthly billing, like more frequent milestones. So that should have a positive impact on the working capital, right, at least on the payment collections. So in that light, can you highlight that what can your expected, let's say, working capital days be like that already done quite well for FY '20, but let's say, going forward, if this is to continue?
we are expecting that working capital days presently 57, it should not more than 55 to 70.0 days at latter stage also.
Okay. So it is not going beyond 65 to 70 days.
It should be 70 -- around 70 days yes. Okay.
So 60 to 70 days is a good assumption for the working capital days for this year?
Yes. Yes, yes.
The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anandrathi.
So 2 questions. Essentially, 1 was -- I just want to understand if we've extended any funding support to any of our operational assets during the year, especially Ghaziabad-Aligarh. Why I ask this is essentially, when I look at our cash flow statement for the consolidated operations to get to see an amount of around INR 170-odd crore as loans given in your [ investing ] activities. And since it is of hearing in your consol cash flow statement, which comes to implying it, I mean, it ideally would have been extended to an associate company plus subsidiaries would have been knocked out in consolidation. So if you could share thoughts on that? And just to follow-up on that, I mean, given the fact that the traffic numbers are yet not back to the normal numbers that you used to do when generally, you get to have ballooning debt repayments. Would you be required to [ then of ] extend any support to the operational assets in this year? And if you could quantify that amount, please?
Actually, there are 2 projects, where we have supported [ Bareilly National Highway ], where we have supported during the year INR 30 crores, but we don't require now from 1 April in this project.. Similarly in the Ghaziabad-Aligarh, we have supported in this year, around INR 52 crores. But now we have -- in this year, we have taken the opted to monetization in this project and the project. And in the financial year, certainly, because the deal of QH canceled a certain amount we have to infuse to this project.
[Foreign Language] I mean, how much are we expecting, assuming we continue at similar kind of run rate 80 odd percent kind of collection efficiency or 90% collection efficiency. How much could that...
It should -- in future we'll not more than INR 25 crores in this year.
[Foreign Language], but I'll take it off-line. And second one, if you could share why is [ Challakere ], are you taking so long? I mean, it's been almost more than 2 years now, we've been -- you have this project in our book and FCV [Foreign Language] almost last year. So FCBI spent quite a lot of time on this. Why is this kind of delay there in this project?
Yes. Going by the experience at other projects, and I say doesn't want to declare appointed date until unless this minimum 80% land is free from all encumbrances, including utilities, recutting and all. So NHAs want experienced once if appointed date is declared prematurely, the progress getting interrupted during the [ deposition ]. So that's what they experienced at other projects, even we also experienced. So NHA wanted to ensure a 80% plan completely free from encumbrances, encroachments and then a complete vacant condition. That's why it is slightly getting delayed. And there was also a change of government in Karnataka happened, and there was a political uncertainty in between. So the changes in the administration and down so led to the delay. So we expect -- so things will now will get normalized. And by middle of July, we expect appointed date.
And how much is the land available, sir, free of all encumbrances or with NHA as of now?
It's around 80%.
And, sir, just 1 last from my side. On this bank rate issue. So how is the ministry looking at this thing now? Because I am sure, I mean, the federation would have already approached the ministry. I mean citing this issue with the projects wherein either you won't be able to monetize at least in the immediate future? And even for the new projects, I mean, bankers could be somewhat not keen to win a fund because they get to [lag behind] in the projects are not generating the kind of return that these were supposed to because there's this widening spread. So how is NHA for that Ministry looking at this issue? I mean, are they working on something, I mean, which is where you would get to have model turn somewhat better than that and you don't get to have these kind of issues in the future?
Ministry of Road Transport has already taken cognizance of this issue. They are aware that there is a disparity between the bank rate and the MCLRS. The MCLRs are not getting proportionately reduced reference to bank rates. But let us see what the action will be because it's a domain of finance ministry. We are waiting for their, this thing -- reaction on that. So we'll come to know maybe after 1, 1.5 months, the things will become clear.
The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.
Yes, sir, just on Aligarh Ghaziabad, the last time, it took almost a year for us to come to a conclusion where we got NOCs. Now, with the new investor, which you are trying to finalize. So how quickly we can move on the deal and what could be time lines on NOC now because NOC is already in place. So it will just require a change of name? Or -- so -- and how much time -- at what stage the deal is at? Like valuation has been frozen, DD has been done?
I think, it will take…
2 months.
5 month around.
So we came for say, 2 months or 2 months for or closure or 3 months...
It is already started. And we hope it will -- deal will be completed within 5 months.
Actually, now there will not be any problem for fulfill the condition precedent because almost 95%, we have already completed. So that question is only of the dues business, they will take their time 2, 3 months. And we are expecting that by September-October...
Okay. Okay. Just on this quarter. So now sir, you said we are already at 80% of execution. So we have been averaging around INR 1,200 crores of run rate per quarter. So this quarter, we should be somewhere around like 50%, 60% of average? Or -- so I'm not asking any guidance for the full year, but I'm saying, particularly this quarter because you will have a handle on the number that you're already approaching June end. So we should be able to surpass 60%, 70% of the average quarterly run rate for this quarter?
Yes. This will be more than 50%.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Rita Tahilramani from Invesco.
Sir, I just have one question. Could you help us understand the specifics of the 4 projects in terms of [ 3x ] land acquisition for the 4 pending HAM projects, 3H.
Yes, 3H is in progress. What has happened, the money has been disbursed into the Kala Account. Now only -- because of this COVID situation and the consequent lockdowns, the disbursement of money into the landowner's accounts is slightly hampered. Now it has again been resumed. So we expect -- these -- all these 4HAM projects, 3H to the extent of 80% till next 1 or 2 months.
The next question is from the line of Parvez Akhtar from Edelweiss.
Yes, so just from my side, we were supposed to get some bonus, I guess, for the Aligarh-Moradabad probably this quarter. So do these quarters number include that bonus?
Doesn't include.
We are expecting this bonus in the second half of this year.
[indiscernible] FY '21 and '22?
Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Akhtar, your audio is breaking. It's not clear. Please repeat your question.
What is the tax rate for FY '21 and '22 that we expect?
Tax rate in this year, we are expecting 30% to 33% in FY '21. And from FY '22, it will be normal, which is around 35%.
The next question is from the line of Amber Singhania from AMSEC.
Just 2 clarification I wanted. So one, the bonus on Aligarh-Moradabad, what would be the quantum of that, which we will be receiving in second half and secondly, sir, when you mentioned tax rate at 32%, 33% this year and 35% next year. So aren't we moving to the new tax regime of 25% and if not so, why?
If we can bear having [indiscernible] match credit balance. As of March 20, we are having the balance to INR 112 crore. So we will hope that it came only after consuming it.
Okay. And what is the bonus expected from Aligarh-Moradabad?
Yes. Around 14 -- it is around INR 14 crores.
INR 14 crores. And sir, just last thing, if I may ask, sir, on the monetization front, as you mentioned about the Ghaziabad-Aligarh. But what about the other HAM projects in all, which we wanted to monetize? Is there anything concrete on those subjects also on the card and by when we can see the second round of monetization coming by?
No, discussion is going on, but we cannot expect in first half.
We were discussing with 2, 3 prospective investors because of the substantial reduction in the bank rate, it is 4.25%.
So it will be delivered.
We have been currently under hold position. We are expecting that within 2, 3 months, it will be given start to discuss [indiscernible] .
Okay. But [Foreign Language] other than Aligarh Ghaziabad [Foreign Language].
No, I don't expect -- we don't expect.
The next question is from the line of Mayank Goel from SBI.
Sorry if my questions were answered, I got dropped off from the call. Sir, my questions are regarding the release measures with which NHI and Ministry have given for these COVID times. So 2 questions. First, sir, [Foreign Language] extension, minimum 3 and 6 months. Is it just for the projects under construction? Or this minimum and maximum extension also applies to the operational beauty projects. [Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language] we will get?
Yes. Yes.
Okay. And sir, secondly, though these relief measures look good. But are these just on paper, [Foreign Language], when you talk to NHI, the replies from them are actually positive, and you get a hint that these extensions would definitely be provided?
[Foreign Language] in future [Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language]
So it is still better. And sir, last thing, they say, the extension will be provided till the time your daily toll collection reach 90% of the average daily fee. So [Foreign Language] you don't get 90% collection until 3, 4 months, so extension [Foreign Language] Maximum 6-month ceiling will hit here?
As of now, maximum 6 months ceiling [Foreign Language], but discussions are going on with NHA. So the clarity will emerge only after a few months.
The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Sir, continuing to that relief measure from milestone to monthly payments. Seeing any of our projects, have we receive because I think it has started from the May -- have we received any payment of milestone versus a monthly?
In case of Chitradurga-Davanagere, we had already submitted payment based on the monthly basis in the HAM project. And other projects also now, we'll be submitting our invoices shortly.
Okay, okay. And secondly, sir, I just wanted to understand this INR 14 crore early completion bonus on Aligarh-Moradabad, but last time, we were expecting by March, and now we are saying in second half. So just wanted to understand why so much delay?
See, it's a normally NHA, the approval process takes time. The even later cases also to happen. And they -- the process also got hampered due to COVID and lockdowns. So we expect in the second half of this year.
Thank the next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.
Sir, I just wanted to understand what is the mobilizing advance you've received in Q4? And how much you're expecting now in FY '21? And the breakup of the interest cost of Q4.
Q4 mobilization advance is 14 -- INR 14 crores.
INR 14 crores. That's it.
Yes.
Interest on mobilization advance in the fourth quarter is INR 14 crores, sir.
That is interest. But how much mobilization received in Q4?
[Foreign Language]
Okay. Okay. And sir, on the execution part. So now obviously, we have seen the lockdown effect. So what is the run rate as on date? Like how much daily execution we are doing it? And what is the fixed cost per month for us, sir?
All the projects are going around efficiency of between 70% to 75%.
So can you highlight the fixed cost per month, sir?
There is no significant reduction in the fixed cost. Because see, we are maintaining our inventory, we are maintaining our men and materials and also machinery. There is no significant reduction in the fixed cost, though run rate is around 75%. But the run rate will certainly improve going forward. And the gap between fixed cost and run rate would decrease.
So what is the number, if you can highlight a number in terms of absolute number?
[indiscernible] we don't have the numbers readily available. We'll share with you offline.
The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] Chakrabarti from DC and DC Advisors.
Yes, once again. Sir, initially, [Foreign Language] Cash generation in FY '20 would be 1,700 crore INR. So sir, if you could just give me a breakup of that INR 1,700 crores into how much would be from asset monetization? And how much would be from, say, operation. Like this year, we did INR 525 crores from operations. So if you could just give me that breakup, expected ballpark breakup.
Actually, 7,100 crore INR, we have told that this is a own generation of next 3 years.
This next 3 years?
Our internal goals. We have not considered any payment or monetization of bonus, we have not considered this.
Sure, for the next 3 years.
The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.
I want to just continue on my last question. So this year at best will be a muted year in terms of revenue. I'm not asking for any guidance, but [Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language] very early to say anything. [Foreign Language]. It is very difficult to say now.
Okay.
[Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language]
Yes. We are always cautious and conservative.
[Foreign Language] is there any other besides our own direct associative subsidiaries. Is there any related party loans given, which is figuring out there? [Foreign Language].
No, we have not given any loan.
No loan.
[Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language].
[Foreign Language]
There is no relation between.
And no funding support also from the [indiscernible] no guarantees, no funding support, even no guarantees, right? The no funding. No, no guarantee, no undertaking, no comfort from PMT.
The next question is from the line of [ Sachit Kaman ] from Anandrathi.
Sir, actually, my question was pertaining to max credit. D.K. sir has said we around INR 112 crores of max credit available to us on a books right now as of year-end. But then, sir, I am pretty sure, I think for a calculation this will be used up by FY '21 itself. So while going by that account, shouldn't be transfer to the new tax regime, that is 25.17% in FY '2022. So that was my first question.
We are expecting that this INR 112 crores we'll consume in FY '21, and we will opt the new scheme from FY '22.
Okay. So basically, in FY 2022, we'll be around 25.17% tax rate, like we -- so basically, U.S. services before a 35% [Foreign Language]. So 25.17%, right?
Right. Okay. Sure. Sir, my second question pertains to [Foreign Language].. Are you looking at orders on this segment, sir?
[Foreign Language] we will go for that.
Okay. So if I'm to look at to say that you -- that PNC, apart from lots of 1 segment, you'll be actually looking at in the metro right now that would be fair to assume, like and track laying?
Yes. Cannot say track laying only. We can go in railway, metro, water supply also.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ashu Shah for closing comments.
We thank you all the participants for participating in this call. And thank you to the management of PNC for giving us this opportunity to host the call. Sir, any closing remarks from you?
Yes. Thank you, everyone, for your participation in our earning call. And we have uploaded the presentation of our company's website. In case of further queries, you may get in touch with these strategic growth advisors. Our Investor Relations advisors or feel free to get in touch with us IR. All of you, stay safe and make others safe. Thank you very much for participation.
Yes, thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of Centrum Broking Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.
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