Sammaan Capital Limited (SAMMAANCAP) Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Sammaan Capital Limited Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call hosted by MUFG Intime. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aryan Sumra from MUFG Intime. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone. I welcome you all to the Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call for Sammaan Capital Limited. To discuss company's quarterly performance, we have with us her excellency, Dalia Khorshid, CEO, Avalora Holdings; and Mr. Gagan Banga, MD and CEO; along with other senior members of the management team. Before we proceed with the call, I would like to mention that some of the statements within today's call may be forward-looking and may involve risks and uncertainties. For more details, kindly refer to the investor presentation and other filings that can be found on the company's website. With that said, I would like to hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you.

Good day, everyone, and welcome to the Quarter 1 Fiscal '27 Earnings Call. This is the first quarter under the ownership of IFC that the company has executed on. The assets under management in line with our guidance have increased to INR 56,239 crores. We've done disbursements of approximately INR 3,900 crores. The capital adequacy is comfortable at 20.1%. Profits after tax, last quarter, we had done all the required adjustments, provisions, markdowns, et cetera. From this quarter onwards, we start compounding journey, which should hopefully run across many, many years, so as the first building block of that, the quarter 1 profit after tax is INR 243 crores. We had spoken about the fact that recoveries would continue to be an important earning support, so we had gross recoveries of INR 424 crores. Net recoveries net of the provisions for the quarter of INR 240 crores. And in normal course of business, the net NPA is now standard 0.15%. The management has been focusing on [Foreign Language]

Sorry, ma'am, your line is unclear. May I request you to mute your line from your side please? Yes, may we request you to mute your line from your side, please.

Yes, I'm just trying to say hello to everyone.

Hello, her excellency, Dalia. Thank you for joining. I just started with the commentary and we will soon have...

Hello, everyone. Thank you very much. Thank you, Gagan. Thank you, everyone. I'm online. Thanks, everyone.

So as I was saying, the management has been focused on four pillars. The most important pillar from a long-term perspective for effective execution is to have a very robust liability franchise, for which credit ratings are the most important ingredient. The company saw domestic ratings upgrades from AA to AA+, international rating upgrades from B+ to BB- and through the course of the second half of this year and financial year '28, we are fairly confident that we will move towards domestic AAA credit ratings and internationally, BB+ type of rating. Based on the support provided by IFC as a promoter as well as the strength of the balance sheet with the capital and the higher credit rating, the cost of funds are in the process of declining. We started at 10.5%, through the quarter, we have reached 10%, and we are hopeful -- which is stock cost of funds, and we are hopeful of going to 9.3% by the end of this year. By September, we are optimistic to get to 9.6%. The incremental cost of fund is now down to about 9%. And we hope to make that further decline to by the end of the year to 8.5%. And as the ratings continue to move up and eventually stabilize, we hope to hit the 7% range, 7%, 7.5%, 8% range over the course of the next 2 to 3 years. Disbursals for the first half are planned at INR 10,000 crores. First quarter was bang on target, and that will increase to INR 20,000 crores in the second half. We've started widening the product segments that we operate in. We have been a monoline product company for many, many years. We've already started personal loans and loans against securities, we've also been working on building our credit platform with credit funds. So on the NBFC, we've done the first transaction of that site. I will talk about it in detail. And then we've also started buying portfolios to be able to do testing, which will help us then start executing directly on many other product segments. In the second half of this year, with the app going live, the digital personal loans product will be live, with the branch expansion happening, we would also be in a position to start implementing our micro LAP loan strategy and the rural home loan strategy. We would be building on the branch network to enable other products, which require a very robust physical presence on the ground, such as gold loans to start implementing that strategy by financial year '28. The branch network at the end of the first half would be approximately 240 branches, which will increase to 270 branches. More importantly, we already cover 20 states with 23 master service centers. So with the core already in play, large coverage across the country already in play. Now these master service centers have to compound the number of spokes that they have, which is a relatively easier task versus initiating a presence in certain states. Manpower is increasing every day. New offers are being given. We started that process in April, May. So by August, September, that would start touching a fairly robust number. In the meantime, not only are we focusing on increasing our feet on street and mid-management with the product segments increasing, we are also focused on the complexity management, which comes with many products, and the assurance functions which need to be beefed up for effective risk and compliance management. So senior management personnel have been hired, mid-level hiring is happening, and the large number hiring is happening on feet on street for both sales, collections and credit processes. The third important area for the company is the entire tech landscape that we are covering, which largely focuses on building a digital-first strategy. The goal is to be able to service all of our individual and MSME customers via the app, irrespective of whether they do a complete journey, which can be done for a home loan very easily, versus using bits and parts of the journey through the app. But what our endeavor will be that every product should be end-to-end deliverable on the app itself, and that's what we are focusing on. It should go live in the second half of this year. It would need to integrate a new CRM platform, which is being implemented by our sales force and a new loan management system as well as we need to manage the humungous amount of data. So creating the necessary data lake and the data processing capabilities. All of that work is going on. In order to be able to tie seamless service, seamless credit decisions, artificial intelligence is very important. And it is also very important for robust risk management. There are 53 use cases, which are currently under implementation, of which about 60% of those would be implemented within the financial year itself. Next half would be more about focusing on making the app more effective via customer service and then extending it to our DSA. All in all, we are looking at our digital first and our AI adoption to help us do more cross-sell to make sure that the loan life cycle management is done more effectively at a lower cost and overall, make sure that risk decision -- risk management practices are institutionalized. The fourth and the pillar which provide ensures that the profits that I spoke about and said that this is the first input into a multi-decade compounding journey. That entire compounding for it to be sustainable and continuous is based on governance. We were happy to welcome -- we are happy to welcome two IHC nominees Mr. Crasta, who is the group CFO; and her excellency, Dalia, who has also been kind enough to spare time to be on this call. They are both on the Board. The subject matter experts within the IHC Group are also on our various board committees. And then there is a peer-to-peer exchange of information and guardrails being done across risk, tech, HR, marketing, finance, and all of those functions to continue to improve the assurance function. The process of identifying a statutory auditor next year, all of you are aware that the cycle of auditors would change, so the process of identifying one of the big audit firms amongst the big five audit firms is well initiated and we hope to close that process proactively fairly quickly. And similarly, in parallel, we are running with a process of finding a co-sourcing partner for strengthening our internal audit function, again, amongst the top 5 audit firms in the country. That process, we should be concluding within this quarter itself. There is a lot of focus on assurance, both the Board members and the management is well aware of the benefit of sustainability that comes via appropriate assurance, and we are all working towards enabling the same. Now I'll elaborate on each of the four pillars that I spoke about. Starting with the liability franchise. As I said, that in our opinion is the most important pillar. What we are focusing on in the near term is rating upgrades and ensuring a decline in cost of funds. What we have achieved is one set of credit rating upgrades. What we are working on is by demonstrating our balance sheet strength, our enhanced operating scale, and ability to manage complexity and supported by comfort from the IHC Group, so journey towards AAA, and I hope it's a short journey. In order to get the right type of message to the market, we've already completed a $63 million buyback of our dollar bonds. Our dollar bonds are now trading at a premium to other comparable rated peers. And I hope all of this put together will urge the rating agencies to support us by giving the necessary upgrades. Numbers, and this is probably the most important achievement of the quarter. At the time that we -- that IHC expressed its interest in becoming our promoter, the cost of funds were about 90 basis points higher to where they've landed up index in a year of the transaction. First, being announced then receiving regulatory approvals and then getting funded. And that should, by the time we end this year, should have declined to 9.3%. And as I mentioned earlier, there would be an annual decline of about 40 to 90 basis points. And hopefully, we will get to below 8% over the course of the next 3 years. For the quarter, the most important piece was we were able to negotiate with our lenders to reprice our existing borrowings, which affects the overall stock of borrowing as well as on incremental borrowings get much lower spreads over the benchmark. We've seen a return of the private and foreign banks, which had over the last few years not being supporting the company. They have been doing large underwritings for the company and large balance sheet exposures through quarter 1. We've already become the third largest issuers amongst our AA+ peers. And hopefully, we should come to the top of that list by the end of this year itself. From a third-party point of view, which I don't need to view, all of you can look at the screen or various disclosures and come to the same conclusion yourself. The secondary yields have re-rated both for domestic and international bonds, which then by themselves, imply a lower incremental borrowing cost. And the borrowing base -- borrower base is now going beyond just domestic banks to include foreign bank within domestic banks, private banks have come back and domestic institutions have come back to participate in our bond borrowing program. All in all, this is a unique tailwind that we have, interest rates are flattish to slightly going up for most of our peers, while on absolute value, we are still much higher -- paying much higher rates, but on a relative percentage basis, our cost of funds are declining, which is a unique tailwind that we have, which will help us support our earnings trajectory over the next few quarters. Assets and the growth of assets is something which is obviously the most important eligible from a stakeholder perspective. while liabilities are a key input to that, but to have a well-diversified sustainable asset strategy, which operates within relevant guard rails, and yet produces sustainable return on assets and net interest margins is something that determines whether NBFC is successful amount. To that end, we have disbursed approximately around INR 3,900 crores in quarter 1 across five different products to approximately 12,000 new customers. All of these disbursements are happening within defined risk guardrails. So we have moved on from simply doing portfolio management, which we had been doing for the past many years, to finally getting on to driving growth, adding new products, new customers, truly benefiting from the flexibility of being able to pursue any and every asset class, which are licensed as an NBFC ICC provides to us. We are not restricted or tied down to being just a mortgage lender, so we move on from portfolio management to growth. This is the first quarter to do that, and I'm very glad with what we've been able to achieve. We are looking at this year, the first year of IHC promoter as a year to stabilize, put together the building blocks for sustainable growth by just demand capital. And then we will start exploring various options which will determine whether we build or buy, so inorganic growth will be on the table from next financial year. Product expansion is something which is right up there. That's the strategy, how do we get from 5 to 10 to 15 products. The best-in-class NBFC has as much as 20 products, so that's clearly a path that they are showing to us, which is sustainable, and we would like to pursue that. We are anchoring our expansion, this financial year in mortgages, that something that we know we've been doing. But in terms of both testing and scaling up products, we would look at digital personal loans as an important asset class. And similarly, in the years to come both micro LAP loans and rural home loans will become part of our mainstay in terms of would be constituting -- would be amongst the assets which would be contributing about 2/3 to 3/4 of the disbursement. By fiscal '28, the network would also be ready to be able to physically deliver gold loans, digitally deliver two-wheeler loans and also integrate with various e-commerce marketplaces to be able to do buy now, pay later type of facilities. So that is something that by end of next year should be fully functional. And then cost selling to our rural borrowers would begin between fiscal '29 and '30. So all of these are areas which are work in progress, either digitally or physically or both. And month-on-month, we will continue to add to the product suite. The digital first or the app first product is what is driving the overall strategy. We are working to ensure that each and every product of ours focused on the retail and MSME product is -- goes live on the app, and digital fulfillment is something that we will want to make sure is done for every customer. The products that we cater to today, which is home loans and LAP, we are already live on the app, but we have to make sure that every other product is also live on the app as we formally launched the product. That said, it is a phased growth. This year is a year of investments in physical infrastructure, in people and in determining the guard rails within which we want to operate, so -- and the understanding within the management team is that we have to balance growth with yield and risk while staying in the near-term mortgage focus, but spending a lot of our bandwidth and making sure that a large amount of our disbursals in due course of time is also coming from non-mortgage opportunities. In this, a very unique strength that we have is the fact that we are already physically present in 20 states of the country, covering practically 100% of the lendable or scaled lendable opportunity within the country. We have 23 master service centers, which are reasonable sized offices with credit resources working around and understand risk and credit both and have seen cycles. And both the personnel as well as the branch would act as the hub to make sure that the spoke that we create for a single product or multiproduct is effective very quickly and is able to scale up very quickly. It is a digital model, both for the customer as well as for our internal journey of approving the credit, and one is very confident to be able to deliver and get to an 800 type branch network by end of next year. People are obviously very important. As I spoke briefly earlier, there is an investment around increasing the capacity and the capability of the senior management personnel. So a lot of investment of time and resources is going on in that. It's not a very quick process to end, especially at the S&P level and you will start getting stock exchange information from us towards the end of the quarter going into next quarter. The mid-level and the ground level hiring is going on. It takes about -- between offer to joining, it takes about 90 to 120 days. We are about 60 to 90 days in that process, so over the course of the next 2 months, we would also visibly start seeing a big change in the number of people that we are. August being the first month, we are almost half day through August, and I'm extremely happy to see the joinings, which are happening on a daily basis. The third for future competitiveness. So we spoke about sustained competitiveness coming from the liability franchise, growth being delivered from a focus on assets and widening of assets, deepening of assets. Sustained competitiveness would certainly come from our smooth evolution of the digital footprint as well as AI adoption, and focusing that our growth is all data-driven. To that end, a variety of initiatives to set up the foundation of any type of a digital platform, starting from a CRM platform to just processing capability or storage capability is going on. We are also investing in data sciences and getting the right people, the smart people who understand this and have done this at scale in e-commerce companies as well as fintech companies to be supporting us. And the process of integrating with market participants has also started. There is a large buy opportunity in this. At this time, the bias is towards built such that we can effectively also have the evaluation skillsets if in fiscal '28, there is a buy opportunity to present itself. AI is a critical area of focus as well as success valuation, to which end, I believe that about 66% of the use cases identified right now are put in motion. Risk management since we are looking at sustained but fairly high growth is the most important, and therefore, half of the initiatives are just around risk come today. Again, the assurance function and the -- is the fourth leg that I spoke about, to which not only is tech playing a key role, but integration with our promoter group is also happening. They have stepped into the Board, the Board would continue to evolve in the months to come. But there is a functional oversight and a function-to-function integration, which is happening across finance, information technology and artificial intelligence, risk, human resources, data sciences and marketing. There is a financial consolidation, which is also happening for the past 4 months, and every day, we are learning about the unique strengths of our promoter, and we feel that this is providing a very good base for us to continue to for progress. This quarter, we disbursed almost INR 3,900 crores, about INR 664 crores was disbursed for home loans, about INR 2,000 crores the loans against property. We did one deal with a large Asia-based credit fund in which we took 20% and they took 80% of this INR 840 crores, and we will continue to make management fees on their portion also. So that's something which has been put into motion, and I'm very glad that it has happened quickly. We started doing unsecured lending, both internally as well as portfolio buyouts, small numbers, but approximately INR 100 crores. And the loans against securities product, which is a product targeted to higher net worth individuals continues to roll, works between listed and unlisted securities, is, again, small at INR 262 crores, but these are important initiatives, which will allow us to understand these product categories and in due course of time, these would become all multi-thousand core products on a stand-alone basis. But we will do it steadily within the guardrails and within the operating number targets that we have set for ourselves. 97% of the disbursements were around secured loans and 97% of the AUM is also secured. So for many years to come, that would continue to the mode of the company that our balance sheet is largely backed by secured assets. All in all, I would say that it has been a very refined quarter. We have had many wins, that said, we are a AA+ company. We fully understand that there are 14 AAA companies that we are competing with in due course of time. There are about five or six other AA+ companies which are relevant. We are in the pack of 20, but we are fairly confident that there is enough headroom out there for us to be able to navigate our sales to the top. Often, it is very important to understand what your current position is and where you can go. We used to be the eighth largest. Currently, we are the 15th largest, fairly confident that we will be in the top 5 in the next few years. Capital has come, which reduces the distraction of the management team. We are uniquely placed with earning power of approximately INR 53,000 crores of assets, but we are a young company, a new company, which is starting to disburse with a starting number of INR 4,000 crores, in approximately INR 4,000 crores in the first quarter of disbursals. No startup can do that. We probably disbursed as much as many NBFCs have as assets under management. And this growth and earning power is backed by two very important tailwinds that we have, both of which have come through and will continue to come through in every quarter, and I will continue to talk about it in a very underlying sort of manner. One is reducing cost of funds, which is being witnessed. It is also being witnessed on the P&L. And the other is recoveries. So when we had done the balance sheet adjustments of last quarter, there was a lot of skepticism. And this quarter, I hope that this skepticism is put to end. We have returned a quarter of healthy recoveries. We will continue with that trend. I'm almost in the middle of quarter 2, and I can confirm to you that disbursals are bang on to achieve the INR 10,000 crores of disbursals in quarter -- in the first half. Recoveries, we will exceed the projections that we have made internally, for the profit projections that we have made to all of you. This, I can say with 100% of confidence. Why I can say this for both disbursements and recoveries is because we have a trusted team. We have people who've been with us for a long time. We understand that talent needs to be continuously added, times keep moving, whether it is assets or liabilities or tech or risk, everything is evolving on a daily basis. And to that end, we are happy to add talent. We are welcoming people into the company. We will soon start welcoming people into the senior management team, and I'm very glad that we will be having this addition of talent. The branch network is again something that is not a mystery for us to solve as to how do we go find the right branch or create the necessary infrastructure. We have people on the ground in 20 states who, for them, who are already operating in approximately cities per state. Now for them to make that 20 cities per state is relatively easy and 20 becoming 30 is even more easier. So this branch network and the hub and spoke that we already have is a key strength for us. The tech stack and that we don't have some sort of a legacy tech stack, there are several legacy issues, which are relatively easier to solve, but ask any practitioner who runs a business at scale, a legacy tech stack is amongst the most difficult problems to solve. We are not burdened with that, and we are continuing to work on not only refreshing our tech stack, but building a completely new tech stack, because we are not doing a lot of things like you did not have digital loans and so on. The other unique power that we have is of security receipts. So we did a large sale to ARCs last quarter. We've been doing large sales to ARC since financial year '23. Of what we sold in financial year '23 today, we've already recovered 99% of what we sold in financial year '24, we've recovered 95%. We've come to realize that this is the most effective resolution mechanism, and this would continue to contribute to not only reduce the opening security receipt stock, but also enhance our recovery process. So this is, again, an initiative that we took, we outsourced a large part of our recovery process and that is continuing to work well. We will continue over the quarters to come to use this. Fortunately, we already have the buffers in place. We've already marked down assets and so on. So don't worry, there is no P&L pain which is going to come. But all I'm saying is that the success in resolution, 99%, 95% in a couple of years, for the last 4 years, if I have to look at, we've already collected 61%, whereas the industry has done about 40%. So it will be a tool that we will effectively use to reduce our burden as management, yet get the monies back for us. The disbursement is something which is of high priority. Rating trajectory is something which is being supported by how we are disbursing, how the balance sheet is and the comfort that I feel by active participation, with the management actively participating in meetings with rating agencies and other stakeholders is supporting the company. So I'm thankful to IHC for that. And all in all, I think the opportunity is huge. The opportunity is sustainable, and we are fully focused on the opportunity. Someone very knowledgeable told me that if you have been a good general in war time. Now the test is, will you be a good general in peace time, that surely is a challenge for me, and I'm all up for the challenge with my team. Thank you, and we are now ready for questions.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Raghav Garg from Ambit Capital.

I have my first question, I see that in targeting defining by the second half I think 2, 3 years out here, you continue targeting 7.5% to 8% cost of funds. [indiscernible] the lower funding cost, are you looking to be more right comparative from a customer acquisition point of view or will you retain the higher spreads? I'm just trying to understand how are you thinking about your scalability going forward, whether you want to -- where you want to play on the price and then acquire customers? Or how do you see it? That's my first question.

Sure, Raghav. Thanks for the question. Our strategy will ride on two strengths. One is reduced cost of funds, and the other is the asset-light model that we have. So just if you look at the last year, we had sold -- originated and sold down approximately INR 7,000 crores of loans. So that's a huge strength that we have. And we will continue to ride on that as well as the balance sheet borrowings reduce, we will -- borrowing costs reduce, we will do that. On the asset side, the strategy and how these two, so to say, borrowing inputs play out is that the universe of assets will start as low as 8.5% will go as high as 20-odd percent, so we will straddle the whole universe. Very clearly, anything which is below 9.5% would be originated, but originated to be ultimately sold down in a direct assignment model. And above 9.5%, we can slice and dice to see what we need to keep on our balance sheet and what we need to securitize. On a sustainable basis, at least, if not more, 30% of what we originate, we will securitize. At least 60% to 70% of what we originate, we will keep as a backup that we can securitize it if we deem fit. And it's not only that prime time assets of 8.5%, 9.5% get securitized. Loan against property assets of 11% to 12% also do affordable loans of 12% to 13% also do. So we will maintain a healthy mix of what we are securitizing, which is about 30%, what we can potentially securitize, which is another 30%. And via using our asset-light strategy, which will give us more origination and management fee for the low-yielding products and balance sheet spread for the slightly higher yielding products. We hope that we will have a unique model where we are not just a prime NBFC lender or a lender which is doing rural and micro products because we are pursuing a certain spread and a certain risk. We hope that with the people and the tech capacity that we have. This is a complex exercise, but we should have the capacity of being able to manage it.

Next question is from Lana Bhaman from Barclays Group.

Given the expansion plans, how much upfront OpEx is this required? And do we expect the cost to income to worsen before operating leverage kicks in? What will be the target cost to income at scale for the company going forward?

So we have fairly ambitious expansion plan. OpEx as a percentage of -- sorry, an absolute value will continue to increase. To offset that increase we are looking at continuing to increase the fee income of the company, maybe with a lag of a quarter or two, but not more. Fee income, which comes from these CRE type of assets in which we have a small participation, but we get big fee via a large amount of money being managed by someone else, which we have -- sorry, being held on someone else's balance sheet, which we have originated. That gives us a big fee income. I would think that by October or so, our direct assignment program because there is a lag of 6 months would also kick in and that would give us a reasonable fee buffer. And as the number of customers that numbers expand, we will continue to see that additional income. I would imagine that this year, we would be in the 50% type of cost-to-income range. And from second half of next year, that will start declining. Hopefully, by fiscal '29, we will come to a 30% to 35% range.

The next question is from the line of Abhiram Iyer from Deutsche Bank.

Congrats on going from strength to strength with the businesses. I just had one question on the roughly $3 billion that's targeted over the next 12 months. Do you see the breakup of these disbursals in a similar line to what we saw for the first quarter? Or what's your targeted breakup of the disbursal between the different asset prices that you have? .

So it will not be the same. This year, about 75% of disbursal would still be mortgaged back, 25% would be the new products, personal loans and other retail products and the capital markets products that we will have. Of the 75%, 2/3 will be purely retail, 1/3 will be the wholesale AUM that we will create, of which we will keep about 20% on our balance sheet, so it would still be largely secured this year, about 90% secured, 10% unsecured. And by next year, it will become 80% secured, 20% unsecured. I would like that as we go forward from the current four, five boxes that we have defining our disbursals, that's one, two, three, four, five, this should, by the end of the year increase to at least eight boxes explaining our disbursals and by the end of next year, expand to at least 15 boxes even with small, small numbers explaining at disbursals.

The next question is from the line of Ankita Agarwal from Bajaj Alternate.

Just one question. How active is IT and like strategy, liability management, risk management or underwriting processes? And will you be able to quantify any tangible benefits already realized from IT's involvement, be in terms of business sourcing technology partnership products?

I will start with that. And her excellency if you believe you will have anything to add, please do. But I'll just spend a minute to respond to that. So I see the support, if you ask me in terms of tangible benefits, we were AA-rated. If we would have received amount of capital, so if you guys may have noticed between calendar '24 and calendar -- early calendar '25, we raised about the same amount of money that has come in in rupees. We raised about INR 5,500 crores then and INR 5,600 crores has come in. The balance will come, about INR 3,200 crores will come over the next 1.5 years. Nothing happened. And here, by IHC coming in from a week to the first quarter, every rating that the company has moved up 1 to 2 notches, which is already saving the company 90 basis points on a borrowing program, which is roughly INR 50,000 crores. So we are already saving on an annualized basis, about INR 450 crores, right? So that -- there can't be more tangible benefit with another 70 basis points, nothing else is moving to happen between now and the rest of the year. So 160 basis points on INR 60,000 crores of borrowing by the end of the year. We are saving annually INR 1,000 crores, that's $120 million, $130 million of annualized savings, which has already come in and is getting played out on a daily basis. The other very big benefit is the peer-to-peer integration, which is happening across functions. So the kind of values that we have been able to get for the software deals that we are now ordering is roughly 30% to 50% of the costs that were coming to us earlier without the IHC Group because it is the IHC Group which is talking to the vendor versus us as a stand-alone company talking to the vendor. So this is some of the very tangible benefits that I can say. The intangible benefit is this business is about people. The quality of people that I'm being able to attract today at the very top, and you will see six to seven very interesting additions happening in the senior management team over the course of the next 3 to 4 months. Those guys would not have joined us as we build Sammaan Capital professionally managed company. I mentioned in my remarks about being a peace time general or a war time general. The war would have continued had we not been an IHC Group company. A lot of our adversaries have backed off because they know that we now have a very strong promoter who is supporting us backing us and will back us to the end. What is IHC? IHC has resources. It has the entire reach. It has all the capabilities that are required to build a big business, and we are benefiting from all of this. So very desirable, quantifiable, tangible and much larger intangible benefits, which are coming through in the first 90 to 120 days itself.

Next question is from an Sanket from Dan Capital Advisors.

Yes, pretty clear on the guidances that have driven. My question was to [indiscernible]

Sorry to interrupt, Sanket, your voice is breaking a little bit. Can you come in a better reception area, please?

Is this better? Yes. So just wanted to check with them. Just wanted to know that beyond lending, what is the India Dream here. Do we want to start other lines of businesses within say, financial ecosystem, maybe, say, 2, 3, 4 years ends. So apart from just the lending, if we see your IMM, pretty lists are with great achievements, also on the investment, so I just wanted to know what's the larger dream for IHB when it comes to Indian financial position?

Yes. Unfortunately, you dropped off. I will park this question as soon as we know that she's come back in, we'll take this question and reprioritize the line. In case she is unable to join for any technical reason, I will answer that. Can we just, for the moment, park this and move to the next question and knowing fully well that we have to still answer it.

Next question is from the line of Maria from Capgrow Capital.