Savills plc (SVS) Earnings Call Transcript

Okay. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Margaret Street, and thank you for joining us this morning despite the hot central line for some people. My name is Simon Shaw, CEO; and I'm joined by Nick Sanderson, our Group Chief Financial Officer. And today, I'm actually delighted to be reporting on a very strong first half for Savills, and also to really recognize the fact that we're at an inflection point, a genuine inflection point for this business, having completed the Eastdil Secured Savills transaction 2 weeks ago. So we'll probably spend a bit of time on both of those today. Let's change the slides. The format for today is pretty standard. I'll take you through the highlights of our performance during the first half. Nick will take you through the financial details. And I also want to spend a little time looking at the context for our performance, which you'll see in a moment, which is very important. I'll then remind you of the strategy which we talked about back in about March and together with some of the steps we've taken both in business development stand-alone Savills, but also with Eastdil Secured Savills. And then we'll try and do a bit of crystal ball gazing for 2026 as a whole. So let's crack on. This is a very strong set of results in conditions that were far from easy in many of the markets in which we operate. So I'm particularly delighted with them. You can see from the charts on the right of this slide that all the major metrics are moving in the right direction, and this is essentially driven by three factors. First of all, our Transactional business generally improving, which was -- and I'm particularly glad to see, significantly assisted by a strong performance in our North American occupier-facing leasing market, but our capital transaction business also significantly improved despite the fact, and this is important, you'll see in a minute, that we had very, very little exposure to the driver of world capital transaction volumes in the U.S. market during the period. Secondly, our Less Transactional business grew as we anticipated, and you'll see later on with significant improvement to the bottom line. And finally, and these two are connected actually, we started to see the benefits of our cost-saving initiatives from last year. We've also worked hard to broaden and deepen our bench during this period with some key recruitment and team leads. And of course, Eastdil Secured Savills joined the group at the 31st of July, just 2 weeks ago. And frankly, we're both delighted now to be able to get on with business. You'll see later that they actually unsurprisingly had a very strong first half too, and I'll talk a bit about what we're doing in terms of integration, et cetera. Finally, on this slide, reflecting our confidence and the normal operation of our ordinary dividend, we've declared an interim dividend of 7.8p, up 5.5% or so year-on-year. So let's start by looking at the capital market context for our performance. So what these charts show is the 12-month rolling investment market volumes quarter-by-quarter since 2020. And the reason we do that, it's the best way to minimize background noise and seasonality from the data. And what you'll see during the last 6 months from the top left is that global volumes were recovering nicely, up 18% half year-on-half year. And if you look to the top right, you can see that the U.S. market has driven that global growth. You will have also picked that up from the results of our peer group companies with large exposure to the U.S. over the last couple of weeks or so. And bear in mind, the U.S. capital market represented 60% of global volumes, and it grew by 24% half year-on-half year. And remember, we had next to no exposure to that market during the first half of '26. Thankfully, we've got Eastdil in the hutch now. APAC and EMEA were markets that performed slightly differently where -- and they are markets where our traditional investment agency strength lies. So what you see from the bottom left is APAC coming back nicely, but from a low base. And critically, sentiment in EMEA, really for obvious reasons, was affected by its nature as the most hydrocarbon import-dependent market on the planet. And for obvious reasons, that's caused a lot of issues over the course of this period. So the three conclusions to draw from this slide are that: number one, market share gains in our markets outside the U.S. has enabled us to perform as well as we did do during the first half in some difficult conditions; number two, it's self-evident why we desire the quality exposure to the U.S. that Eastdil Secured Savills provides us; and finally, this is an implication rather than overt on the slide, the resilience and profitable growth of our Less Transactional business has been and will remain hugely important to the performance of our organization overall, both in terms of our client service and our financial performance. So with that in mind, let's have a quick look at the revenue highlights. So in these couple of slides, I'm going to focus on revenue. Nick will talk through profitability, but you'll see that every business line has improved during this period on the bottom line. Across the board in our Transactional business, it is a story of gains in market share, enabling us to perform as we have and show the growth in revenues that we have. We start with the Commercial Transaction business. Revenues up 19% overall with capital transactions up 22%, well ahead of market in what was described in Q2 as a delayed, not destroyed continuation of recovery in EMEA in particular. Of note was U.K. growth of 17% against a market where volumes actually declined by 12% half year-on-half year, very strong performance. In APAC, it was again a market share story with our business development activities of last year starting to come good in Australia during the ramp-up phase. And importantly, the market in Greater China beginning to turn more positive, again, off a low base. Finally, we saw different levels of market recovery across continental Europe with, broadly speaking, the further south you get, the better, the further north, the more compromised. But -- and our occupier advisory business, particularly in the U.S. was very strong, 23% growth in revenues year-on-year, which is really good to see. And Nick will talk a bit more about the profitability improvement in due course. Residential was more mixed. We had revenues up 3% overall, and this is a very good performance in some tricky market conditions, particularly given the strong -- the largest part of our residential business being the U.K., was down 9%, and Nick will talk about the impact of the Renters' Rights Act in a moment, because that's the predominant reason for that decline. The brightest was our secondary sales or conventional state agency, if you will, where we saw growth of 2%, again, driven against declines in market volumes, but increase in our market share of transactions above GBP 5 million. Finally, the Middle East was up 34% on a very strong first quarter before conflict escalation constrained new development sales from Q2. But one thing I will point out here is we've seen no evidence to date of expat repatriation from the region, which is important as we look forward. So let's turn to our Less Transactional lines. Here, you'll see significant in due course, growth from these -- profit growth from these businesses in a moment. But if we start with PM and FM, we saw revenue growth in line with our long-term expectations of mid to high single digits. And that is net of the impact of last year's restructuring in China, which reduced revenue. For your note, it's about 170 basis points of reduction in revenue simply through that restructuring, but improved profits. Elsewhere, we're winning new business across EMEA and in Asia Pacific and broadening the client offering in Singapore, where we're pushing into government-mandated integrated facilities management contracts, much aided by the acquisition of Alpina in that market last year. MEIT Consultants is a small business, but I put it there and reference it because it brings critical M&E and environmental engineering capability into the data center sector for us in EMEA. Moving on to our consulting business. It grew revenue by 2% with strong valuations and building consultancy contributing in EMEA and the successful integration of our move and change management business, Hoffman, in the U.S. These were offset at the revenue [Technical Difficulty] by a significant reduction in project management pass-through costs in India, so 0 profit impact, but again, another reduction in revenue and the impact of last year's restructuring in China as well, which had a small impact on the revenue line here. Again, positive impact on profits. I should note that in many of these consultancy lines, we are beginning to benefit significantly from investment in data curation and digitization. Finally, Savills Investment Management grew revenues by 8% despite a still very challenging capital raising market across EMEA. And it was higher transaction fees and asset management fees that drove that growth. We've also made some management changes in that, in both Europe and Asia and now working on the next 5-year plan for that business. All in all, our Less Transactional businesses performed well and really anchored the performance of the group overall. So I'll now turn to our newest family member, Eastdil Secured, which obviously didn't affect our performance during this first 6 months other than that we had to recognize some of the costs of acquisition before the period end. So the first half momentum, both in revenue and in pipeline, evidence why we are so excited about this combination. The mix of revenue was well balanced, roughly 60% equity related, 40% debt related. And I would draw your attention to the fact that actually that debt advisory business is the Eastdil Secured Savills equivalent of the recurring revenue line, which is important to us as we go forward. I'd also draw your attention to the fact that you see from the chart below that Eastdil Secured Savills was #1 in the U.S. public M&A market advisory league table during this period, which was an exceptional performance in both senses of that word, exceptional. So don't expect that necessarily to continue through the second half, but it's great to see it. And it definitely helped drive their revenue growth in the U.S., up 33% versus the European revenue growth up a healthy 23% during the period. Obviously, H1 was pre-acquisition and therefore, doesn't directly benefit Savills' shareholders during the period. What I do think it does do though is it underpins the rationale, structure and ultimately, the Board decision to go ahead with that transaction when we did. So if you hold that thought, I'll hand over to Nick to take you through the detail of our finances.

Thank you, Simon. Good morning, everyone. As you read from Simon, hot summer's day, very impressed to see a few ties in the room. Thankfully, no shorts from Clyde. So let's turn to the headline results, where the group has delivered strong earnings growth driven by an increase in revenue along with positive margin progression. Revenue of more than GBP 1.2 billion is up 8.7%, predominantly organically generated with underlying EBITDA up 32% to almost GBP 74 million. Underlying PBT at GBP 34.3 million is up 47% or almost 49% on a constant currency basis, delivering underlying EPS of 17.9p. This strong EPS growth means the interim dividend has again been increased at a rate well ahead of inflation with a 5.4% uplift delivering a payout of 7.8p per share. And as you can see, we ended the period with net debt of less than GBP 50 million, although we moved back to a net cash position at the end of July ahead of completion of the Eastdil acquisition. As you heard from Simon, revenue growth was delivered across all Savill's main business areas, including Transactional revenues up 14% overall, driven by a strong commercial performance, particularly in North America, offsetting some of the headwinds in EMEA residential. Less Transactional revenues again rose up 6%. Overall, Less Transactional revenues of GBP 776 million represented 63% of group total revenues, a critical component of Savill's diversified and well-balanced business model. And as you can see bottom right, the consistent revenue growth delivered by the group over the last 4 years is up by more than 20%. This strong performance delivered not only revenue growth, but also a significant increase in underlying profit before tax, too, which was up 47%. There was a significant reduction in first half losses on the Commercial Transactional side, driven by improved performances, notably in the U.S., Hong Kong, Germany, Italy and the U.K. The group also benefited from the inherent operational leverage within the business. Residential advisory activities delivered a profit of GBP 2.1 million, although this was down from last year, principally due to the onetime negative income recognition effects of the imposition of the Renters' Rights Act in the U.K. First half profits on the Less Transactional side were up 28% to GBP 42.2 million with a particularly strong uplift of 74% on the consultancy side, largely resulting from the restructuring activities last year in China and strong progress year-to-date in North America. The Property and Facilities Management business delivered another resilient performance, and the group continues to focus on lifting the Investment Management margin. So with first half underlying profits of GBP 34.3 million, you can see in the bar chart that margin growth momentum continues to build across the business, one of the group's key strategic priorities. Equally, this improved level of profit came through across all of the group's regions, with the smallest uplift but highest profits coming from EMEA, where an improved performance on the continent was largely offset by lower U.K. residential profits. APAC performed strongly, delivering a 75% increase in profit, driven by a strong capital markets performance and cost-saving measures in China. And following our targeted investments in the region, particularly in Australia and Japan, there should be more profits in coming periods. And North America generated a profit of GBP 2.6 million, a positive GBP 9 million swing year-on-year, driven by both our transactional and consultancy activities delivering positive margins. On the occupier leasing side, there was an increase in larger office deals and overall pipelines for the second half was strong across both Office and Industrial. So pulling this all together with the group's customary reconciliation of underlying profit to IFRS reported profits. There are two key points to highlight alongside the more detailed reconciliation included in the appendices. Firstly, the GBP 7.2 million of restructuring costs includes the previously guided GBP 3 million overhang from last year's restructuring activities, with the balance linked to the further rightsizing of certain service lines, predominantly in APAC and on the continent. And for the second half, a similar quantum is expected as the group completes its strategic restructuring activities, including some Eastdil related integration costs, which, as you would expect, are predominantly in Europe. In total, the full year's restructuring and integration costs are likely to be around half of last year's GBP 30 million charge and are expected to benefit the group's profits and margin in future years. Secondly, the GBP 13.5 million of transaction costs includes professional adviser fees related to the Eastdil purchase. And following successful closing of the deal, the balance of the adviser costs and fees associated with the acquisition mean group transaction costs are expected to be higher in the second half than the first. So whilst the group's profits are consistently second half weighted, this has been a strong first half for the Savills team with underlying EPS up 53%. And we are pleased to report the same for our new colleagues at Eastdil Secured Savills too, who had a particularly strong first half. You can see in the second column, Eastdil's H1 revenues were GBP 225 million, the USD 302 million Simon referred to earlier. This delivered an underlying EBITDA of GBP 38.4 million for the 6 months, presented on the same U.S. GAAP basis as Eastdil's GBP 84 million EBITDA for the full year 2025 that we disclosed back in March. Further down the page, you can see that this EBITDA of GBP 38.4 million would translate into an illustrative estimated underlying PBT of GBP 37.8 million or margin of 17% post conversion to IFRS and adjusting for depreciation and other items. This underlying profit is presented on a consistent basis with the Savills' stand-alone underlying PBT, including adjustments for the amortization expense relating to the historic onetime Eastdil SIP put in place in 2025. As disclosed on purchase, the 5-year SIP results in a non-cash annual charge of around GBP 30 million or GBP 15 million each 6 months, which will continue to be reflected in reported profits until maturity in 2030. To give you a sense of the pro forma group profitability pre-synergies, we've combined the stand-alone Eastdil and Savills H1 performances, along with the expected initial interest expense associated with the $800 million of acquisition financing, which should, of course, fall over time as the debt is paid down from free cash flow. So taken together, on a pro forma illustrative basis, the combination would have increased the H1 group UPBT by GBP 21 million to GBP 55 million, an uplift of 60%. This reaffirms the Board's view that the combination should not only deliver better client outcomes, but also meaningful earnings accretion and strong returns for shareholders, too. So looking ahead to the full year 2026 numbers for the enlarged group, which will include Eastdil's contribution from August through to December. With Eastdil historically having a much less skewed profit weighting to the second half than Savills' stand-alone, current expectations are for a 5-month profit contribution to the group, broadly similar to the Eastdil profit performance in the first half. We will, of course, be able to provide actual rather than illustrative financials at year-end, and we'll give you clear line of sight of Eastdil's performance as well as updating our segmental reporting. Finally from me, the group remains committed to maintaining a strong balance sheet with the cash flow generation of the group, including the underpin from Savill's resilient Less Transactional earnings, supporting a capital allocation policy of running with some low financial leverage. To facilitate the combination with Eastdil, the team successfully arranged an attractive $800 million bridge facility from existing group lenders. $450 million of this has already been refinanced with a 3 plus 1 plus 1-year term bank loan, which has pricing and covenants in line with the group's existing main revolving credit facility, which matures in 2030. The remaining $350 million is expected to be refinanced within the next 12 months through the issuance of new fixed coupon, medium-term U.S. private placement notes in a market well known to Savills. These combined U.S. dollar facilities are expected to have an all-in cost between 5.5% and 6%. Looking ahead, the expected strong cash generation of the enlarged group is set to deliver a net debt-to-EBITDA of 1.5x or less by year-end '26 and around 1x at the end of 2027, all else equal. And the enlarged group's through the year cash flow profile will be similar to Savills' historic profile, so you should continue to see a higher leverage ratio at half year than the full year. Taken together, the Board remains committed to maintaining the group's strong balance sheet and attractive shareholder distribution policy while still having some scope to pursue further growth opportunities, always taking a disciplined approach. With these positive financial results along with the technical guidance slide included in the appendix, you should hopefully have all the key data points to update your models. Now back to Simon to talk about strategy.

Thank you, Nick. I won't take too long now. Before I get into that, I'd just like to reemphasize around the Eastdil Secured transaction and articulate to clearly and directly how I believe it benefits all the stakeholders of Savills. Because I'm genuinely confident on all three accounts I'm about to give you. So first of all, and most importantly, for clients, clients gain a partner who can help them from the very largest, most complex of transaction down through leasing and other services that we provide to the day-to-day management of their assets and portfolios. Our people benefit from a larger playing field, broader and deeper client relationships and more opportunity in a genuinely global franchise. And finally, our shareholders gain, as you've heard, an earnings-enhancing transaction that lifts our margin trajectory, provides attractive returns and strengthens the global position of this group. So let's look at that in the context of what has become affectionately known as the pyramid of promise, which is our strategic slide. Because that really is the heart of the story. And you will have seen this in March when I put it up for the first time for you. But if we start at the base of that pyramid, we have always had a focus on building our less transactional business lines around the world, that's property management, facilities management. They represent our constant practical touch point with our clients. And corporately, they act as the keel on the ship in all weathers. We then move up through the pyramid through Investment Management and into the transactional element of our business via consultancy as well. The Transactional business element has its own hierarchy of volatility and profitability. So if you look at the debt element, as I mentioned earlier, that's much more of a recurring business line despite it being transactional. And at the apex, M&A and strategic advice (sic) [ advisory ] is perhaps most profitable, but also inherently variable. So building on our historic strength in capital transactions, Eastdil Secured Savills builds out that part of the portfolio of services by enhancing that strategic M&A advisory, portfolio recap, debt and equity capability and most importantly, at scale, both in EMEA and in North America. And if you recall my slide right at the beginning, that is really important to us. Overall, as I just said, the combination dramatically increases our ability to serve our clients from the discreet conversation in the Boardroom down through the execution of real estate transactions into the day-to-day management of underlying real estate portfolios and assets. So I'm just going to turn now to another slide I put up in March. I'm not going to go through the whole lot. You've seen most of this before. But on the left-hand side are the many reasons why this investment banking business of Eastdil is attractive to us. But I want to just underline two further points. First of all, it enables us to access and partner with the top global investors in real estate at the very highest level before there is a transaction or an asset management strategy in mind, and that is critical. Secondly, debt advisory at scale enables us to serve every element of the cap table of the world's real estate investors. Those are the two important things about this deal. Finally, I do believe that this is a genuinely symbiotic relationship between the two sides of our business. Our respective service lines are compatible and complementary, and there is opportunity going both ways, as this slide tries to show. And it will catalyze our ability to develop the global portfolio of our traditional service lines over the coming years as well. So it's important in many different ways. If we turn to the business itself, some practical elements around our modus operandi. There's nothing particularly new here in that -- we referenced that this is going to be our strategy in -- back in March. But you'll recall that this is a combination which unusually for a sizable deal in our sector carries very little overlap between the two businesses. This is important as it should help to mitigate revenue attrition which inevitably occurs in major mergers this time. Critically too, our respective cultures are very, very similar. And the one thing I would say is that with the broader and deeper interactions we've had between the businesses, between our people since March, that factor has just become ever more clear and ever more obvious to both of us, which is growth. So what we've done from an operating perspective is to ensure that Eastdil Secured Savills retains its existing modus operandi, its existing operating model, a single global P&L, a single global bonus pool with the frontline connectivity between us managed by something called the buddy system, which is awful phrase, but you remember it because it's awful. Under which Savills' individuals and their respective counterparts at Eastdil develop assisted relationships across service lines and sectors to know how to work together to go with joint offerings to the client or as a conduit for referrals. From a governance perspective, Eastdil Secured's CEO and President have both joined the Group Executive Board, which is chaired by me, and it is the primary committee responsible for running this business overall around the globe. And finally, I'm particularly pleased that even in the 2 weeks since we've actually consummated the transaction, we're already starting to see potential opportunities across referrals, but also joint approaches to market and indeed joint appointments. So that's great news. Our results today, turning to other strategic priorities apart from the Eastdil position, are important because they reflect the stand-alone strategic and tactical initiatives we've taken over previous periods. I set out all of these other strategic priorities in March, so I'm not going to go through them all in detail, but I would categorize them as classic growth and infill strategies as we seek to bring the appropriate segments of that pyramid of promise to our clients and markets around the world over time. You'll see we've done quite a lot over the last few months from the bottom of this slide. Much of it from China to the private office to Savills Investment Management has been about enhancing our roster of leaders and senior team members. But we're still keeping a very close eye on cost and on both individual and team performance across the business, alongside some focused growth initiatives, which you will have heard about from recruiting of the leading data center team in Japan and [Technical Difficulty] Investment Management leader there as well and through to investing into our proprietary CRM systems in global residential and broader initiatives in data curation and there I use the acronym AI as well, where we've got a lot going on as we go. We're also planning -- the planning stage, I should say, for the launch of future service line enhancements in North America over the coming periods. There'll be more about that over the next few years. So there's a lot going on, but with some very clear strategic filters in place to ensure that we make the best use of both our human and capital resources. So I look forward to updating you more fully in future periods along these lines. I want to finish by looking into that crystal ball. And after a strong H1, we're in a good place with significant pipelines. But I am constantly reminded of my new colleague, Mike Van Konynenburg, CEO of Eastdil, and his great line, which resonates, "Pipeline is great, but you can't eat it." It obviously has to convert into closed transactions and revenue over the course of this period. And to be frank, that execution timing is the hardest thing to predict in current market conditions in many, many markets in which we operate. Which also include, I should say, the new political landscape in the U.K., too, in advance of the budget in October. That said, our Less Transactional businesses are giving us both the resilience and the growth we expect, which together with those pipelines means that our expectations for the full year remain unchanged. I want to finish by thanking all our colleagues around the world for their hard work, resilience in some tricky market conditions and their relentless focus on client service and rigorous execution without which none of this would be possible. So as we go into questions, I'll leave a concluding slide up for you, which I think just sets out how we as management feel about Savills at the moment. And this slide speaks to the breadth of our business, both by geography and by service lines, which provides overall diversification, but also critically good growth potential. It speaks to our financial strength and the discipline with which we use it and to our focus on margin improvement. And I do believe that this set of characteristics supports the enlarged Savills strategy, which pursued with conviction and a relentless focus on client needs will enable us to deliver very attractive shareholder returns over the coming periods. So thank you. That concludes the formal part of this morning. We'll now take some questions. If you have any, please do state your name and institution for the record. And I think Susie is going to govern any questions that come in online as well. Have even a microphone for Clyde, although you probably don't need it, to be fair.

First question was on market share. It sounds like you've done a cracking job in U.K. in particular. But it would be fascinating to know a little bit more about how you've been so successful there? And also what sort of response we've seen from the competitors I suppose?

I suppose it differs across the different service lines. But I mean, if you take one of the most acute pieces of evidence around that would be in the residential market, which you know only too well. And clearly, it hasn't been a great overall market for U.K. residential for all sorts of well-rehearsed reasons we don't need to go into. I think the laser eyed focus of our teams on proper advice to clients in an environment where one can end up with agents bidding for the business with overvaluation, et cetera, has made a significant difference to us. I think also, and if you've followed us for many years, as you know, in difficult market conditions, there is a tendency for a flight to quality and a flight to a degree of certainty of execution when it's necessary. And I think we always benefit from that. Certainly, in my nearly 18 years, we've always benefited in more difficult market conditions. So I think there are two quite important factors there. I think in the commercial side of our business, we've just really stuck at it through thick and thin, I think about, for instance, the retail market over previous years. And we start to benefit from the business that is there. I would also say that there is an element also, the halo effect of the Eastdil Secured transaction in many markets, particularly the case in the U.S., I would suggest. Even though what we do in the U.S. today is leasing, there is a halo effect benefit to our organization from being aligned to Eastdil Secured sales, which is obviously much better known in the U.S. than it is necessarily over here. So those are a couple of factors.

Second one on acquisition pipeline. I mean, obviously, you've done smaller bolt-on deals fairly consistently over time. Is there going to be a bit of a pause given obviously the big deals done, you've got an awful lot of work to do. I mean the organic opportunities from Eastdil obviously are humongous. So does that get parked?

I think not parked, but we -- really, the next 6 months plus is all about generating the mutual benefit out of this large transaction we've done. We will still do bolt-on infill things that, as I referenced earlier, which is a normal course of events. Where we have gap to fill, we will fill it. But I wouldn't expect a hero style deal over the next few months at all. It's all about making the best of what we've now got, which is very exciting.

I do one more and then I'll -- And the buddy system and I suppose opportunities for Savills to piggyback on Eastdil and vice versa. I mean 6 months on from when the deal was announced, you've had an awful lot of, I'm sure interaction with them. Where have your thoughts around the biggest opportunities for organic development sort of evolved to, what's the sort of top two or three areas that you can see evolving?

I think in no particular order, the obvious one is with a debt advisory business of scale in the organization. We already have one in the U.K., small -- effective but small and U.K. focused. But our clients around the globe could well do with that debt advisory capability that comes from the Eastdil side. So that's almost a no-brainer. I think the other area which is very exciting, and we've been bolstering our roster, as you heard in this over the course of the last few months as well, is the whole area of digital infrastructure and data centers. And I'm particularly interested in how Eastdil Secured Savills and Savills can work together in the APAC region, which I think is incredibly exciting. It will be the case in EMEA as well that APAC is almost virgin territory for us. So I think those are two areas where you can really point to activity and potential quite quickly. I think the rest of it is a long burn. We talked about synergies at the March announcement. So I've got every confidence that the sort of numbers we put up there are going to be obliterated in real life over a number of years as we look out.

Chris Millington at Deutsche. First one is just a quick checking question about the dividend. Obviously, as you say, ahead of inflation, but somewhat lacking earnings growth. Is there any reason to think there's any sort of change there going forward or we should keep a similar...?

No change to the policy at all. And clearly, the one thing that we'll need to work through is that we'll have a 5-month contribution this year from Eastdil, but all the shares have been issued, but the approach around progressively growing the ordinary dividend by the Less Transactional plus the supplemental dividend absolutely in place.

Next one is restructuring. What do you think the benefit this year is in terms of cost savings? I know it's always a bit difficult to get underneath, but what do you think?

I think it's very difficult because obviously, you've got business -- uncovered business development costs as well. Take our Australia business. We invested a lot in Australia and starting to see the results both in reality in the P&L, but also in pipelines interestingly. But if you look at gross benefit before that additional cost load, I suggest it's around half the GBP 13 million, around about GBP 6 million of it that we guided to last year in this period.

I'll do two more. APAC, that -- the page you showed, the kind of backdrop of market conditions and APAC looks fairly flat. Now we know it's not flat, and you need to go a little bit further back in the chart to show that. But perhaps you can give us a context of where Asia is now, where it used to be and perhaps a bigger focus on mainland China, Hong Kong, which are clearly hard [Technical Difficulty]?

Yes. I think not to go on for too long, but I think one of the big differences -- Asia, and our Asia business has historically been very Sino-centric. It's been really around Greater China. So Mainland China, Hong Kong, and indeed Taiwan, Chinese Taipei as well. I -- We have consciously sought to build our business in Australia and Japan over time. Those are the two markets that have actually strengthened somewhat over the course of this first 6 months. And we've also seen a strengthening of the Chinese market, both Hong Kong and Mainland China, but candidly off a very low base of last year. So I would expect to see further growth coming through in the next 18 months or so in that traditional heartland of the Sino axis, but I'm also very excited about the things that we're doing in Australia and Japan that will leverage underlying market growth in those markets. Not to leave aside Singapore, Korea, et cetera, but those are the material ones where there's significant value on international scale.