Home / Transcripts / Smiths News plc (SNWS) · May 10, 2021

Smiths News plc (SNWS) Earnings Call Transcript

May 10, 2021

London Stock Exchange GB Consumer Discretionary earnings 43 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Unknown Executive executive
#1

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Smiths News plc investor presentation for the unaudited interim financial results for the 26 weeks ended 27th of February, '21. [Operator Instructions] I'd also like to remind you that this presentation is being recorded. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. And I'd now like to hand to Jon Bunting, CEO; and Tony Grace, CFO of Smiths News plc. Good morning.

Jonathan Bunting executive
#2

Thank you very much. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our presentation of the Smiths News plc's interim results. The format, I'm sure, will be familiar. After I give a brief review of the headline performance, Tony Grace, our CFO, will take us through the financial results in more detail. I'll then review operational and strategic progress with a particular focus on our management through the pandemic and the impacts it's had on the business and our markets. Lastly, but importantly, I'll cover our capital management policy and our plans to deliver shareholder value over for the medium term. At the end of the presentation, Tony and I will then take questions. So turning to the headlines. I'm pleased to report that we are on track with all the key elements of our business plan despite the continuation of difficult macro trading circumstances. Overall, profit is in line with expectations as a result of careful management of operations throughout the second and third lockdowns and the underlying resilience of our business model. Indeed, the core wholesale operation of Smiths News is ahead of last year, with overall profit down due to the impact of the pandemic on our ancillary businesses. Given that the comparable prior year period predated to COVID pandemic, this is a strong performance from what is the main engine of the business. I'm pleased to confirm that as sales have stabilized, we've once again achieved a critical measure of savings and efficiencies offsetting the margin impact of the decline in core sales. To be doubly clear, we have done so without impact on service, maintaining a full-service to customers throughout the subsequent lockdowns. Meanwhile, our capital management objectives are on track following the successful refinancing in November 2020. So turning to the pandemic, we continue to provide a full and safe service to all of our customers with KPIs at pre-pandemic levels. Importantly, sales in lockdowns 2 and 3 did not see the sharp decline that we witnessed in March to May 2020, with far fewer retailers closing. Travel and commuting retailers, however, remains severely impacted, and they will continue to represent a substantial portion of the decline in the market as a whole. From the perspective of our financial performance, it is the relative stability that drives our ability to reduce costs and maintain controls whilst meeting our service obligations. In this respect, our teams have done a magnificent job as the country gradually returns to more normal patterns, we are confident the progress we have made can be sustained, and with any increase in cost from potentially increased volumes being kept strictly in proportion to the benefits. Beyond the core wholesale operation, our ancillary businesses of DMD and in-store have suffered year-on-year profit impact as a consequence of the pandemic. However, I can confirm they're operating at breakeven or marginally better, and our expectations are not reliant on their recovery in this year. So turning to dividends and capital management. We have been clear that we would pursue a prudent approach to capital management with a focus on maintaining liquidity throughout the pandemic and reducing debt in line with our new banking arrangements. The tight control of cash, debt and CapEx has been achieved in line with our expectations. And as we gradually emerge from the COVID restrictions, we can be confident in the ongoing performance of the business. In that context and, of course, subject to performance being maintained, we are planning for the return to the payment of dividends later in this financial year after the bank financial covenant tests are met at the end of this month. I'll give more detail on these points later in today's presentation, but for now, I'll hand over to Tony to talk you through the numbers.

Tony Grace executive
#3

Thank you, Jon. Good morning, everyone. The first half of the financial year includes a number of significant events, most notably, the completion of our refinancing in November 2020 and our response to the impact of the lockdowns in November and the months after Christmas. So let's now turn to the adjusted continuing income statement. Total revenue declined year-on-year by 11.5%, with 5% reflecting the underlying structural decline of newspapers and magazines and the balance, the continuing closure of retailers located at travel hubs and the more general additional impact of the lockdowns in the period. Adjusted EBITDA, excluding IFRS 16 lease accounting was GBP 20.5 million, GBP 1.2 million down in the same period last year. This was a resilient performance in a challenging environment with planned cost savings dovetailing with incremental cost controls as the business flex to adjust to lower volume. The decrease in EBITDA can be attributed to 3 distinct business drivers: a reduction in margin across all businesses of GBP 8.2 million as a result of the decline in revenue and volume. However, the reduction in volume was partly offset by depot and delivery cost savings within Smiths News of approximately GBP 4 million. A proportion of these costs are variable with volume in nature and we expect these to increase as revenues and volumes recover in H2. The final element is overhead savings of approximately GBP 3 million, a result of the restructuring implemented at the end of FY 2020, including the transfer of activities to a shared service center in India. Operating profit, including IFRS 16, but excluding adjusting items, is GBP 18.9 million, down GBP 1 million year-on-year, which comprises a reduction of GBP 0.5 million for Smiths News and GBP 0.5 million reduction for DMD. Operating margins increased to 3.4% compared to 3.1% in H1 2020, which underlines the flexibility and resilience of the business model. Finance costs increased by GBP 0.9 million to GBP 4.5 million due to the increased amortization cost of the facility arrangement fees of GBP 600,000 and increased interest costs and borrowings of GBP 300,000. Adjusted profit before tax was GBP 14.4 million, down GBP 1.9 million, which is 11.7%. The effective tax rate was 20.8% with a tax charge of GBP 3 million, which is GBP 100,000 lower than last year. Adjusted earnings per share was 4.6p, down 13%. It's worth noting that on a statutory basis, the recovery in financial performance has been more marked. Profit before tax was GBP 16 million, up GBP 9.3 million with adjusted items in the period of GBP 1.6 million, which relates to the reassessment of recovery of the Tuffnells deferred consideration. Statutory earnings per share in H1 2021 was 5.3p, up 3.5p on H1 2020 and higher by 0.7p compared to adjusted continued EPS in the period. We believe we have now established a stable, profitable foundation on which we can build a revised capital allocation policy, which Jon will explain later in the presentation. I will now look at free cash flow on a continuing basis. Free cash flow generation remains one of the company's key strengths and in these COVID-19 challenging times, the company has maintained its clear focus on cash generation and liquidity. And what was a challenging trading environment, the group generated GBP 4.6 million of free cash flow compared to GBP 5 million last year. It should be recognized that the business continues to be cash-generative throughout all COVID-19 lockdowns. Overall, adjusted EBITDA, this time including the GBP 3.9 million impact of IFRS 16 in H1 '21, declined by GBP 0.5 million to GBP 24.4 million. The working capital movement in the period was GBP 4.8 million cash outflow, higher than in the same period last year, and is driven by the timing of the receipts from retailers and payments to partnerships. It's worth noting that during the COVID-19 lockdowns in the period, we did not experience any significant abnormal returns of newspapers and magazines from the closure of retailers. Capital expenditure for Smiths News was GBP 3.2 million lower than last year as the company maintained strict control over cash outflows. CapEx plans remain focused on replacement and maintenance rather than growth CapEx, and total spend will be broadly in line with the annual non-IFRS 16 depreciation chart, which is GBP 4 million. Lease payments declined by GBP 1.2 million -- sorry, lease payments declined by GBP 1 million to GBP 2.9 million as some IT equipment, leases came to an end in the prior year. Net interest paid has increased by GBP 200,000 to GBP 3.5 million, a result of higher interest rates under the new debt facility. Average borrowings of GBP 89.5 million in the first half of the year were 9% lower than in the prior year. Arrangement fees of GBP 2.8 million paid in the current year relate to the debt refinancing completed in November 2020. Tax payments of GBP 2.8 million are higher than the prior year due to an additional quarterly payment made in February 2021. The cash cost of adjusting items in the period was GBP 2.6 million compared to GBP 4.2 million last year. This primarily represented network reorganization cost of GBP 2 million and pension buyout costs with similar outlays expected in H2 2021. Finally, I shall now turn to look at the net debt position of the group at the half year. The business has continued to remain focused on deleveraging, and this is reflected in the amortization schedule in the new buying facility. The first half amortization of GBP 7.5 million was completed in the last week of April. At the half year, closing bank net debt of GBP 70 million, excluding IFRS 16, and increased by GBP 1.5 million compared to last year. However, compared to the year-end, net debt is down GBP 9.7 million as a result of GBP 4.6 million from positive trading free cash flow and discontinued cash inflows of GBP 5.4 million following full repayment of a temporary working capital loan provided to the new owners of Tuffnells. Following the adoption of IFRS 16 lease accounting, property leases on our depots have been added to the calculation of net debt, giving an IFRS 16 total net debt of GBP 101.3 million at the half year. We successfully refinanced a GBP 120 million bank facility for 3 years in November 2020. Our bank covenants continue to be measured under frozen GAAP. And consequently, bank net debt at the half year was GBP 70 million, which represents leverage of 1.8x EBITDA, a reduction from the 2x at the last half year. I shall now hand back to Jon for an update on operational and strategic progress.

Jonathan Bunting executive
#4

Thank you, Tony. So briefly, just to outline that in this section of the presentation, I'm going to cover 5 topics: firstly, the actions we've taken in managing through the pandemic and the consequences for service and operations; secondly, an overview of its impact on our sales and markets and what it means going forward; thirdly, I'll cover our ancillary businesses and provide reassurance on their prospects; fourthly, capital management policy and our approach to dividends going forward; and then last but not least, our priorities and outlook for the remainder of the year. Starting with the pandemic. On the right-hand side of this slide, you'll see the principles we've established last year, which continues to guide all of our actions. When we spoke last November, we could not have known that there would be 2 subsequent lockdowns and that these principles would remain quite so central to our plans. I'm pleased to confirm that they continue to be met without compromise to the safety of our colleagues or the progress of our business plan. Clearly, the pandemic continues to impact sales and operations with disruptions in shopping, travel, commuting as well as wider social events, including sports that help drive newspapers and magazine sales. The second and third lockdowns were, however, less impactful than the first with significantly fewer retail closures, down to circa 120 outlets from a high of over 2,000 in the early days of lockdown 1. This not only helped with availability in sales, it also supports our cash flow and our indexed-linked delivery service charges. Our contractor delivery model is a further element of resilience, which allows for greater flex in variable costs as volume fluctuate. The removal and consolidation of routes has played a key role in mitigating the impact of reduced margin. The action we took on central costs following the sale of Tuffnells is also flowing through in line with our plan, as are longer-term operational savings in the business. Our ancillary businesses have been harder hit, especially DMD, which serves international travel markets. The impact across all these businesses year-on-year is around GBP 1.4 million profitability terms. Looking ahead, we have kept costs under tight control, and through there, is a year-on-year impact in the period that they're operating at breakeven or growth. And we do not consider them a material risk to meeting our expectations going forward. More widely, we remain cautious and focused in our management of operations as we hopefully exit the pandemic in an irreversible way. Meanwhile, there will be no compromise to our core principles, and we will work with our industry partners to recover as much lost ground as possible, albeit that our plans for the year are not dependent on volume recovery. If we look at sales, the graph on the slide shows the impact of the pandemic on our sales over the last 18 months. As you can see, sales were formally following the established pattern of declines in the region of up to 5% per year. During the first lockdown, sales were dramatically impacted, especially in April and May. At the peak of the crisis in April, magazines were down by nearly 50% and newspapers were down by 18%. Since then, a more stable pattern has emerged, albeit with ongoing sales decline of circa 11%, indicating that the pandemic has reduced sales by circa 6% on top of the established declines. This situation broadly continues and in lockdowns 2 and 3, we did not see a return to the initial reductions of spring of last year. In part, this is because only circa 120 retailers remain closed. That said, you can see the impact of the regional restrictions on magazines in the first quarter of this financial year, and there is some impact here on the timing of on sale dates and monthly publications. One of the benefits of our business model is that we distribute all retail channels, and we are not exposed to one specific channel. For example, travel. The traveling and commuting sector remains severely challenged, and we can all see that. However, we've seen our sales increase amongst independent retailers as consumers have shopped locally. We believe the current picture is broadly positive and compared to many of the retail sectors, shows a remarkable resilience in the level of disruption. Before closing the operational section, I'd just like to cover the ancillary businesses. Firstly, to stress, these typically represent only 5% of our overall EBITDA. Nonetheless, they make a valuable contribution and are complementary to the core wholesale business. As such, we remain committed to their future whilst recognizing they've suffered disproportionately from the pandemic. The impact on DMD sales will be obvious. However, some years ago, we integrated its physical operation in the U.K. into Smiths News. This means there are no additional fixed costs, and therefore, with careful management, DMD is running a skeleton operation at breakeven. As and when travel returns, we would expect to pick up. But in the meantime, the risks are contained. This situation with in-store is similar with the pandemic causing major retailers to remove outsource merchandising often to safety reasons. And thereafter, they need to reconsider their needs. In-store has greater fixed cost than DMD, but have sufficient ongoing contracts to cover these. And indeed, the business made a small contribution in the period. In summary, the outlook for these businesses remains uncertain, but we believe there is more upside than risk. And importantly, we are not dependent on their recovery to meet our profit and capital management expectations. So turning to capital management. Our capital management remains a key priority following the successful refinancing in October 2020. And by way of further context, the securing of all major contracts last year gives us high levels of cash flow visibility for the next 4 years. Combine that with the resilience we have shown through the pandemic, and the result is that despite the challenging conditions, our goals for cash, maintenance CapEx and debt are all on track. Indeed, further to the period end, the first debt amortization payment of GBP 7.5 million was made in April of this year. Looking to our policy, which I'm pleased to outline today, our objectives are: the reduction of net debt to 1x EBITDA by the end of FY '23. And we'll do that through the strong free cash flow, which supports GBP 15 million of annual amortization payments on term loan A. And then the application of any cash from the Tuffnells deferred consideration and the pension surplus against Term Loan B. This will then allow us to maintain net debt at around similar levels beyond 2023. We plan to maintain CapEx in line with depreciation of circa GBP 4 million per annum. Any additional CapEx required for growth will achieve a return of at least our adjusted cost of capital. And then returning to payment to dividend from the second half of this financial year with a dividend cover of 2x. However, under the terms of our current banking facilities, our ability to make dividend payments is restricted to GBP 4 million in FY '21 and GBP 6 million in FY '22 and FY '23. In the event there is excess cash after having applied the policy, we would look as a matter of policy to return this to shareholders in the way of special dividends. So our strategy for shareholder value is founded on 3 distinct components. The cash benefit of reduced interest payments, boosting profit before tax, potential capital growth from a stronger balance sheet underpinning our valuation and share price and then the restoration of dividend payments from later this financial year and in the event of excess cash, the returning of special dividends to shareholders. So if we look at our priorities and outlook, our operational priorities for H2 are clear and within our control. They are to manage through COVID-19, ensuring any increased costs from increased volumes are kept strictly in line with the sales benefits. Maintaining progress on securing efficiencies without compromise to our service KPIs, which give us our market leadership. And then the close control of our ancillary businesses such as any recoveries are welcomed extra but without ongoing risk. Shareholder value remains a key focus for our capital management plans. And in that regard, we have balanced objectives that meet the needs of all stakeholders. We plan to strengthen the balance sheet with target debt of net times, 1. And in line with our confidence in the business and, of course, subject to continued trending in line with expectations, we're expecting to return to payment to dividends later in this financial year. So in terms of the outlook, the prospects for ongoing trading as COVID restriction ease are clearer and more positive than they've been for some time. Trading for the year to date is in line with the Board's expectations and on track to meet market expectations for the full year. I would just like to say before closing, a special thank you to Tony Grace for his commitment and contribution to the business as well, of course, for his personal support to me in my time in this role. As you all know, Tony has taken the decision to retire. And we'd like to take an opportunity to thank Tony for the huge role he's helped us play in navigating through immense challenge and change over the last 3 years. It's very much to his credit we've come through stronger and clearer in our direction and prospects. And on behalf of the Board, we'd like to wish him well in his retirement, and I'm delighted to be around for a good number of months yet to enable a smooth handover. After that, I'm very happy now to take any questions.

Unknown Executive executive
#5

[Operator Instructions] And just while John and Tony take a few moments to review those investor questions submitted already, I'd like to remind you the recording of the presentation, along with a copy of the slides and the published Q&A can be accessed via our investor dashboard on the Investor Meet company platform. I'd also like to remind you that your feedback is really important to the company. And immediately after the presentation has ended, you'll be redirected for the opportunity to provide feedback in order of the company can better understand your views and expectations. And Jon and Tony, before we move on to some of the questions submitted during today's event, we did receive a number of pre-submitted questions from investors. And perhaps if I could start the Q&A session off with those. The first one reads as follows: Given the balance sheet is heavily negative net tangible assets and the bank borrowings are expensive at 0.5% to 6% above LIBOR. We did not make more sense to rapidly reduce debt and refinance it at a cheaper rate before resuming paying dividends?

Tony Grace executive
#6

I'll take that one, Jon.

Jonathan Bunting executive
#7

Okay.

Tony Grace executive
#8

Good question. Thank you. First of all, the margin is not the 5.5%. That is the headline rate, but because of the good performance of the business and strong cash management and the ratchet within the facility, it's actually an ongoing margin at the moment of about 4.25%. Still on the high side. And yes, probably if we went into the market and the market allowed us to do so, we could probably take 100, 125 basis points of that. However, we have a very clear plan here on achieving 1x EBITDA in terms of our leverage. We've talked about getting there by FY '23. We believe, actually, there is the opportunity, not certain that there is the opportunity that we could get there quicker. And that's because of 2 things. First of all, let me talk about the structure of our debt, and then I am going to explain. So we have a GBP 45 million Term Loan A, which amortizes GBP 7.5 million every 6 months, as I said already, with the positive repayment being made in April -- on April 29. So that will continue to amortize at GBP 15 million per annum going forward. By the end of November of this year, and it is -- that facility will set at about GBP 30 million. So that's good to hold that for. Secondly, term loan B, which is GBP 35 million, and that what we see as a [ bullet ] repayment. However, in the event that we receive the deferred consideration from Tuffnells and GBP 6.5 million of that is due again in November of this year, that must be leased against Term Loan B. We also have the likelihood of a surplus from the defined benefits funds, which has been subject of a buyer and is in the process of windup. And that could be another GBP 9 million that we receive sometime in H1 of next year. It is feasible that by November, we will have reduced our debt to about GBP 50 million. So GBP 50 million through amortization and GBP 15 million through the receipts of Tuffnells and deferred consideration surplus and the pension surplus. Plus, on top of that, it would be an RCH. However, markets are lowing and such like, we will look to refinance at the nearest opportunity, but we have a clear plan to get to 1x EBITDA through the amortization schedule and the receipt of these funds.

Unknown Executive executive
#9

Fantastic. Thank you very much indeed. The next question we've got here reads as follows: Can you expand further on the current status of DMD and in-store?

Jonathan Bunting executive
#10

Sure. Yes. Happy to take that. So as I mentioned in the presentation, both businesses are either running at breakeven or making a small contribution, and they're operating with a skeleton team. We are not benefiting from furlough in any way and haven't throughout this financial year. And we are largely waiting for those markets to come back. So if you take DMD, which services the airlines and airport market, we can all understand why volume and demand has disappeared over the last few months. Equally, I think we all recognize there is lots of pent-up demand for people to start flying again, whether that's the holidays or business trips or everything else. So we are confident the market will come back. And therefore, we're managing our cost base to ensure that it's not a risk in the interim period.

Unknown Executive executive
#11

Thank you, Jon. Next one we have here is, are there further steps planned to improve your operational efficiency?

Jonathan Bunting executive
#12

Yes. So if you look at our -- for those of you that have followed our stock for a while, you know over the last 8 years, we've got a really strong track record of delivering on our numbers and managing to offset margin decline through operational efficiencies, and we're on plan to do it again this year. We tend to operate in 3-year cycles when it looks at our operational efficiencies. So if we take the cycle we're starting now, so for the next 3 years, we've got absolute detail for where our GBP 5 million of savings will come from next year. We've got a recent amount of detail for the year after and then headline savings probably for year 3. Typically where they come from are, firstly, in our operational savings. So all of our warehouses operate activity-based costing, which means as volume declines, we know exactly which processes we have, which should reduce by which amount by location. So that's the first thing. The second thing is we also constantly look at the -- at the physical infrastructure that we've got and the number of warehouses we've got. And typically, we take some physical infrastructure off the map to drive some efficiencies, and we would expect to do some of that over the next 3 years. If we then look at our head office costs, well, we did a major restructure of those in the summer of last year. And you've seen some of the benefits of that now. We took that decision because we felt that this year would likely be more volatile given the pandemic and we wanted to establish the right cost base, and I think that's proven to be the right decision. And going forward, we'll continue to look at ways in which we can drive efficiency. So for example, we have a shared service center in India. And we allocate roles there where we feel we want that role that would benefit from the labor arbitrage of having provided in India. Now at the moment, for all the reasons we understand, there's a very human tragedy going on in India. And now would not be the right time to add more roles into that area. In fact, actually, we're providing support to our colleagues, and I've just set up a hardship fund to support our colleagues out in India. But in the medium term, when COVID is maintained and controlled, I should say, in India, then we would see an opportunity to do some more outsourcing there. We have a proven track record of taking at least GBP 5 million a year out of our cost base, and I'm confident we'll do that for at least the next 3 years, which is our operational cycle.

Unknown Executive executive
#13

That's great. Thank you very much, Jon. And Tony, I think you've probably covered this one off already., So this is as possible as we can get to net debt to 1x EBITDA before the end of full year 2023?

Tony Grace executive
#14

Yes. I think I said already that if the deferred consideration is paid in the manner it's contractually applies to be and the pension surplus come in, we have a good chance of getting there quicker, perhaps even within the next 9 to 12 months.

Unknown Executive executive
#15

That's Brilliant. Thank you. And then the final one we got here again, and just touching on those cost savings, I think you just mentioned, Jon. But you've been very successful historically taking out costs to match the decline in newspaper, magazine margins. How sustainable are these cost savings going forward?

Jonathan Bunting executive
#16

Yes. I mean, I think I'm not sure I can add too much to my previous answer on that one. Like I say, we are confident for the next 3 years because we work in 3-year cycles. And typically, it's about GBP 5 million a year. So no doubt next year, I'll be able to update that again as we move into the year 1 of the 3-year cycle. But right now, we are confident, yes.

Unknown Executive executive
#17

That's fantastic. Jon and Tony, thank you very much, indeed. That covers off the pre-submitted questions we had from investors. And obviously, we can see form the Q&A tab we've had a number of questions come in today. Perhaps I could just ask you just to click on that tab and respond to those where appropriate to do so. If I may ask you just to read out the question and even who it's from, that would be fantastic. Thank you.

Jonathan Bunting executive
#18

Okay. So let's start. So there's a question here about what's our #1 Board level priority aside from managing the COVID impact and I'm very happy to take that. So yes, of course, we've got what I would call, 3 key priorities for the business. The first and unashamedly is managing the impact. We need to manage that not only in terms of our service and our operational delivery, but also the impact on our colleagues and our customers. And so that is clearly a priority. Secondly, we know that it's really important that we deliver on our promises. And when Tony and I stand here or as we did in November and tell you what we think our results are going to be that we must deliver on that. So that unashamedly is our second priority, making sure we deliver the numbers in a way that Smiths News, as a business, actually has for a very, very long time, if you look at its track record. And then the third thing, and a more medium-term priority over the next 12 months, is to really start to think about the strategy for the group over the next 12 months. And what will that strategy just like in the medium term. So we've not started that work yet because understandably, last year was very busy on the disposal of Tuffnells, completing all the publisher contract negotiations, refinancing the business. And then more recently, managing through the pandemic. So we're starting that piece of work now, but they are the 3 priorities: manage the pandemic, deliver on our numbers and determine the medium-term strategy for this business.

Tony Grace executive
#19

While Jon's looking at the next couple of questions, which I think you've probably touched on, Jon, already. I'll take the first 2 or 3 questions here from Julian H, which is around the debt. Hopefully, I can summarize it and give 1 answer to the 3 questions, but I'm sure Julian will let me know if that's not the case. As Jon said already, a key point from Jon and I in the last 18 to 24 months has been reestablishing trust of all our stakeholders and our banks and shareholders are to those key groups. From when we've constructed our approach to debt and setting the target level of 1x EBITDA, recognizing of one strong EBITDA, the cash flow that comes from that and the feedback that we're getting from those stakeholders as to what they would find acceptable in terms of the level of debt they withhold. Getting to 0 debt has never really been a consideration or an objective set by any of our stakeholders funnily enough. And achieving the right balance between debt levels and dividend payout to satisfy the sometimes conflicting needs of the different stakeholder groups. So that's how we've got a target level of 1x EBITDA. Maybe in the medium, longer-term as the EBITDA start to -- just if it start to reduce, so we don't see that anytime soon, then we will consider further lowering the level of debt, but not at this point in time. Hopefully, that answers your question.

Jonathan Bunting executive
#20

Thank you, Tony. I've got a couple of questions here from Tim Al. So first one of those is, are your contract prices with publishers directly linked to publisher cover prices? Yes, they are. So we are rewarded on the basis of the product that we sell, i.e., volume, but at the cover price. So that is why you will sometimes see if you look at our numbers that our volume is maybe down by, say, 8%, but our value, our revenues, are down by 5%. And as you know, given the market's structural decline, slow structural decline, but it is in structural decline. Typically, you see cover prices going up. So when you're buying your newspapers and magazines, I'm sure you've noticed that cover price tend to at -- works for us. We're delivering the same amount of product but at a higher price point, and we get a percentage of that price point. Tim's also got a secondary question. What is the biggest threat to achieving your targets over the next 2 years? Well, none of us know what we don't know. So there may be something from left field that none of us can foresee. I think the single biggest threat is not a continuation of current business. We've mapped all that out, we've built that into our numbers, and we're comfortable with that. If there was something probably to happen to the revenue line, which would be unforeseen. And much, much different to the current trading. So if there was to be a pandemic where we went back to lockdown 1 levels, where hardly anyone was moving and hardly any retail outlets were open, then clearly, that would have an impact on our performance. But outside of that and just at normal trading, you need to remember that our contracts are secured until 2024, 2025. We've got an agile cost base with use of our contractor model for the final mile distribution. We've got our 3-year plans in place for cost savings. So yes. So I think we're in good shape, but that would be the single thing that could take us off course if something just happened to our sales line that none of us could foresee. A further question from Tim Al. How much would you expect DMD to contribute to EBITDA if the travel starts to recover? Good question, Tim. In the medium term, DMD is certainly a 7-figure business, a very small 7-figure business, 1 point something probably. What we don't know is how quickly the market will recover simply because it's -- DMD services the world, if you like. So one of its leading clients is Emirates, and we operate across a number of different countries for Emirates. So even if the U.K. starts to recover, it will depend on what's happening in the Middle East or Asia before we fully start to get the market back for DMD, but it's a small 7-figure business when the market is operating at its normal.

Tony Grace executive
#21

Yes, it was an interesting follow-up there from Julian. Julian, I think we -- the best for the business is cannot be determined without considering the wishes of stakeholders. So a [indiscernible] answer to your question maybe, but actually at this point in time, I think the 1x EBITDA is the right level for this business. We've carried higher levels of debt, taken on to finance acquisitions and such. Like that hasn't worked out. It was too onerous. We're more than comfortable carrying 1x EBITDA at this -- in the medium term, certainly. So hopefully, that answers the question.

Jonathan Bunting executive
#22

Okay. There's a question from Peter D in terms of what are the key inflation risks for the business. I'm very happy to pick that one up. So if you look at our warehousing and final mile distribution, we charge our retail customers, what we call delivery service charge for that service. So we deliver 7 days a week, 364 days of the year. That is index-linked. And therefore, should costs go up in the overall sector, that would be reflected in the cost that we -- in the prices that we charge our customers. From an overall inflationary perspective, we're not particularly exposed. We're not exposed to fuel, for example. So it's not something that typically has a material impact on our business. Clearly, if there was a change of policy at government and all of a sudden, the minimum wage was to massively increase beyond what we're all forecasting, then that would be outside of our plan. But they're probably -- that's probably the key position.

Tony Grace executive
#23

Thanks, Jon. [ Angie ], how do you anticipate your interest rate will fall as you go to 1x EBITDA with further savings on interest rate? Under the current facility of the, as I said already, the interest rate margin, the maximum is 5.5%, 6% sometime on term loan B actually. But that -- then even can come down across the piece to the lowest level of 3.5%. We're heading towards that as best as we can by managing performance, it's simple as that. And doing the right things with cash margin.

Jonathan Bunting executive
#24

And I think that pretty much takes us through the questions, guys, if there's anything further, I think that we've pretty much...

Tony Grace executive
#25

There's one interesting one at the bottom, Jon, so if we can just take that.

Jonathan Bunting executive
#26

Absolutely.

Tony Grace executive
#27

It comes from [ Angie ] again. The company has -- sorry, the trustee has already completed the buyout, so now all the risk and liability sits with the insurance company and they will pay the assets. And having done that, there is a cash surplus of about GBP 16 million sitting there at the moment. Some expenses will have to be paid before the trust is wound up completely and before things can be -- any surplus can be passed to the company. You may well know that any such surpluses attract tax rate of 35%. And therefore, GBP 16 million, we believe, could be somewhere between GBP 8 million and GBP 10 million for the company in the event of the consultation with members, which is in progress at the moment, and a successful and regulatory approval is received from the pension regulator. So it's there. It's real. The trustee has indicated they will pay to the company, but there's a few hurdles to go through -- to go over, sorry.

Unknown Executive executive
#28

Fantastic. Thank you very much, indeed. Jon and Tony, thank you very much indeed for addressing those questions from investors this morning. And of course, anything further that comes through, you have the ability to review those, and can publish responses where appropriate to do so. Jon, perhaps I could just ask you for a few final words to wrap up before we redirect and let -- to give you guys some feet there.

Jonathan Bunting executive
#29

Sure. I mean, I think, firstly, thank you to everyone who's taken the time to listen to us this morning. We very much appreciate that. Hope you found the presentation honest and authentic, and you've got a good understanding now of our business. What I would say to you is that this is not a complicated business, and it's not a volatile business. And we've worked very, very hard over the last decade to make sure that was the case. And I personally have been the Managing Director of Smiths News wholesale since 2012. And if you look at our track record from there until now, we've always delivered our numbers. And since Tony and I became the management team looking after plc, we've also delivered our numbers. And what I would ask is that you look at our stock again with fresh eyes, listen to everything we've said to you today around how well we've traded through what has been a very, very challenging period for the whole economy. And then look at our capital management policy and look at the relative share price. And just think again as to whether we might be a good home for someone who's looking to invest. So thank you very much for your time, and hopefully, we can do this again in November when we're presenting our full year results.

Unknown Executive executive
#30

That's fantastic. Jon, Tony, thanks again for updating investors today. Can I please ask investors not to close the session. It should be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback. Your feedback is important to the company so if you can take a few moments to submit it. And on behalf of the management team at Smiths News plc, I'd like to thank you very much for attending today's presentation. That concludes today's session. Thank you.

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