Subex Limited (532348) Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Madhuri, moderator for the conference call. Welcome to Subex Limited Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Prateek. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Madhuri. Good morning to everyone who have joined the earnings call for the quarter ended June 30, 2026. I would like to introduce the members of the management who are present for the call; Ms. Nisha Dutt, Managing Director and CEO; Mr. Sumit Kumar, CFO; Mr. Harsha Angeri, Head Corporate Strategy and AI; and Mr. Ramu Akkili, Company Secretary and Compliance Officer. I would like to start the conference call by going through the safe harbor clause. Such statements in the presentation concerning our future growth prospects are forward-looking statements, which involve several risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in such forward looking statements. These risks and uncertainties relating to the statements include, but are not limited to, fluctuations in earnings, our ability to successfully integrate acquisition, competition in our areas of business, client concentration, liability for damages in our contracts, withdrawal of tax incentives, political instability, unauthorized use of intellectual property and general economic conditions affecting our industry. With this, I now hand over the call to Nisha Dutt to take it forward. Over to you, Nisha.

Thank you, Prateek. I'm audible, right? Loud and clear? Okay. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Q1 earnings call. Thank you for joining us today. So, a lot of you joined us for AGM, and you know that we concluded our AGM the day before. And I would first like to start off by thanking all our shareholders for the confidence that they have placed in the management team and in me personally. So, that trust means a great deal to me, and it's a responsibility that I certainly do not take lightly. And it is one that we intend to earn through consistent execution. Over the last 3 years, our objectives have been very clear. We set out to simplify the business, sharpen our strategic focus, restore profitability, strengthen our balance sheet and build a more disciplined organization. And now I believe that, that foundation is firmly in place. So, FY '27 for me represents the beginning of the next phase. And this conversation is no longer about whether Subex can complete its turnaround. The conversation now is whether we can translate that strong foundation that we have set into consistent and sustainable growth. And that is the mandate that we have set for ourselves this year. And every decision that we will make in this company will be aligned to that objective squarely. So with that, let me walk you through how we fared in the first quarter. So, we are encouraged by the start that we have made for this year. Revenue for the quarter grew 8.9% sequentially and 19.7% over the corresponding quarter last year. EBITDA margin was at 21.2%, while PAT stood at 17.9%. Equally important, EBITDA has now grown four-fold compared to same quarter last year, if you compare. So, these results to me are not an outcome of a single large deal or a one-time event. In fact, they are a cumulative impact of the work that has gone into business over the past several years. So, what have we done? And some of you who have been with us in this journey know this. We have greater operational discipline in the company now. We have improved execution of our order backlog. We have tighter cost management, and we have been achieving our key billing milestones consistently. And we also ended the quarter with cash and cash equivalents of INR 184.8 crores, which further strengthens our balance sheet and gives us flexibility to invest in the future. But I do -- while I say these results, I also want to set the expectations a little appropriately. While as management, we are really pleased with the profitability that we have delivered this quarter, I do see these margins somewhat differently. They demonstrate the earnings potential of a business when the fundamentals are operating really well. So over the last 3 years, we have built a more disciplined organization, right? So, this quarter reflects what that foundation is capable of delivering. But at the same time, I'd like to remind everyone that FY '27 to me is about accelerating growth. So as opportunities present themselves, we will continue to invest in product innovation, AI capabilities, customer-facing teams and delivery excellence. So, our objective overall, the way we see this is not to maximize short-term margins. It is to maintain a healthy margin structure while making disciplined investments that actually creates greater long-term shareholder value. And I think believing this -- and I believe that striking this balance is the right way to build a stronger company. And one area that I'm particularly encouraged by is Partner Ecosystem Management. As some of you know, that's one of our products. I mean, a lot of you know us for revenue assurance and fraud management and likely so, but there is also a third product that we are equally proud of, which is Partner Ecosystem Management, also known as wholesale billing in telco environment. So, I've always believed when we joined that PEM and we kind of call it PEM internally, was strategically important business to us that had not received the level of investment that it deserved actually. So over the past few years, we have rebuilt the team, we have strengthened the product road map, and we have renewed our focus on that market. And what we have seen as a result of that is that these investments are now beginning to show. So, some of the big deal announcements that we did last year for some of you who remember, were actually in this area in PEM. So, now we are starting to see a stronger deal flow in this area. So the renewal that we secured this quarter, together with the opportunities that we are seeing in the pipeline give us the confidence that this PEM can actually be an important contributor to our growth story. So, I wanted to particularly highlight this because usually, the story becomes RAFM, but there is an equally third, equally important component setting in our story right now. And commercially, this quarter reinforces our confidence that strategy -- the ones that we have been pursuing is gaining traction. We renewed our managed services and software license agreement with a Tier 1 operator in Middle East. I know a lot of you have had questions about Middle East. There might be slowdown. But again, we went and we actually secured our renewal. We secured new business assurance and fraud management with a leading operator in Europe last quarter. We also renewed our PEM, Partner Ecosystem Management engagement with a Tier 1 operator in Asia Pacific. So, what gives me confidence is that this is not simply individual wins, but what they collectively represent for us and our portfolio. Across geographies, across customers, we continue to invest on our core platform, which also tells us that they are sort of -- they believe in our story and they are renewing with us. So, that's a big vote of confidence that customers are actually showing us. Alongside customer engagements, we continue to strengthen our market presence during the quarter. We participated in MVNO Nation. This specifically happens for MVNOs, not MNOs. There, we engage directly with operators, industry stakeholders. We also took part in GSMA Fraud and Security Group meetings in Singapore. We have contributed to industry leaders, and we also continue to contribute to the fraud standards in the industry. So, these engagements are important because they deepen our customer relationships, they strengthen our market positioning and they reinforce our role in shaping conversations across the future around the future of telecom operations. These, in a sense, also position us as thought leaders in some of these spaces. And that's one of the reasons why we make sure that we attend all the important conferences where content is being discussed and we contribute on the front foot in some of these. This quarter also marked the beginning of our non-deal roadshow, NDR. Some of you have been a part of that. So, I found these conversations -- because I hit the market after 3 years actually to do the first NDR. So, I found these conversations particularly valuable because they reflected how investors' perception of Subex has evolved. And 2 years ago, I know that when I joined, questions centered around whether the turnaround was possible. But today, I felt the questions are very different for us. Investors wanted to understand how we sustain growth, how we allocate capital, how are we going to continue to expand margins over time and how consistently can we execute against our commitments. And I welcome that change. That change in conversation tells me that something is working here, and we are delivering. It also tells me that conversation has moved away from recovery to performance, and that's exactly where it should be and it is precisely where our focus lies today. On people front, we completed FY '26 performance and promotion cycle during the quarter. So building a growth business ultimately depends on building a stronger organization and recognizing performance, investing in capability and continuing to develop our talent remain important priorities as we scale. So, let me briefly cover the consolidated financial results for Q1. All numbers that I will speak now are in INR. Revenue for the quarter stood at INR 79.45 crores as against INR 72.96 crores in the previous quarter. EBITDA for the quarter was at INR 16.87 crores compared to INR 10.58 crores in the previous quarter. Normalized PAT for the quarter stood at INR 16.09 crores compared to INR 11.51 crores in the previous quarter. And PAT for the quarter stood at INR 14.22 crores compared to INR 9.93 crores, including exceptional items in the previous quarter. But before I conclude, let me leave you with one thought. The last 3 years were about building the -- rebuilding the business. The years ahead of us are about proving that we can grow it consistently. One quarter does not define a year, and I know that, but it can certainly establish a direction. We believe this quarter demonstrates that the business is moving in the right direction. We have stronger financial foundation. We have healthier profitability. We have deeper customer engagement, and we have a clear strategy for growth. So, I believe our task is now quite straightforward. We execute with consistency, we invest with discipline and we continue to create long-term shareholder value. Thank you once again for joining us today. I will now be happy to answer your questions. Back to you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Kiran Chheda.

Congratulations on a great set of numbers and the turnaround and the growth forward. Ma'am, when we met last time I had made a furnishing for capital readjustment. Has the Board given any thought to reducing the equity capital, writing it off against the losses that are pending so that we become a lean company and all the numbers then start looking good.

Thank you, Kiran. I think, good to speak to you again. And I remember that suggestion so fairly, and we did actually -- we discussed it in the Board meeting that we just concluded yesterday. So what we are going to do is we understand that some structural changes need to be made. Board is aware of that. The management is acutely aware that once the numbers start looking good, there are some structural balance sheet things that we must do. So, this is something that we will be -- we are going to consider. And as you can imagine, this is going to be a little bit of a long drawn process. We will appoint a consultant. We will figure out what's the best way to do it where we can protect all the shareholder interest. So, we will embark on this. And as you know, this will take some time for it to manifest because once we have a path forward, this will require Board approval, shareholder approval, NCLT. This is a song and dance. There is a little bit of a process here. But that said, this is strongly under consideration right now. So yes, the suggestion was great. I came back with it. We have discussed it. So, we'll act on it.

My second question is, has the Board considered rewarding you much better than what they are up till now considering your performance in the company?

I just wish that you were there in my performance appraisal. No, thank you. So, I mean, this is a lot coming from a shareholder because -- but we are discussing. So, one of the things that we are discussing is how do we meaningfully improve stake in the company for our core set of people. So, this is something again that Board has taken quite seriously. And there is a -- we are acting on that. Again, that's something that's not just under consideration. You will see action on that like within a few weeks. So, we have again taken that into consideration. Board is aware of this. So yes, I mean, we are on that track as well. But I want to invite you next time when we do this performance appraisal.

The next question comes from [ Patrick Messler ], an Individual Investor.

I have 2 questions. One is in terms of executable order pipeline for this year, what size of funnel are we working on, which is executable for this year? Second is in terms of new order wins or sign-ups, what's the total pending order wins that we have for billing over a period of whatever year, I mean, contracts will be signed for 3 years, 5 years, et cetera. So, what are those total order wins that we already have?

Okay. So are those your questions? Are those two your questions?

Yes.

Yes, yes. Okay. So in terms of size of funnel, typically, the way we work in Subex or the way I would say enterprise sales work, right, enterprise business work, we aim for at least 3 to 4x pipeline. So, there is 3 ways, right? There is something called a pipeline, which is in the unqualified, qualified. There is a qualified pipeline. And then there is actually the order intake that we do and that converts to revenue. That's typically the cycle that we follow. So, our aim at any point of time and as per how Board also actually judges management and keeps us on track is that at any point of time, whatever my order intake target is for the year, I need to have at least 3x of that qualified pipeline, I should be running at any point of time. So rest assured, at any point of time, our pipeline is around 3x. So when you speak about the funnel, and I'm talking about qualified, not just unqualified, qualified pipeline is around 3 to 4x. Unqualified and all that, which you still need to qualify is much, much larger, as you can imagine. But broadly what matters is qualified pipeline. So, that's typically the pipeline that we run. In terms of orders, we -- so again, one thing that I wanted to clarify is that we don't announce every order that we win in the company because it's not required. Even by compliance standards, we are only required to announce either the new logos, significant deals, material deals or a certain flavor of the deals. We don't actually announce every renewal, everything that we do, right, through the year. And if you remember, last year, just the deals that we announced in the market, last financial, they were in the range of -- and again, I might be a little bit off, but it was to the tune of $18 million to $20 million is what we announced. So, obviously, the actual pipeline will be greater than that. And our revenue, the composition of revenue, the way we work is 70% of our revenue is recurring in any given year. So if I'm hitting, let's say, $10 million, you are rest assured that $7 million I already had in the bag when I started the year. So, this is how we kind of go through the year and 30% is what we win in the year and we convert some part of it. So if it's a 3-year contract, we convert some part of it and recognize 30% of that in the year. So, that's how typically our funnel works. So in terms of pending, you will -- so it's a different stage, right? So if I won a 3-year contract, let's say, last year, I may be executing 25% of it this year. And then it goes into managed services or license agreement. So, every contract looks typically a little different. But in any given year, 70% recurring and for the deals that we announced last year, let's say, you can assume that we are going to take in probably 30% to 40% of that value this year. So, that's typically that we will consider. That becomes a part of our backlog that we enter the year with. So, that's typically how our revenue cycle works. I'm happy to expand on it, but this is what it is.

I wanted a specific number, not the expansion.

Number I can't say.

I'm familiar with the expansion. I'm asking of the funnel, not the order.

You can imagine.

I'm a very large retail shareholder who has been holding your share for the last 15 years. Last time also in one of the conference calls, I was asking you for specific answers and we were getting generic answers. Just on funnel and how it works pretty familiar with it, the stages of the sales life cycle, et cetera.

So Patrick, as you can imagine, these calls are recorded. They are recorded not just for our shareholders. They are also recorded for the purposes of competition in the market, right? We are listed. All my competition that I compete with in the market is private. Every single company that I compete with in the market is private. Nobody else is listed. Subex is the only one that's listed in top 4 competitors that I work with. So, some of these numbers by their nature are sensitive to us. So, this is sensitive information. If there is a one-on-one you want to come and meet us separately in office, I'm happy to speak to some of this separately. But on a call, it's sensitive information. And hence, my hesitation is not that I can't give you the number. My hesitation is it's competitive. This information is competitive. And hence, I hesitate to give it. It is not something I can disclose actually.

I'll be very straight with you. Your presentation does not give any direction on the business.

Okay.

I want direction.

What kind of direction would you like?

Growth.

Are you asking me -- growth, like I already said, right, we are on the trajectory to growth. This year, we have already seen it's near double digit, right? We are already trending to that growth. And I have committed and I think I've been committing for the last few quarters that growth is the focus. And FY '27, we are going to be squarely focused on growth. And we are going to -- that is where the whole management effort is to deliver growth to shareholders this year because I think we have done a decent job on the bottom line. We have bottom line quite under control right now. What we need to do is build the top line, and we are squarely focused on that. Now, will I deliver double-digit growth or will I do high single digits? That remains to be seen. But at least where we are -- at least aspirationally, what we want to do is obviously much bigger for the shareholders. And you can imagine some of the forward-looking guidance and all that cannot be given in earnings call.

No, we are talking -- we are a $20 billion company. No, not million. I'm talking about answers that I'm hearing. We are a $20 billion company. We are a small company.

Patrick, the rules don't change, whether I'm a $1 million company, $1 billion company. The rules of disclosure to the market....

I'm not talking about disclosure. I'm speaking about growth trajectory. I'm speaking about growth trajectory, not disclosure.

Growth trajectory again, I have been through this for 3 years. I know where I started. And I know what I need to deliver to make shareholders happy. I'm acutely aware of that. And when we went to NDRs, I got direct feedback from a lot of people on what they expect to see. Double-digit growth, we need to see this kind of sustainable growth. So, I have all the feedback, and we are working towards it. So if you think that aspirationally, company is still going to do some anemic growth, that's not the goal here. We don't want to deliver anemic growth. So, that's not the goal.

At the base, we are as a company for the last 3 years and for the last 3 years that you have been there, honestly speaking, by now after holding the share for 15 years, my expectation is given AI adoption, et cetera, there should be a minimum growth of 50% year-on-year on the top line. That's my expectation.

Okay. I'am not going to comment on that, but I would also encourage you to go and look at the other telco vendors, what their growth rates have been. I will encourage you to look at telco industry itself, what the growth rates have been at. So since you are invested in this industry, since you have been a long-term shareholder, since you have been following us for a while, I would encourage you to please go and look at the comparables in the industry. And then -- because I would also love to see another vendor that's growing at 50% right now. So I would -- it's not that aspirationally we don't want to do that. But we also have to be grounded at the reality of where we are. And I want to be sure that I give you the right guidance.

The next question comes from [ Ajay Desai ] from [ Jayant Enterprise ].

Nisha, congratulations on getting -- now my question was to get a clarity on this ESOP thing, which is announced. So, like when and at what price that it will happen or which market purchase, plus when they will do, if you can throw some more light on that?

Ajay, so the way -- so we have the approval for ESOP. You must have seen the announcement yesterday. So, what we are going to do is, obviously, there are some steps to this. We are going to send it to the shareholders for their approval, which is the postal ballot, so it will take a month or so from the day we do postal ballot. I think Ramu probably has a better time line than me. But I think within 2 weeks, we should be triggering postal ballot for this. Once we have the shareholder approval, what we will do is, then we will start acquiring from the market. And when we have shareholder approval is when we will decide or we build the best calculation for at what price we acquire actually. So, we'll do that calculation and we will acquire. So it's not decided, decided by whatever the share has been trading at for the last 60 days. So, there is a calculation there. Again, I can share that with you separately. Honestly, I don't have the number right now. But the way compliance works and Ramu can probably clarify this is we have taken the approval for 5%. But in a given year, in a given financial year, we are not allowed to acquire more than 2%. 2% is a cap on which we cannot exceed that. So, we will execute the 2%. The moment we have the approval, we have the share price, then we will acquire within, let's say, a quarter or so. We will acquire 2% or so. That's our plan. In a year, we can only do 2%, and we'll max out that cap. So that's the plan right now. I think in terms of time line, I am seeing that this should be executed at around Q3, given that we are going to go through postal ballot approval and all that. In Q3, we should be executing to this. And once we execute and acquire the shares, there is, again, a compliance that requires us to make sure that people who have to be awarded must be awarded within the 6 months' time frame. Again, Ramu, you have to correct me if I'm wrong here, but 6 months' time frame, we have to allocate it to the people that we want to give it to. So, that will happen in the subsequent Board Meeting. We'll take the recommendations to the Board and we'll get it allocated. So, that's typically the process. So, I'm expecting Q3 is when you should see us starting to acquire from the market. Ramu, anything?

Yes, for that, we may execute in Q3 or we may sent to the full financial year basis the convenient from the company.

Yes. Because we take loan from the company.

Yes, yes.

The next question comes from Harshit Singhania from RoboCapital.

So, congratulations on a great set of numbers. So, I'm like quite new to the company. So, just wanted to understand like we have really grown our EBITDA margins. So, where do we see them stabilizing around like? So, we have quite a number of contracts. So are these around similar margins? Or how much is the variance in the margins?

So typically, we have a threshold below which we don't pick up contracts in the market, right? So that ensures a certain profitability. But margins are not just a reflection of what we sell our contracts at. So, there is that -- the actual EBITDA margin has a few other components. So one is, of course, the COGS part of it, which is what we sell our contracts at and at what margin can we deliver because let's assume that I sell at x percent. I actually sold to a customer that 10% or so. Then there is -- it's possible for me to extract further margins from my delivery efficiencies, right? So, we will expand something else also on additional. On top of that, there are other costs. There are manpower costs. There are facilities costs. So, there is a lot of other costs that we also control, operational OpEx, right? There are other OpEx items that we control, debt-to-EBITDA margin. So typically, we make sure that contracts are not sold below a certain threshold. In every geography, we have a different threshold set because there are geographies that can give you better margins than others. So, that's how typically our margin structure works. In terms of expansion of margin, like I was mentioning even in my opening remarks, see, we have a path to expansion of margin. We have delivered it this quarter. But I also wanted to just caution everyone that it's not that we can't expand margin, but I think the need of the business right now is that we reinvest for growth and for future. For me to create longer-term value, it's more important for me to make sure that my products are well supported and I have a robust road map for that. And that's why I wanted to make sure that I don't get into the race of margin expansion indefinitely. What I want to do is we want to get to a good margin which we have and then also plow back some money into reinvestment actually of the company of some growth initiatives that I feel that we absolutely need to have, especially around AI and all that. So, we are going to do that. So, you should expect robust margins. But again, my thing will be not that we cannot expand margin, but I think we need to reinvest some of the money. We need to take and plow it back into business. So, that's broadly my guidance or my thinking on how we will grow margin this year.

Ma'am, completely fair point. And I just want to ask like -- so are these levels like stable? I'm not asking for aggressive margin expansion.

Stable. It should be in the mid. It should be in this ballpark. Let me put it that way. It should be in the ballpark.

So, mid- to high teens we can expect?

Don't ask me for a specific number in this range. I mean, obviously, you will see the margin expansion from where we closed the year. So definitely, as I taste growth, I'm not going to cap margins where they were. So, margin expansion is something that we are looking at. But yes, a reasonable margin expansion that gives us room to reinvest is more my take at this point of time and my ask of shareholders also that -- yes, ask for your understanding on this.

Okay. And just to get a better understanding, so 70% of our revenue is recurring and the 30% that comes in is the contract that we get in the current year, which is in the working here? So is that 30% is where the main growth can be expected to come from and the operation efficiency?

Actually, not necessarily in the sense that 30% is very important because that tells me what I will do next year. So, 30% -- while this year, it's 30%, for next year, it will become a part of the 70% that I will do a backlog for the next year, right? So it's very important from a, I would say, forward-looking perspective, right, because order intake is a lead indicator of our revenues. So from that perspective, it's very important for me to do well in that 30% bucket. It's not so much for 30% of this year. For me, it's the 70% that will contribute to the 70% of next year backlog. So from that perspective, yes, you are right, it's important. And that's where our revenue expansion comes from, the newer wins. See, once you win something, then you are on a trajectory. We know how we will recognize revenues against that. So, that becomes -- that already gets baked into the plan. The newer things that you do definitely are the things that it's like a cherry on the top, right? That's the thing. So, we need to kind of make sure that we do a good business there. So, a lot of expansion comes from the new business. So in that sense, you're right.

Okay. And that's why I understand you're not...

The next question comes from [ Sanjot Kari ], an Individual Investor.

Congratulations, Nisha, and the team. Really --this is a good improvement after a long time and consistently compared to last quarter as well. So my question is, Nisha, you mentioned that a lot of orders are already won. Execution is going on. That is very important to really realize margins. So, how is the market scenario now? I mean, are we seeing that still there is a delay in order closures because we had, like, a good order announcement like 2, 3 months back. Since last 2 months, again, we have not seen. You do not mentioned every order you announced. But I just want to see how the order closures are happening and anything quite delayed from last quarter and this quarter will be getting closed on that?

So in terms of contracts, Sanjot -- first of all, thank you. So in terms of contract, Sanjot, we are seeing some -- some amount of slowdown we have started to see from Middle East given the situation. Now, no cancellations. And when I say delay, what's happening is that contracts are taking us longer to close, not the commercial negotiation. Actually, the legal T&Cs. So, those kind of things are taking us more than anticipated time these days because people are also becoming very careful about like liabilities that they sign up, LOLs, we call them. So there is a lot of negotiation that -- hard negotiation that we are having to do on some of these. So in terms of closure, I'm seeing -- I'm not seeing big delays. I'm not seeing like a quarter and all that delay, but I have seen like last quarter that Q1 that we closed, there are some contracts that I would have liked to close in Q1, but as we stand, we are going to close them this month. So, there has been a month forward, right? It shifted by a month. So, we are seeing some shifts like this. That has just -- what happens is that the war is in Middle East, but fact of the matter is everyone gets cautious around it, right? So, we are seeing some drag, I would say. I would not call it even a quarter delay, but yes, it's moving a month or 2 here and it's happening. So, some amount of delays are there, but nothing is lost. We haven't, like, lost any big deal and all that right now. But people are taking their own time to make decisions. So, there is some amount of that drag as well to be honest.

Sure. And how the markets in U.S. and Europe looks like? I mean, is it getting better?

Europe is -- U.S. is actually better. I think Europe is also okay. Where we are seeing caution is obviously from Middle East, and we are seeing some cautious buying or, I would say, a little extended time lines even from Asia Pacific. We are starting to see some sort of delayed time lines even from APAC region. So, that is the thing. Otherwise, I think Africa, again, by nature of the way business works in Africa, they are -- they do take a long time to grow the business. So it's generally speaking, a little bit of a slower market. So, Africa has simply been slowing down. Middle East, for reasons known to everyone here is becoming a little slower. I think APAC is taking a little bit more time in my opinion, but what gives me comfort is that nothing is lost. People are actually -- so it's all getting delayed in legal negotiations and all that, which I think from my perspective, I am okay delaying it by a month as long as we make sure that legally we are doing the watertight contracts. So, I'm more focused on -- we need a good contract in place instead of I need it on July 31. So, that is acceptable to me at this point of time, but nothing is lost. You should be looking forward to hearing some announcements and all that in the coming quarters. So, we are working towards that. We will hear about it soon.

Sure. And just last point. Definitely, it's a good improvement to top line as well as bottom line and hope we go towards -- consistently towards double-digit growth as well as very soon we reach INR 100 crores revenue per quarter. So wishing you all the best.

Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from [ Abhishek Pali ], an Individual Investor.

A couple of questions for you, Nisha. The first is from contract signing to subscription revenue, that window, right, do you have any metrics that you are tracking? And I think that window is substantial and I've been asking around this in the previous quarters as well. So, would you be able to share some kind of a number and if we have done work on shortening that window? And to what extent have we shortened it and what's the scope? If you can give some color about it, it would help.

Typically, our -- Abhishek, our contract signing to implementation to subscription, we have been sort of -- every product has a different window in terms of -- when I say every product, I mean HyperSense, ROC, every product has a different window depending -- again, just to put some caveats around it, every product, depending on the complexity of the implementation that we are doing. Some implementations are very large and complex, so they take longer time to implement. And then there are some, which are very plain-vanilla standard out-of-the-box sort of thing. So obviously, what we are doing is, I think in terms of product, our product has become extraordinarily, I think, we have made huge strides in that. So it's quite stable. In terms of R&D investments, we are looking at reducing the time line. But if I were to give you a specific number, so it typically takes from contract signing. So, this includes our implementation, go-live and all that. Typically, we have seen it can take 4 to 5 quarters between when you will sign a contract and you will start seeing the subscription revenue. But that does not mean that we don't have revenue during this time, right? Even when we are implementing, we have a lot of milestones, like we will have a BRD sign-off. We'll have an SSD sign-off. So, there are implementation milestones that let us take revenue even while we are executing or implementing the project. But this is -- this time line is not specific to us. This is generally -- typically a cycle of the contract. But that said, internally, what we have done and our endeavor this year and last year has been to reduce. So, my goal or my -- the goalpost that I've given to my team is that we need to bring this time line down by a quarter. So a quarter, I feel that if we are able to crash from 5 quarters to 4 quarters in projects where we are doing in 4 quarters to 3 quarters, that will give us enormous leverage in terms of revenues. So our goal is 1 quarter, but I can also tell you that we just implemented one project recently, which was done almost, I think, 45 days ahead of time we were able to close the project. So are we there at a quarter? Not yet. But 45 days gain that we have made actually. So, we are starting to measure this. And I'm seeing on an average, we are able to gain almost a month to 45 days in our implementation cycle. And we are going to sort of extend that and see if we can get it to a quarter. But typically, that's what our -- a lot of internal initiatives that we are running are around this part that can we use live business, can we use reusability? So, we are working on a bunch of initiatives just to crash this time line. So if that answers your question.

Yes. Second question. I need the [ time line ] for INR 400 crores top line? We are waiting for that. Yes, I know Ramu is going to give you....

[Foreign Language]

Yes. I mean, I'm just saying that if you can give us when do you realistically...

I see that. Realistically, it should be in few -- I mean, it should be in few quarters, definitely. Because like I said, a lot of our business is backlog driven, right? [Foreign Language] I mean, I know what my backlog is for this year. So, I know my backlog, I know what I need to do in the year. I already know how my contracts are shaping up in Q1. So, obviously, I can't discuss all that on the call, but I have a good view of what it is going to be. And I feel that we will get to that number. We'll get to -- I have a line of sight. I could not have said that. I don't have -- I mean, last year, if you had asked me, I would say that I'm aspiring towards it. But today, I can tell you that I have some line of sight. So if all the pieces fall like I want them to, and we are working towards it, it should happen. So, just give us a few quarters, it should happen.