Veranda Learning Solutions Limited (VERANDA) Earnings Call Transcript

So hi, everyone. And my name is Soumya Chhajed, and I'm working as research analyst at Go India Advisors. From our team, we also have Mr. Rakesh Arora and Sheetal Khanduja. So a lot of you must have been knowing that we introduced these CDs, featuring our small and mid-cap companies, which has the capability to scale up as the industry changes and has a very differentiated business model. And just to continue with that, we -- in today's session, we have a client Veranda Learning Solutions Limited. It's an emerging leader in the education sector, providing end-to-end solutions in the diverse segment with a staggering 124% Y-o-Y revenue growth and an impressive EBITDA of INR 62 crores and EBITDA margin of 17%. The company is redefining the future of education in India. So let me take a moment and give you a brief introduction about the management. So first, we have Mr. Suresh Kalpathi, the Executive Chairman of Veranda. He holds B.Tech. Degree from IIT Madras and MS from Clemson University with expertise in software development, education and business integration. He has been recognized as an Outstanding Entrepreneur of the Year in 1999. He is also an active venture capitalist, an angel investor, and a very inspirational motivator. And he always thinks out of the box, and so we welcome you, sir. Next up, we also have Ms. Saradha Govindarajan, the CFO, holding more than 11 years of experience in the areas of finance, strategy and operations. She has also completed MBA from XLRI, Jamshedpur. And last but not the least, we have Mr. Aditya Malik, the Group COO, whose operation and excellence and the focus in this -- on the scalability are the key drivers, expanding the Veranda's success. So let me give you a brief introduction about the company. So with its diversified education platform, Veranda delivers its services through online, offline and in blended formats across different segments, as you can see over the screen. This strategic approach has contributed to an impressive revenue CAGR of 397% over 3-year period from FY '21 to FY '24. Now talking about the diverse segments, including Academics, Commerce Test Prep, Government Test Prep and Vocational. So basically, you can see they're catering to the entire student life cycle, which is K-12 to post-schooling education to professional development, et cetera. And what's really setting them apart is the brands that they own. We have a diversified platform with the marquee brand name and they are leveraging a strong educational foundation and skilled workforce. They have turned their vision to reality. And with an outcome-oriented approach helping 100 students to secure ranks each year. So for better understanding and discussion, let's open the floor for the questions. And I request Rakesh sir, to moderate for the further session.

Thank you, Soumya. Welcome Suresh ji and the team. Suresh ji, first of all, I'd like to start with how did you really think of this initiative? And what was your thought process about establishing Veranda?

Thank you. Thank you, Rakesh ji. I started actually my career in software education. So my earlier company was SSI Limited, started in '91, built it very significantly, acquired Aptech subsequently and exited in 2007. During all those years of experience, one of the things that really stood out for me and especially after what we saw the dotcom bust that happened in 2000. While we were market leaders in software education, because we had a single point focus, when the software industry took a hit, we took a broad side hit though we were industry leaders. Veranda was set up as a platform, as your person mentioned, in diversify fields, predominantly to do twrite-off key things. The first was to extend the lifetime value of a customer. So today, we exist from almost from school to college to coaching to professional upskilling post job and during their job for career upgrading. The second one was, because we are present in multiple areas of education, the company has got a lot more resilience to any changes that happen. So when the software industry went soft about a couple of years ago, when even bellwethers and market leaders stop accruing to their existing workforce, one part of our business was challenged, but the rest of the business was doing fundamentally very well. And that ensures Veranda from an overall perspective continue to grow and deliver to its promise. I think those are really the key reasons. Of course, education has always been my passion. So it's great to be engaged in building something where your passion is also coinciding.

Sir, let's talk about a little bit about the whole scope of things. We saw in the presentation that we are covering the whole gamut from lower KG to colleges to vocational training to government test preparation. So what is the opportunity size according to you? And do we have any kind of market share currently that we can talk about?

Saradha, do you want to take it?

Yes. So the first segment that we operate in, which is government test prep, as you rightly pointed out, Veranda K-12, it's our academic segment. And we are now catering to six schools in this segment. And the market size is about 45,000 to 50,000 schools persist in CBSE matriculation, private-run State Board, IB, and Cambridge. So as a service provider, as you would appreciate, we have a huge headroom for growth in the Veranda K-12 space. We also cater to colleges. We have about 16 colleges that we are a service provider to in Bangalore and Hyderabad, and I don't even need to go into the number of colleges that exist in India. The next segment that we operate in is the government test prep segment, which is basically SSC, UPSC, railways, banks, government banks, so on and so forth. In that, the market study that we did, the commercial diligence places the market size upward of INR 3,000 crores to INR 4,000 crores. And today, our target in this -- our market share, as you would speak is about, we are at about INR 100 crores, INR 150-odd crores in revenue out of this market size. So again, a huge scope of growth there. Then we talked about government test prep. You had also combined in the $1.5 billion that you were showcasing here, Mr. Rakesh, you've combined government and commerce test prep, I was just trying to split it up and give you the exact market size. The other market that we operate in, which is the higher education market, vocational, which is as you have here, in this you're showcasing the presentation, it's about $50-odd billion. But again, this market is very segmented. And we are present across all these segments and the opportunity size at this point is upward of $50 billion.

Market that we are targeting -- Tell us a little bit about the USP that we have as compared to our competition. And what is our competition actually in these segments?

Let me sort of -- the first is a K-12, in taking in an asset-light model, existing schools, but helping them improve significantly on their performance. The initial set of more than 500 people driving our growth into the school space, where we are seeing the big opportunity for the last so many years, especially post COVID in the last 5 years, the expectations of parents have significantly changed, where schools used to be very sticky businesses as people saw, where kids get promoted from fourth to fifth and fifth to sixth, and it was happening periodically, today the expectations have completely changed. Parents want to know if you teach them artificial intelligence and design thinking from first standard onwards. They want to understand what type of different types of sports would my kid be exposed to? Do you do career mapping? Do you do counseling? Do you do integration for different career progression for me? What used to be just NEET and JEE for becoming a doctor or an engineer, today people want to know if you do plan to become a lawyer, a CA foundation, if I want to become a finance professional, if I want to become a diplomat. The expectation of the parents is not just stops here, but they also want to know if you will give them counseling on how they can go abroad, if my child should pursue undergraduate education overseas. And all of them have become base expectations even in Tier 2 and some of the Tier 3 towns in India. So schools, which are stand-alone schools that we are finding, with trustees who thought it was business as usual are finding it very challenged. Some of the trustees have become old. They are not able to find transition on to their children, who are no more interested in running a stand-alone school. And these are schools where we go in and help them operationally significantly improve efficiencies to the benefit of themselves and of course, accruing benefits to us. So for us, in the K-12 segment, that's a big USP because we have almost nationally leading brands in each one of the space. So if somebody wants to do CA Foundation, it comes to them from J.K. Shah classes, who are arguably the best and the most leading in the country. So we go into small towns, we give them the complete suite of things that meets the parent's expectations. And it is not just an ensemble of very mediocre products that covers the entire range, but these are some of the nationally leading products that comes to the smallest of towns. So in the K-12 space, we see huge opportunities. That's our significant USP of having built such a diversified model for business. The second one is government test prep. Today, we are leaders in most of the southern states. The government test prep market, just to give in terms of size, while the number of people who write NEET and JEE in India amounts to probably INR 25 lakhs to INR 30 lakhs nationally. The number of people who write the State Public Service Commission exam in a state like Tamil Nadu alone, is about 27 lakhs. So it's a very large market that we can grow into. Today, we are leaders in most of the southern states, and we want to expand this going national. Because if you look at the government test prep, it's a market that's got lots of regional players, no national players. Similar is the case with our commerce test prep, which is being led by a brand -- iconic brand like J.K. Shah classes and today, there is no #1 player nationally for commerce. And we come with a nationally leading brand in each one of these spaces. So that's pretty much our USP and it plays to a strength of having built a diversified platform.

Wondreful, sir. So basically, we have very credible brands and we are taking them to various parts of the country. So we are very strong in Southern India, but slowly and surely, we are going to be pan-India player. And that is what I think the initiative is. So Suresh ji, let's start with the Academic first. I just want to understand the K-12 initiative that we have. How many schools are there that we are currently managing? And if you can give us some a little bit about the economics of this business?

Currently, we manage five K-12 schools which are CBSE, two Cambridge International schools. We also manage close to 20 of junior colleges, which is 11th and 12th.

This is under Tapasya brand, right? Or is it under the K-12?

It's under the Tapasya brand. And this is all in the southern states, predominantly in Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Andhra. As I mentioned, currently, our team in the K-12 space is over 500 people. We are one of the associate partners for Cambridge in India apart from British Council themselves. We are the only other partner for Cambridge for their international school expansion in India. So that gives us another strength as we go and discuss with partners having been chosen as the only one in India to associate with Cambridge. The demand, as I mentioned earlier from parents across that it has spread nationally, given with the levels of affluence and the development in the country, today it requires such a diversified player to be able to provide all of them from a single operating company. And that's what we bring to our K-12. Again, most of them are stand-alone schools. Today, we're being challenged, because there are other brands or schools like K12 Techno, or VIBGYOR, or an Orchid or Narayana or Chaitanya, all of whom are expanding and all of them are expanding off a fairly strong and credible academic base. And they need partners, and we basically go in, help them revamp, rejuvenate and make them cutting edge. So that's -- we currently have multiple schools in the pipeline where the trustees are willing to come on board and some of them we expect and people wait for this good time to sign and stuff like that. But we are standing -- we are finding these pipelines across the country.

Suresh ji, can you just take us through the economics? So when we go to a school, what are the economics that we are looking at per school?

So typically, I'll give you an example of a school that we've been talking to in Jaipur. Fantastic piece of land. The trustees own the land and the building. They make about INR 2 crores of profit. But that's a profit that's been coming down. The occupancy is about 50%. What we go in to them is they are not able to take the risks of the business. So we allow them to hold the property. We run the school as an operating school. We give them a lease rental of INR 2 crores, which is their current profit that they are making. So from that perspective, the business risk goes away, from an operator they become a landlord. We give them a lease rental of INR 2 crores. We give them a deposit of 6 months, which is about a INR 1 crore. We spend roughly about INR 75 lakhs, INR 80 lakhs a year for the next 3 years to basically to upgrade the school on soft CapEx, digital dashboards and bring them up to our standards. Typically after paying them the lease rental of INR 2 crores, over a period of the next 3 years, we increased our profitability beyond the INR 2 crores, which stays in Veranda's books to about INR 2 crores by the fourth year. So we typically look at targeting about INR 40 lakhs to INR 50 lakhs of profit over and above this INR 2 crores in the first year. We make about INR 1 crore in the second year, about INR 1.5 crores and make about INR 2 crores of profit from the fourth year onwards. And what this allows us to do is that we would have created this on a very, very investment-light model, where typically, we get back all the money invested by the fourth year, and we have a very profitable school as part of our network.

so Veranda, we currently -- in K-12, we have five schools, which is CBSE and two schools, which are Cambridge. So how many schools are we targeting for, say, current year or next year? If you can give us some idea. What is the pipeline of schools looking at the moment?

Currently, we have a pipeline possibly of about 30 to 40 schools.

30 to 40 schools? That's huge. Because we have only 5 to 7 schools right now.

Correct. We have a significant team and a large academic team. And that's what we have been building over the last 2, 3 years, is to build, as I mentioned, a very strong foundation from which we can grow. Today, we have built a platform. So we expect to be able to continue our momentum. Our target, at least from a business perspective for this segment, is to see if we can get into over the next 4 to 5 years if we can get into close to 200 schools in a similar asset-light model.

Okay. So you think there's enough market for 200 schools for us to target in 5 years?

Saradha, do you want to comment?

Yes. So Mr. Rakesh ji, it goes back to my first comment on how the market sizing is. If you leave out the government and government-aided schools, private schools alone, we have more than, as I was pointing out the number, about 50,000 schools in India at this point. So we are managing 6 and sir talked about 30 in the coming year. So even if you take a very conservative market share of about 5%, and we are talking about trustees who are growing old, whose children have settled abroad. So they have -- they don't have the next generation to continue. As you would appreciate, a talent pipeline in the school business is also a little constrained. Third, there are people who open the school as another -- just another business, good to have. They have -- they are mainstream in other businesses. So what happens after running it for a few years, they realize they've been able to take it to 30%, 40% occupancy. And once you cross the 50%, 60% occupancy is when it is a windfall in cash. So it takes some time, and they don't have the ability to progress it. And then, you look at competition, right? Now you have a lot of PE-funded schools and many people participating in the school business, going back to sir's point of Chaitanya, Narayana, there are many guys trying to provide a lot more services. So the individual stand-alone schools are very constrained in what they can offer to the children. Today, parents expect, right from STEM learning to sports development all coming under one umbrella. So when we come in as a service provider, the ability to take even a 5% market share is very easy, because we have the team, we have the services that we can provide. And the market size that's available is large.

Understood. Meaning, 200 would be even less than 0.5% market share. So we have enough headroom out there. So moving to.

Sir's idea in the next few years would be 100 and 500. I have comfortably covered 5% in that, just to be a...

Let's come to the second segment, which is Tapasya. You mentioned, we have few colleges at the moment. So what is our strategy there? And what are the economics? Is it similar to the school economics? Or is it different? And what are the opportunities there?

I'll answer part of it, Aditya would probably be able to come in, in terms of how the unit model works in the commerce space expansion. Again, we have a fairly large team through Tapasya, where we typically take them through commerce education in 11th and 12th and into college education and commerce through programs of BCom predominantly. Where our strength comes in is today, in terms of BCom, people look at it as a basic graduation qualification, people look to professional qualification like a CA, CMA, ACCA to really get those cutting-edge job. We combine it with J.K. Shah classes, to today, kids can go through a BCom, but have a faculty who is as good in teaching CA to help them teach the basic BCom subjects itself. So we sort of become the most premium BCom provider because today, almost everybody who does a CA or an EC CA or a CFA invariably looks for doing a graduation of BCom on the side just to ensure they can say that they are graduate, not so much in terms of learning. So the combination of top and cutting-edge CA coaching organization like J.K. Shah combined with the regular program like BCom, offers an integrated way in which the kids not only complete BCom, but also become professionally qualified in parallel. Aditya, you want to go through a unit economics of a new college?

Sure. I'll go through that. And also, parallelly, apart from what Suresh just mentioned, we have a huge opportunity to be the leading player in the commerce college segment. See, people are chasing a Btech or BE and Btech Computer Science, which has been a go to course for quite some time. Commerce space is vacant. So this is why one of the reasons why we are going aggressively in that space, because that gives us a runway and an early mover advantage to move forward. In terms of unit economics, we have 15 campuses today for both junior college and the undergrad degree, Bcom degree across Bangalore and Hyderabad. Clearly, there's a plan to expand more in Karnataka and a couple of other places, especially in Maharashtra and the other southern states so that we are able to leverage the trend of commerce education. In terms of unit economics, it takes us 3 years to recover the full capital investment, whatever we make. These are asset-light model. We don't own the buildings. We don't own the real estate. These are typical city colleges. We go in and run the colleges ourselves. And with -- 3 years is the payback period where we recover the entire investment what we have made. And fourth year onwards, it starts giving us the EBITDA.

Just to add a bit more color to it. We are targeting colleges. We have made a sort of a list of the next set of 40 colleges where we can potentially go into. Our investment in each college -- in a school, we sort of target about INR 3 crores of investment. In a college, it's about INR 4 crores of investment for making the lease deposit, soft CapEx, which is basically the computers, the tables, chairs, the digital dashboards, all of them, and for working capital during the first 2 to 3 years. So unlike a school, which is about INR 3 crores, it's INR 4 crores in an asset-light Bcom College type of model. One of the key reasons for our excitement and aggressive growth that we are seeing is, if you go to -- and this is an experience right across the country, not just in southern states, but if you go to any state beyond the top 30 to 40 commerce colleges, which are fairly well known and sought after. If you go just below that, there will be hundreds, if not thousands of commerce colleges where you don't get great faculty to teach and somebody who is teaching is a student who just finished Bcom and who is only there because he didn't get a job. Moment he gets a job, he leaves. So the kids basically get a certificate of a degree, but really no knowledge transfer at all. And for them to be able to get a BCom that is now taught by somebody who teaches CA to come to their small town and do a BCom course for them, clearly a, positions that as the most premium commerce college in that location. And beyond that, I think it will significantly help improve our coaching revenues, because these programs will have the option of being integrated. The kids can do a Vanilla Bcom or a Bcom with CA or a BCom with ACCA, where we get significant exemptions on ACCA papers, if they do our Bcom, they can combine it with CS. They can combine it with CMA. So they also get an option to integrate for a professional qualification. They get fantastic faculty, the best of breed to teach them Bcom if that is really all they want to pursue. And our target over the next 4 years is to see if we can add about a 100 commerce colleges in India. We have identified 40 locations. And we will use potentially the brand of J.K. Shah College of Commerce in doing this expansion across the country. Typically, after 3 years once the payback is done, we expect them to be a profitability of between INR 2.5 crores to INR 3 crores per year. And we expect to add about 100 colleges over the next 4 to 5 years. I think the potential is much larger, but that's pretty much the bandwidth at which we would like to grow.

Saradha ma'am, do you have any offline number on how many colleges -- like 50,000 schools you said, how many commerce colleges were there within the country to give us some idea?

Yes, Mr. Rakesh, I don't have the number of commerce colleges. I tried, because of this university, the university issue, I don't have an offline number, I'll try. But Aditya ji, any idea? I'm sure it's more than schools for sure.

It's definitely more than schools. And BCOM and BA and BBAs are the courses, which are -- we definitely have more students than engineering for sure in India. So...

We will probably come up with a better answer the next time.

Yes, no problem. So I have a few more questions, but let's, [ Eswar ] has asked two interesting questions. One he is asking, is there any escalation in the contracts that we signed with schools and colleges. Obviously, there should be some escalation. So what kind of escalation do we agree to these schools and colleges?

From a school perspective, we typically sign an agreement which is like 20 to 25 years. That is also some of the requirement of CBSE itself. Typically, the model that we had spoken about, they typically become landlords. So the rent, the rental that we pay them escalates by about 10% to 12% every 3 years. We don't so much do revenue share. We make it as a lease rental model and it escalates by about 10% to 12% every 3 years. As far as commerce colleges are concerned, again, it's a pure rental model. From a revenue perspective, our fees typically when we take up the operations of a school with our branding, with our products going in, typically, we take the fee by up by about 10%. The intake moves up by about 5%, 6% in the first year. And that delivers to us that extra INR 50 lakhs of profitability that I mentioned in the first year in a school. In the college space, Aditya, you want to comment on the fees that we charge?

Yes. So we charge almost INR 75,000 to a INR 1 lakh per year. So that's close to about INR 2.5 lakhs to INR 3 lakhs over a period of the whole undergrad program. That's what we do. There is an escalation of the fees as well as we go further. And this is the plain vanilla undergrad course fee. If we club it with the CA coaching or ACCA coaching or a CMA or any other value-add course, there is obviously yield per student goes up, and that depends on course-by-course. So for example, CA will add about 25,000, 30,000 per year into this kind of model. That's how the fee structure for the undergrad colleges are.

The second question Eswar had was, do we have any examples which we can share some names about schools or colleges that we have turned around in the last 2, 3 years, if you can put out some names out there.

So the one that we can mention is BBM Global, which is the schools, those K-12 and Cambridge schools that we acquired. It runs under the brand of BBM Global. In the first year after we took up the operations of the school, we did a few things. We increased their intake by 10%. We generally target 5%, 6%. The intake moved up by 10%. And the average fees, which includes all fees put together to tuition, to books, to uniform, to all of them put together, we typically look at increasing it by about 10%. In this case, it moved up almost by 13%, 14% in the first year. So the revenue base moved up after we acquired from about INR 55 crores, INR 56 crores to close to INR 65 crores in the first year. This -- for the group of schools that we acquired, which was about six of them. But our target in terms of what I mentioned is typically lower than this. We don't expect to increase fees beyond 10%, and we don't expect our intake to go beyond 5%, 6%, especially after we come in and rebrand the entire school. In terms of the fee increase itself, it's also a fairly controlled, typically about 8% or fee increase in keeping with inflation is generally part for this industry.

Okay. Aditya ji, any college name you want to mention that people can relate to?

From a college perspective, Rakesh ji, we only run Tapasya as of now, which is our own brand. And we have, as I mentioned, 15 colleges. Instead of turning it around, I would like to share that in the last couple of years, we have expanded in Bangalore. Originally, Tapasya was started mostly in -- mainly in Hyderabad, which after successful opening about seven, eight campuses in Hyderabad, we focused on launching Bangalore. In last 2 to 3 years, Bangalore has taken off. In fact, this year, we have started two more campuses in Bangalore. So I would say instead of turning it around, we'll call it expansion in a different geography and that has started giving us good returns from Bangalore as well.

So Aditya ji, when is our first third-party kind of college is going to start, out of the 40 that we have identified or something?

So from college perspective, as Suresh mentioned, the intent is to expand wherever Tapasya brand is strong, we'll go with Tapasya brand. And otherwise, with a strong brand like J.K. Shah classes, which is the pioneer from a commerce coaching perspective, the intent is that in the markets like Gujarat and a couple of other markets where J.K. Shah brand is fairly strong in western part of the country, we will leverage on a J.K. Shah classes brand and set up those colleges in an asset-light model. But it's not going to be managed services college, but it's going to be an asset-light model of running the way we are running Tapasya today.

Just to add quickly -- just to add quickly, Rakesh. I think the fundamental difference between our school and college expansion as far as the schools are concerned, we are really looking at taking operating control of existing operating schools. As far as the college expansion is concerned, we are going to be setting them up, ground up, which means we basically rent out the space. It's a lease rental, but a pure lease rental. It's not an operating college that we take over, but it's a brand new location that we set up and run. We have multiple colleges with various levels of the degree. So we know exactly how it works. So what we have seen is typically a college and a junior college that we start together starts with about 200 to 250 admissions in the first year, roughly about 125 for 11th, about 125 for the first year of BCom. And because the model feeds in the same, the people go to second year, the 11th standard kids go to 12th. We have new intake coming in 11th and Bcom first year. And typically, by the fourth year, we would have crossed about 1,000 students in the junior college and BCom put together. We have some other colleges where the numbers have gone up to about 1,800, but these are 6-year, 7-year old colleges. So it's a ground-up expansion.

Okay. So let's move to the commerce test preparation segment. Obviously, J.K. Shah is a very well-known name. Do we have any other brands like online brands to supplement J.K. Shah or is it only one brand that we're operating in?

So as far as J.K. Shah classes is concerned, it's predominantly been an offline brand, with now over 100 locations in 15 states in the country. We have been in discussion. We have signed definitive agreements and that's part of the fundraise that's currently ongoing. For the majority controlling stake acquisition in BB Virtual, which is Bhanwar Borana, who is one of the leaders in online CA coaching. We are excited about it for a couple of reasons. Like J.K. Shah clauses, it's a very, very outcome-driven business that Bhanwar runs. So -- in fact, we are planning to have a small celebration on 28th of this month in Bombay, where we are felicitating our rank holders who came during this year, and we have over 250 rank holders this year, whom we are felicitating in Bombay between Bhanwar and J.K. Shah classes. So clearly, BB Virtuals will be our online platform. J.K. Shah classes will be our offline platform. And the most exciting for us is the BB Virtuals platform are leaders in about four or five subjects that they do predominantly of CA finals. With the coming together of J.K. Shah and Bhanwar, we will now have starting from CA Foundation to CA Inter to ACCA to CMA, all of these programs now will be available in the online platform. And that will significantly expand our target segment, both in terms of revenue and profitability. We have Navkar, who is the leader in Gujarat for CA coaching, who is now part of the broader commerce vertical of Veranda. We have Logic in Kerala who are the leaders in Kerala, who are, again, part of the J.K. Shah-led commerce vertical and Tapasya, of course, from our perspective of taking this education to junior colleges and colleges in the commerce space.

Aditya ji, can you take this question from Moksh. He's saying that on an average, Indian colleges charge INR 40,000, INR 50,000 a year for BCom program. We are saying INR 1 lakh. So can you just explain the difference? And also take us through how much does this cost to do a training in J.K. Shah?

Sure. So yes, Indian colleges, Indian universities, typically, government universities charge INR 40,000 to INR 50,000 per year. Private colleges fees, obviously, is much larger. See, our claim to say, and the fact that we have more than 15,000 students across Tapasya across all the -- some junior college to the undergrad course, which means people are appreciating the quality of education we are providing. To specifically answer your question, the government universities have that kind of a fees, private universities have a different range of fees. So specifically when brands like Tapasya, they offer a undergrad course at INR 75,000 to INR 1 lakh per kind of a year. Obviously, a lot of emphasis is played on the other aspects like industry guest lectures, other certifications, engagement with the best faculties and industry connects, even placement support, et cetera. And happy to say that, as I mentioned earlier, apart from Hyderabad, we have seen this success even at a higher scale at Bangalore. So we don't see personally that this kind of a fee point for a good BCom course from a private college is a challenge. In fact, we feel we have a runway to do more of this as we go forward. On the other aspect of the CA coaching from J.K. Shah, from Rakesh ji the question you asked, so a typical CA coaching is split between CA Foundation and Inter, Final kind of a model. And obviously, we offer three separately or we offer that you can take -- you can enroll for all three of them and do all of them together as we go forward. Depending on the scale and the size what you get in, the cost ranges between INR 60,000, INR 65,000 to about INR 90,000 across the segments from a CA coaching perspective for the whole this thing. Now for each of the modules, it's a INR 25,000, INR 30,000 kind of a course. And depending on the various payment plan, this ranges like this.

Aditya, while we're on the same topic, Pranay had an interesting question about the online coaching. What is the unit economics for online coaching revenue per student or revenue from YouTube subscription, anything that you want to say?