Heartland Group Holdings Limited (HGH) Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Phoebe Gibbons, and I am the Chief Legal Officer. A warm welcome to shareholders and guests present both in person and online today at the 2026 Annual General Meeting of Heartland Group Holdings Limited. It is our pleasure to be here with you today. For those in the room to ensure your experience at Acarana is both memorable and safe, we would like to make you aware of the following. Bathrooms are located on the first floor on the lending, just opposite this room. In the unlikely event of an emergency, please remain calm and leave the room immediately through the fire exit doors and down the internal or external stairwell. A fire warden will clear the room. If you need assistance getting down the stairs, an evac Chair is located in the kitchen to my left. The evacuation point is located in the car park behind the building, a defibrillator and first aid kit are located by reception. Between the window and the front doors downstairs, there are staff on site with first aid training. Smoking, including vaping is permitted only in the eastern side of the car park away from the building. Finally, as a courtesy to everyone present, please ensure your phone is on silent. For those joining the meeting in person today, we welcome you to please join the Board and management for light refreshments after the meeting. For those joining online, I will shortly provide you with instructions on how to vote and ask questions. If you encounter any issues, please refer to the virtual annual meeting portal guide or phone the help line on 0800-200 220. Since a quorum is present, I declare the meeting open. I will now outline the agenda of the business for today's meeting. I will shortly introduce you to the Board of Directors and the Chief Executive Officers of Heartland Group Holdings Limited, Heartland Bank Limited and Heartland Bank Australia Limited, who are joining in person. I will then take you through the formalities of the meeting before inviting Greg Tomlinson, Chair of the Heartland Group to chair the meeting and provide a high-level overview of Heartland's performance and activities in the 2026 financial year and its focus moving forward. This will be followed by an address from Heartland Group's Chief Executive Officer, Andrew Dixson. And this will, in turn, be followed by an address from Heartland Bank New Zealand's Chief Executive Officer, Leanne Lazarus; and Heartland Bank Australia's Chief Executive Officer, Michelle Winder. The chairs of each bank are also here today and available to answer any questions you may have. Following this, there will be an opportunity to answer any questions you have about Heartland's performance strategic direction and operations. I encourage shareholders attending online to begin to submit their questions now if they have not done so already. We will answer as many of these as we can at the appropriate time. Thereafter, we will move to the formal business of the meeting, including voting on the resolutions proposed to you today. I would now like to introduce those on stage with us today. Starting with Greg Tomlinson, our Chair of the Heartland Group Board on my left. Greg was appointed a Director of Heartland Group in July 2018 and and was appointed the Chair of the Heartland Group Board in February 2023. Andrew Dixson. Andrew was appointed Chief Executive Officer of Heartland Group in October 2024. And -- he was also appointed to the Heartland Bank Board at that time. And in February 2025, he joins the Heartland Bank Australia board. Kate Mitchell, Kate was appointed as a Director of Heartland Group in October 2021. And Kate is also a Director of Heartland Bank. Rob Bell, Rob was appointed as a Director of Heartland Group in June 2024. To my right, John Harvey, John has been a Director of Heartland Bank since its establishment in 2011 and was appointed to the Heartland Group Board in April 2024. Simon Beckett. Simon was appointed as a Director of Heartland Group in June 2024. Simon is also now a Director of Heartland Bank Australia. Bruce Irvine, Bruce is Chair of the Heartland Bank Board where he has been a director since its establishment in 2011. Bruce is also a Director of Heartland Bank Australia. Leanne [indiscernible]. Leanne was appointed Chief Executive Officer of Heartland Bank New Zealand in August 2022. Lyn McGrath, Lyn was appointed Chair of the Australia -- of the Heartland Bank Australia Board in April 2026. Lyn has been a Director since the Board's establishment in April 2024. Michelle Winsor. Michelle was appointed Chief Executive Officer of Heartland Bank Australia, in July 2024. Returning to the business of the meeting. I advise that all valid proxies and postal votes received from shareholders within the prescribed time limits have been admitted. I can confirm that a total of 833 proxies and postal votes have been accepted. This represents some 383 million shares or 41% of the total issued shares in Heartland Group. I would now like to outline the meeting procedures. This is a meeting of Heartland Group Holdings Limited shareholders. Accordingly, while our guests are very welcome to witness the proceedings of this meeting, participation in the shareholder discussion and the business of the meeting is confined to ordinary shareholders present in person, online, by proxy or by authorized representative. Regarding the voting procedures for today's meeting. The resolution will be decided on by way of a poll. This is in line with the practice increasingly adopted by listed companies and is the preferred method of the NZX and the Investors Association New Zealand. By having the resolutions decided by way of a poll, we are counting all postal votes, proxy votes, votes online and votes from the floor. The resolutions will be put to the meeting. Shareholders joining us in the room should have received a voting card on registration. Please keep your voting card with you until the resolution has been voted on. our share registrar, MUFG, pension and Market Services, will then move through the room with ballot boxes and collect all voting cards. If you need to leave the meeting before the end, you may place your voting card in 1 of the ballot boxes at the exit with an MUFG pension and Market Services staff member. For shareholders attending the meeting online, when your online registration is validated. -- you will receive an electronic voting card, which you can use to cast your vote. To vote, you will need to click Get Voting cash within the online meeting platform. You will be asked to enter your shareholder or proxy number to validate. Please then mark your voting card in the way you wish to vote by clicking for, against or abstain on the voting card. Once you have made your selection, please click submit vote on the bottom of the card to lodge your vote. Please refer to the virtual meeting online portal guide or phone the health plan on 800 20, if you require assistance. Voting will remain open for 5 minutes after the conclusion of the meeting today. The notice calling this annual meeting was published electronically on the 15th of October 2026, with hard copies subsequently sent to shareholders who requested a copy. That notice outlined the formal business of this meeting, and also provided background information on the resolutions to be voted on. The minutes of the last annual meeting held on the 13th of November 2025 have been approved and confirmed by directors as is our custom. A digital version is also available on Heartland's website at heartlandgroup.info. I will now invite Heartland Group Board Chair, Greg Tomlinson, to address you. This will be followed by addresses from Andrew Dixson, Lean Lazarus and Michelle Windsor. We will then move to the shareholder discussion, which our chair will facilitate. We invite online questions to be submitted now to allow us to answer these at that time. Thank you.

Thank you, Phebe. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today. I want to begin by thanking you for the support you have given Heartland through a demanding year. It was a year of sustained effort and real achievement, which has left us as a stronger business. In FY '26, we celebrated 150 years of Heartland's heritage. As we look to the future, this is a good moment to reflect on how far we have come. Our earliest predecessor Ashburton Permanent Building and Investment Society was established in 1875 to help local people save for and buy homes. Heartland itself took shape in 2011, when Southern Cross Building Society, CBS Canterbury and Marit Finance came together followed later this year by the acquisition of PGG right since Finance. Coming together after the GFC took resilience and a belief that we could build something stronger together. Those building societies and community routes still matter. -- and a part of why we see a natural fit with TSB. Heartland's journey has not been without some bumps in the road. Since I became Chair in February 2023, higher impairments in our New Zealand portfolios, pressure on margins and the cost of integrating our Australian bank have weighed on earnings and returns. The FY '25 result was not where we wanted it to be. And I appreciate the patient shareholders have shown. Our response has been to strengthen the business. In FY '26, we delivered a turnaround in profitability, improved asset quality and sharpened our lending focus. That is meaningful progress, but it's not the limit of what Heartland can achieve. My personal ambition is for Heartland to deliver $300 million in net profit after tax over time. This is my view what this business could be capable of. It is not earnings guidance. Getting there will take sustained growth, a disciplined use of capital and better efficiency. Our specialist lending focus, investment in technology and the proposed TSB transaction give me confidence that we are on the right track. I also believe our share price does not yet reflect Heartland's value on earnings potential. It is our job to demonstrate that value through consistent delivery of stronger earnings and shareholder returns. Dividends are 1 of the ways we share that improvement with you. In September, we paid a fully imputed final dividend of $0.035 per share. This brought the total dividend for FY '26 to $0.07 per share. This was up from $0.04 per year in FY '25. For FY '27, the Board continues to target the total dividend payout ratio of at least 50% of net profit after tax subject to our capital needs, growth opportunities and financial performance. Our FY '27 priorities are to grow where we have specialist strengths, improve efficiency and turn the strong foundations we have built into more sustainable shareholder returns. The proposed TSB transaction will help us deliver on these priorities. It would bring together Heartland Bank's specialist lending expertise with TSB's established transactional banking capability and cost-effective funding. The combined bank would have greater scale and a broader range of products at the special shareholder meeting on 30th of September 95% of the boss cast by our shareholders supported the transaction. Thank you for your confidence. As we announced yesterday, completion is now targeted by on March 2027, subject to all remaining conditions being satisfied. The revised target completion date reflects the remaining work required in the relationship to the regulatory process. On behalf of the Board, I want to thank our Heartland employees for their hard work and commitment to customers. Thank you also to my fellow directors and Heartland's management team for their leadership and to our customers and shareholders. Thank you for your support, trust. There is more to do, but the opportunity ahead of us is significant. With your continued support, I'm confident we are well placed to realize it. I will now ask Andrew Dixson to address you. Thank you.

Thank you, Greg, and good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. I'll provide an overview of our FY 2026 performance, our outlook and priorities for FY 2027 and the proposed TSB transaction. FY 2026 was a year of focused delivery following a strategic reset in FY 2025. We met all underlying guidance metrics with an improved return on equity and turnaround and profitability. Net profit after tax increased to $93.2 million and net interest margin expanded to 3.95%. The impairment expense ratio fell to 0.45% and we concluded the nonstrategic asset program with a 94% recovery rate, releasing $32 million of capital to redeploy into growth. While we were pleased with this result, return on equity is the primary measure we hold ourselves account to account for. It is the measure of the return that we provide on the funds that you, our shareholders, have placed in us. Achieving the appropriate level of return as both paramount to us and drives fundamental value. In FY 2026, our return on equity rose to 7.3% from 3.2% and in the previous financial year. This was a step forward, but still short of our long-term ambition of at least 12%. Some of this gap is because we currently hold more capital than we need. Contributors to this excess capital position include a period of lower core receivable growth, coupled with successfully releasing capital through our nonstrategic asset program and by recent New Zealand regulatory changes to asset risk weights. We will continue to focus on optimizing our use of capital as our core receivable portfolios grow and completing the proposed TSB transaction. while remaining open to further inorganic opportunities. For now, our strategy to deliver specialist products into New Zealand and Australian markets remain sound. -- completion of the proposed TSB transaction in New Zealand enhances rather than changes our strategy, creating a New Zealand challenger bank of scale with a regional focus, which is full service capable and differentiated by its specialist product sets. Turning to FY 2027. We are guiding to net profit after tax of at least $102 million and a return on equity of at least 7.5%. We will update this guidance on completion of the proposed TSB transaction, subject to all remaining conditions being satisfied. And we have started the year well in the September quarter, Return on equity was 7.6%, net interest margin, 3.92%, and the cost-to-income ratio was 54.7%. Asset quality continued to improve in New Zealand, and remained stable in Australia. Our focus for FY 2027 is on building and acquiring scale through 2 priorities: first, accelerating growth in our core portfolios, including targeting reverse mortgage growth of more than 18% in both New Zealand and Australia. Secondly, successfully completing the proposed TSB transaction. These outcomes will be supported by the next phase of our technology transformation programs in both New Zealand and the Australian banks, which we expect will enhance operating leverage and unlock future growth. Following the completion of the proposed TSB transaction, we will commence merger integration. These activities will provide the opportunity to optimize capital held within the business. On the proposed transaction, we're making very good progress on the proposed TSP transaction. Following Heartland's shareholder approval, we're working through the remaining conditions and are now targeting completion by 1 March 2027. The likely Board of the proposed merged bank is comprised of all existing Heartland Bank directors and 2 existing TSB directors. They currently operate as the establishment panel. In October, we announced the establishment panel's endorsement of the Merge Bank's future leadership team, including Leanne Lazarus as CEO designate. All appointments are, of course, subject to completion and Reserve Bank nonobjection. I want to emphasize 1 aspect of why we believe this is the right step for Heartland, scale. TSB Harland would have around $15000 billion of New Zealand assets. That's a 171% increase in our existing New Zealand asset base. Scale matters because it gives us operating leverage. Banking is changing quickly and keeping up with technology, compliance and customer expectations take significant investment that is ongoing. -- the ability to spread that investment across a bigger business is 1 way to improve our cost-to-income ratio over time. We expect the merged bank to achieve approximately $34 million a year in pretax cost synergies, which once fully realized with this run rate building progressively over 3 years. Combined with the transaction structure, we expect to deliver normalized earnings per share accretion of more than 20% in the first year after completion, alongside an enhanced dividend per share profile. And improvement in our return on equity. In conclusion, through FY 2026, we reset Heartland's core strategic foundation and have carried that momentum into FY 2027. Our priorities now are to grow our core lending portfolios, improve efficiency and complete the proposed transaction and begin integrating the 2 banks. Together, these priorities will enable us to deploy capital where it can improve returns. Thank you to our customers, our people and our shareholders for your continued confidence in Heartland. I will now hand over to Leanne followed by Michelle to provide updates on our New Zealand and Australian banks. Thank you.

Thank you, Andrew, and good morning, everyone. This morning, I will cover Heartland Bank's financial year 2026 performance, how we have started financial year 2027. Our technology transformation and the proposed merger with TSB. In financial year 2026, we built on the foundations of financial year 2025 strategic reset to deliver growth in our core portfolios, reduce risk and release capital. Heartland Bank materially mets underlying guidance for key financial metrics in financial year 2026. Net profit after tax rose to $49.8 million, core lending returned to growth, driven by strong performance in our reverse mortgage and rural businesses, which grew 16.8% and and 10.8%, respectively. Asset quality materially strengthened. Our nonperforming loan ratio improved to 1.92% as at the 30th of June 2026. We cleared or motor finance nonperforming loans more than 180 days past due and motor finance arrears continues to be at an all-time low, outperforming the industry average. Additionally, we released capital, an important enabler of growth. The Reserve Bank of New Zealand reduced the transitional capital overlay imposed following our acquisition of what is now Heartland Bank Australia, and that was from 2% to 0.5%. The nonstrategic asset program also successfully concluded, releasing $32 million of capital. As we look to 2027, and we are now in the second quarter of financial year 2027. Our focus is on sustaining the momentum we built in financial year 2026. The first quarter was a solid start to the year. Reverse mortgages remains our strongest source of growth. Receivables grew $46.9 million, 12.9% on an annualized basis. Growth was held back by a little by lower productivity, while we implemented a new technology platform but our pipeline hasn't rebounded, and there remains a clear demand for reverse mortgages. Across our other portfolios, first quarter volumes reflected a combination of subdued credit demand and several portfolio-specific movements rather than a change in our longer-term growth expectations. Rural motor finance and business finance contracted in the quarter. Rural as one large borrower changed its funding strategy, Motorfinance due to competitive and timing impacts mainly in wholesale lending and business finance where credit demand remains subdued in a challenging environment for borrowers. In Motor Finance, we are focused on growth through financial year 2027 as we strengthen existing franchise and strategic partnerships and build new ones. -- in rural and livestock finance, we expect the usual seasonal uplift in the second half of the financial year. So overall, we remain focused on returning these portfolios to growth through financial year 2027, while maintaining the credit discipline and asset quality improvements achieved over the past year. Now turning to our technology program. In financial year 2026, we commenced a multiyear program to simplify and automate how the bank operates by progressively moving our lending and servicing processes from multiple systems and manual processes onto 1 AI-enabled platform called Pega. Reverse mortgage origination launched in -- on the new platform in June of this year, and it is now live for all new reverse mortgage loans. Settlement of loans and ongoing servicing of loans are now in-house, and we have introduced mobile app access for those customers. Early results indicate a very meaningful reduction in the time from application to settlement. This demonstrates the opportunity to deliver a better customer experience and greater operational efficiency to support the bank's future growth. I'll now turn to the proposed merger of Heartland Bank and TSB. -- which does remain subject to regulatory approval. I am delighted to have been endorsed as the Chief Executive Officer Designate for the proposed merged bank, TSB Heartland Bank. And I'm equally delighted that the future TSB Heartland Bank leadership team has been endorsed. This is an exceptional team, which brings complementary experience and perspectives both from Heartland Bank and TSB and reflects the bank we're building together. We have made significant progress preparing for the merger, subject to satisfaction of the remaining conditions and completion of the proposed transaction, Heartland and TSB teams have undertaken detailed planning to ensure the combined bank can operate safely and effectively from day 1 while also developing the road map for integration over the following 3 years. That work covers all areas of the bank and establishes clear executive accountability integration governance and independent assurance over delivery. Our approach is deliberately phased. Day 1 is about stability and continuity for our customers and our people. From there, we will progressively integrate the banks, sequencing change carefully to protect customer service and operational resilience while realizing the benefits of the merger. As CEO designate of the merged bank, I am committed to ensuring we deliver the integration successfully and create a stronger, more competitive bank for New Zealanders. In conclusion, overall financial year 2026 has been a year of significant progress and renewed momentum for the New Zealand Bank. Our focus remains on sustainable growth in our core lending portfolios and subject to completion, a successful merger with TSB. This is underpinned by continued cost discipline and operational efficiency and with quality guiding everything we do. On behalf of Heartland Bank, I would like to thank you for your ongoing support. I will now hand over to Michelle Winzer.

Thank you, Leanne, and good morning, everyone. It is a pleasure to be with you here today. [Audio Gap] risk and capital discipline and delivering sustainable value for our customers and partners. Thank you for your continued support and commitment to Heartland. I will now hand back to Greg.

Thank you, Michelle. Ladies and gentlemen, before opening the meeting for questions, I advise that Karen Shares of PwC, the company's auditor, is present today and can answer any questions relevant to the conduct of the audit and the preparation and content of the auditor's report for the year ending 30th of June 2026. Shareholders joining online who wish to ask a question on Heartland's performance, strategy or operations can submit their questions through the online meeting platform now. We will aim to answer as many of those questions as possible. Any comments, questions or matters raised for discussion during this -- during the meeting must be relevant to the business before the meeting. If you have matters you would like to raise as a customer, the Board and management can answer your questions during refreshments after the meeting. For those online, please submit any customer questions, and we will respond after the meeting. I will now open the meeting for questions, starting with those in the room followed by questions online. For shareholders in the room who wish to ask a question, please raise your hand and then wait for a microphone. Please state your name before asking your question. If you have more than 1 question, please ask all of your questions and then resume your seat. We will answer each of your questions in turn. This will help to ensure as many shareholders as possible have an opportunity to ask questions.

Okay. We got questions here. Thank you.

[indiscernible] with the Investors Association in New Zealand. Just a general question, if I may. Would Heartland in the future consider entering the business banking sector? And what are the barriers that are preventing the bank from not moving into that space.

Thank you for the question, Chris. So look, we do do an amount of business banking, but idle at the smaller end of the market. Now again, there's only so much we can do as a smaller bank, and we've got to do -- whatever we're taking on, we here have to make sure we do a damn good job of it. But thank you for the question. Yes, a question down here.

I'm a key shareholder for some time. DSB Bank has saved their community for some time and they're well respected. -- how much of participation they're going to take in reverse mortgage with the rest of the outlet may. Are they in agreement to go along with the reverse mortgages or they're going to operate with separate banking identity.

No. Look, this is an amalgamation of the 2 banks and the products. So really nothing much changes is the reality. Customers will still be supported in all the asset classes that we lend in. And Yes, reality is that there's going to be some crossovers and more opportunities for customers, particularly in the regional areas. Thank you. .

Gary Romano. You made the statement that an aspirational target to grow the NPAT from $100 million to $300 million I'm assuming reverse mortgages would be a large part of that aspired growth. But I'm just wondering whether you can give some color as to other avenues that you see a potential for the bank for growth.

Yes, that's a very good question. And again, let's -- this is aspirational. Now -- so that's the challenge I'm putting to the business. via the Board for the Heartland Group Board. Now we wouldn't sort of state that unless we feel pretty confident we can do it. Now A lot of it is around growth, but there's also opportunities in cost of capital. There's also good opportunity around other asset classes that we're not really getting the best out of now. There's that plus it's cost savings with the integration of the 2 entities. But thank you. We have some further questions here within the room.

Grant here. Customers deposits, is there any thoughts on how you can and [indiscernible] and increase that area of the business.

Sorry, I missed your name. I should pass it over to our retail bankers, but because that's not my level of expertise. So Leanne.

I can answer for New Zealand and Michele, you can answer for Australia. So at present, the retention for our depositors in New Zealand is in the high 80% -- we have dynamic pricing strategies that we continue to and we review consistently. As we progress part of our strategy, we'll be to look at how do we continue to retain our depositors and to give them the best rates.

It's a very similar approach for Australia. We value our depositors. We are being very successful in the deposit market within Australia, taking a very similar approach dynamic pricing, retaining our customers and making sure that we're offering really good products for our customers. So it continues to be a really important focus for us.

Thank you. So I'm just sort of -- I'm just cast my around the room, please.

Karl Trott's my name. What we've seen is some slippage of the merger date for what reason and what assurance can you give that there won't be further slippage.

Yes. So look, -- this is -- yes, it's not us. It really comes back to the relationship between the regulator, they've got to go through their due process. So that's where it's been slowed up.. Now can we give an accurate date when that's going to be completed. It's not an out. seriously, it's not in our control. But I'll pass you over to Bruce, who's closer to this.

So on Tuesday this week, Greg and I had a meeting at the Reserve Bank with the Deputy Governor and the head of Prudential Supervision and it became clear at that meeting that while we had our foot on the throat to get on December that the complexity from the regulator's perspective about bringing 2 banking licenses together into one. They just needed to work through their processes properly and deal with it. So we essentially came away from that meeting agreeing to the delayed timetable. It doesn't reduce in any way the commitment of TSB and Heartland and the Reserve Bank to actually get this deal across the line. But it's just sensible that we now take a little bit more time to get all of the eyes dotted and Ts crossed. That's it.

You essentially are saying that this will all get done in the course of December and January. And given what happens in this country over December and January, you don't think that's overly optimistic.

That is correct. And if you look back, we set the on December date quite a long time ago, and we have been working towards that. But there were some issues with the consultation process that toy had in Taranaki, which delayed that whole process by a month. And we were really trying hard to get across the line on 1 December. But it was always going to be a tough ask. And -- but we're very comfortable that on 1 March, we can get everything sorted and over the line by then.

I'd just like to add, we just need to give the regulator the appropriate time to review the applications of both Heartland and [indiscernible].

Yes. Richard, I've been a shareholder and a keen investor with Heartland and TSB for many years. I'm interested in that Kiwi Bank made an offer -- or showed interest in Heartland TSB is what was going along. If they had been successful, I'm pleased that it would have stayed within New Zealand as the Heartland TSB mortgage will do, but we're about in the market when they have ended up with Kiwi Bank like you've got the 4 large ones and then you've got the smaller ones that run below it. And with this merger, you're becoming at #7, whereabouts would they have been if Kiwibank had taken you on?

Well, actually, we did do that work, and I did -- I can't recall, but maybe sort of 6, I think, rings a bell fifth of being reminded, yes, fifth, they would have been at scale, correct.

Hanging in there and not are getting gobbled up by one of the other large [indiscernible] .

Thank you, Richard, and that's the intent. Thank you. All right. Please, no. If there are any further questions from the room, if there's not, we'll move to online questions. Sorry, we have missed one here.

Hi. My name is [indiscernible]. And my question is, nowadays, they say that because of the artificial intelligence, they can deploy the agents into the banking system. -- and swipe out our deposits, particularly deposits where we pay very late centers to the customers. So -- will the bank -- is the bank taking care of this type of possible things?

Yes. Look, I'll look attempt to answer it, but I will move it to the banks. But all I can assure you is we have -- we're putting significant investment into AI and training, of course, to actually get ourselves in a preparation for the next phase. I mean this is just all part of life, part of business life, everything adapts. But Leanne, if I could ask you get you.

We are safely deploying AI, and we're doing it in a very -- we are very early stages of it. I spoke about the new platform that we are implementing in our reverse mortgage business. That's just one example. It has AI-enabled functionality. We are very -- been very deliberate about how we safely deploy. We also had strengthened and continue to strengthen all of our security posture and the controls and the governance. So the governance right at the highest level at the Board and not just with the New Zealand and Australia as well. And then the sub committees as well as the policies and the frameworks.

Thank you, Leanne. So just looking around at any further questions from the floor? If not, we will move to online questions, please.

Thank you, Greg. First question here. Why is Heartland reentering the NZ mortgage business via TSB when you just got out of It.

I'll make a start. So look, yes, we got out of it because we weren't off scale. So we saw that as nonstrategic. We got to 50-odd mill of loans, which again is subscale. It was all online. This gives us that having sorry, having access to the larger portfolio gives us scale that we can actually have a meaningful stake in that market. Leanne, have you got anything else you want to add? .

Yes. As Greg said, we could -- we were not able to scale home loans. We had to make a strategic decision around where is it best to deploy our capital. as at home loans or reverse mortgages as a smaller organization. As we merge with have a significant portfolio of mortgages. And it's not just simple mortgages. They have different types of borrowing. This will allow us to actively and competitively engage in this market.