Indra Sistemas, S.A. (IDR) Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning, and welcome to Indra's 9 Months 2026 Results Presentation. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Seki Nieto, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Indra's 9-month 2020 Results Presentation. My name is equinet, had Investor Relations. Before we begin, let me briefly draw your attention to disclaimer on the current slide, which sets out the lingering and which we will have the presentation. Joining me today are Jose Maria Regan, Chief Executive Officer of Indra; and Miguel Forteta, Chief Financial Officer of Indra. Let me now hand over our CEO to walk you through the key highlights of the period. Creche floor is yours. .

Thank you very much, Kiel. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the presentation of Ina Group's first 9 month 2026 results. Let me start saying that the first 9 months of 2026 have been a period of strong execution for Indra. We delivered double-digit growth across all our key financial metrics, fully in line with the 2026 targets, supported by accelerating order intake, a record backlog and a sustained demand across our core markets. Importantly, this growth was combined by a further improvement in profitability, reflecting the increasing scale of the business and the quality of our portfolio. Beyond the financial performance, we also continued to strengthen the foundations for the future growth. We simplified the group's organizational structure to enhance execution and decision-making while expanding our industrial footprint through the acquisition of a new plan in Aspontes. We also reached important milestones in 2 of our key programs. In defense, the BCRA program continued to advance steadily, reaching a total of 101 units delivered by the end of September and demonstrating the successful ramp-up of our industrial and production capabilities. In space, the signature of the Iris Square contract further reinforced our position in 1 of the Europe's most strategic sovereign initiatives. Finally, we completed a number of targeted acquisitions that strengthen our capabilities in strategic technology domains, including cybersecurity, autonomous systems, advanced sensing technologies and quantum computing, broadening our technological capabilities and supporting our long-term growth ambitions. These developments reflect the progress we are making across the key levels of our transformation. Let me now take you through each of those levers and provide some tangible examples of how they are already translating into execution. Building on the 5 principles I shared with you in the last conference call that is speed and delivery, quality and availability, sovereignty, competitiveness and dual use. I'm going to elaborate on our 5 levers to play offense in our markets, markets that are in profound transformation. First, office talent, offensive talent. The industry is competing for a new generation of engineers, AI specialists and highly skilled professionals, attracting them is important but developing and retaining them will be just as critical for that purpose, Lean operating models are key to enter these professionals. Second, offensive product. Our customers expect more sophisticated, more flexible and increasingly integrated solutions. We need to shorten development cycles, accelerate innovation and continuously evolve our product portfolios. For Indra, product development will be key going forward. Third, offensive industrial demand is increasing and the industry must be able to respond. This means expanding capacity, strengthening supply chains and above all, delivering at the greater speed and scale without compromising quality. Fourth, offensive ecosystem, no company can address today's defense challenges alone. Success will increasingly depend on stronger partnerships with other players, suppliers, start-ups, research institutions or governments. We have a crucial role to play in strengthening the national ecosystem while forging strategic partnerships across Europe. And fifth, offensive technology, artificial intelligence, quantum advanced sensors or cyber are rapidly transforming our industry. Our challenge is not simply to access these technologies, but to integrate them into our products and industrial processes faster than ever before. These 5 levers are closely connected. Together, they will determine which companies can grow, execute and lead in the next decade. Let me start with the offensive talent. We have recently established a leaner leadership team, reducing the size of our management commented by 1/3. The objective is straightforward to accelerate execution, strengthen end-to-end accountability and speed up decision making. We can clear -- we want clear accountability and high-performing teams working seamlessly across the company. To achieve this, we are organizing ourselves around 4 fundamental roles think, sell, the liver and corporate. Think will shape our long-term strategy and direction. Sell will drive growth, deepen client relationships and expand our commercial footprint. The lever will ensure we meet our commitments on time, on budget and on the highest quality standards and corporate will enable the entire organization to perform effectively every day. This is the culture we want to build, 1 company, 1 team and 1 word, a simple organization with clear accountability, faster decisions and stronger collaboration fully focused on execution and results. Offensive product, we have reached an important milestone in air traffic demonstrating our ability to deliver highly complex projects simultaneously across different geographies. In just 1 week, I repeat in just 1 week we successfully commissioned 4 control centers in Argentina, India, Indonesia and Peru. This achievement reflects not only the strength of our technology, but also our ability to execute ex scale. Working closely with the navigation service provider in each country, our teams have supported every stage of the process from implementation and validation through to the final commissioning, adapting our solutions to each customer's specific operational requirements. These new systems integrate roots, approach and tower operations, helping our customers manage their space with greater safety, efficiency and capacity. This is a strong example of what we can achieve when we combine leading technology, deep customer relationships and world-class execution. In the United States, we continue to make strong progress with the Federal Aviation Administration. In the first 9 months of the year, we have delivered 10 primary and 20 secondary radars as part of the historic modernization of the country's air traffic surveillance infrastructure. This is a program of significant scale. By 2027, we expect to achieve up to 185 state-of-the-art radars, bringing greater reliability and performance to the U.S. air traffic management system. At the same time, we are making strong progress on the Nex Com program, having already delivered more than 3,500 radios. Accelerating industrialization is becoming a critical competitive advantage in defense, and the wild bridge layer vehicle is a very good example. We signed a contract in January and less than a year later, we are on track to have the first system ready for customer demonstration. This is the pace at which we want to operate. Our strong backlog brings significant opportunities, but also important delivery commitments and we need to consistently turn those commitments into results for our customers. In parallel, we are rapidly building sovereign engineering and manufacturing capabilities without compromising on quality. But we cannot do this alone. We are playing a crucial role in strengthening the national industrial ecosystem. Let us continue with our offensive industrial. Fion is a strong example of the pace at which we are also transforming our industrial footprint. Just 6 months after acquiring the site, the facility is already operational and contributing to our growing manufacturing needs. The refurbished plan is already supporting the BCR 8x8 inventory fighting vehicle program, combining advanced Industry 4.0 capabilities with proving ground facilities designed to ensure the highest standards of quality and operational performance. To replicate this model, we have created dedicated teams to systemize the integration and ramp-up of newly acquired industrial assets, reducing the time needed to bring additional capacity up and running. Our objective is clear: to turn acquisitions into operational capacity as quickly as possible. Staying with the BCR 8x8 program. The delivery of 101 vehicles before the close of the third quarter represents an important milestone and above all, reflects the strong acceleration achieved in recent months. Since Indra took control of tests, we have significantly increased the pace of deliveries and strengthened the program's industrial execution. By the way, I'm pleased to share with you that this week, we delivered additional 18 more units, not shown in this slide, bringing the year total to 78 and the whole program 19 million and we expect to announce further deliveries in the coming weeks, clearly exceeding our guidance of 90 units for 2026. The acquisition of our new facility in As Pontes represents another important step in the transformation of Indra's industrial capabilities. With an investment of around $18 million we are adding almost 15,000 square meters of industrial facilities dedicated to the production of integration of military vehicles. The new facility will integrate amphibious combat vehicles, military bridging vehicles and will utility systems for the Spanish arm forces. It will also provide us with the capabilities to integrate, test, validate and commission these platforms, including an enlarged proving ground. Together with our facilities in Gijon, As Pontes will strengthen the industrial footprint of our land vehicle business in Northern Spain. More importantly, it will help us build and on scalable and highly efficient industrial base capable of supporting the significant growth ahead of us. Let us move to the next chapter, which is the offensive ecosystem for us. Soberanity is not only about developing critical technologies, but also about building the ecosystem capable of sustaining them over the long term. Through the national special modernization programs, we are committed to achieving approximately 76% national industrial content, mobilizing a broad Spanish industrial ecosystem of more than 1,000 suppliers and around 60% of which are small, medium enterprises. This gives in a unique ability to act as a catalyst, transforming defense investment into industrial and technological capabilities across Spain. The COS 35 program has already involved more than 180 Spanish suppliers across over 16 autonomous regions, creating a genuinely nationwide industrial footprint. And importantly, more than 55% of those suppliers are small, medium-sized enterprises, together with more than 5 universities and technological centers. Looking ahead to 2035, the program's industrial plan MBH, a 79% national contribution that translates into approximately $800 million flowing into the national industrial ecosystem, strengthening Spain's technological and industrial capabilities. We are ultimately talking about product, industrial capacity and national ecosystem able to deliver critical defense capabilities at scale. Let me turn now to the offensive technology. Iris Square is 1 of Europe's most ambitious strategic programs and a major step forward in strengthening its technological sovereignty. The program will deploy a new multi-orbit satellite constellation to provide secure, resilient and sovereign communications across Europe and beyond. Iris Square will serve governments, defense and security users, while also supporting commercial connectivity and broadband services. With a total investment of $15.6 billion, Iris Square will become 1 of the largest and most complex space programs and develop in Europe. Its architecture will combine low earth orbit and medium earth orbit satellites together with a dedicated very low earth orbit constellation and an advanced ground infrastructure. The program will reduce Europe's dependence on external communication infrastructure and strengthen its ability to operate autonomously in critical situations. The combination of the satellite constellation and the ground segment will also provide greater resilience and additional connectivity when conventional networks are limited or disrupted, supporting governments and emergency services during crisis. With the first launches planned for 2029, Iris Square is now moving from ambition to deployment. Hispasat will play a leading role in Iris Square. As a member of the Space Rice consortium alongside Eutelsat and CES, it has been appointed prime contractor for the entire ground segment, covering antenna infrastructure, control systems and connections to ground networks. This represents a budget of more than EUR 1.6 billion and will be the largest and most complex ground infrastructure developed in Europe for a space program. With an additional EUR 300 million budget, Hispasat will lead the development of the very low earth orbit layer, focused on direct 2 device, mobile connected or new experimental services. This marks the first time a Spanish company has taken such a leading role in a major European space program. For Hispasat, Iris Square represents a mature a major step forward. placing the company at the heart of Europe's future secure satellite communications infrastructure. From 2031 to 2038, Hispasat will hold commercialization rights for Iris square services, opening a significant new opportunity in the satellite communications market. These rights will enable Hispasat to develop and commercialize a new generation of connectivity services based on non-geostationary satellite infrastructure. For citizens and businesses, this will translate into applications such as direct-to-device connectivity, maritime emergencies or broadband connectivity, particularly what terrestrial networks are unavailable or insufficient. But the potential for this infrastructure goes well beyond the commercial market. The same satellite capabilities will provide secure and resilient communications for governments and am forces including in strategically important areas and situations where conventional networks may be disrupted. This combination of civilian and military applications increases both the strategic relevance and the potential utilization of the infrastructure. Iris Square brings together commercial opportunity and strategic severity through a truly dual use European infrastructure. And the way, as you may know, on October 27, Indra Space celebrated the signature of 2 contracts with the European Space Agency European Commission and the EU agency for the space program to develop a new ground stations for the second generation of Galileo Europe's satellite navigation system for badges of $52.3 million. Finally, we are taking decisive steps to reinforce our position in the critical and dual-use technologies that will shape the future. Our agreement to acquire 30% of TRC represents another important step, strengthening our cybersecurity capabilities through highly specialized sovereign technology. With the acquisition of 100% of their technology, we are adding advanced synthetic aperture rather and an image processing categories to our portfolio for applications such as unmanned systems. We have complemented this moves with a $10 million investment in Kilimanjaro, Quantum Tech through Indra mine. This investment plays us closer to the development of physical AI, precision robotics and autonomous systems. By combining these capabilities with Indra's industrial scale, we are accelerating the development of strategic technologies and reinforcing the technological sovereignty that is essential for Europe. So having reviewed the progress across the key levers of our transformation, let me now turn to how this strategic and operational progress translates into financial performance during the first 9 months of 2026. Backlog reached a record EUR 22.2 billion at the end of September, more than doubling year-on-year with 133% increase. At the same time, order intake grew by 82% to EUR 8.1 billion, driven primarily by the exceptional momentum in Defense and by the Landmark Iris Square award which further strengthen our space business following the integration of Hispasat and Issasat. Revenues increased by 29% year-on-year to EUR 4.6 billion, driven by an outstanding growth in defense, which doubled its revenues and by continued expansion of our air traffic business. Importantly, we continue to improve profitability while growing at scale. EBIT margin reached 9.8%, up 1 point versus the first 9 months of 2025 and a 10.4% excluding the impact of test consolidation. In absolute terms, EBITDA and EBIT increased by 62% and 42%, respectively. Net income amounted to $355 million representing a 22% increase versus the first 9 months of last year. On cash generation, free cash flow reached EUR 1.7 billion compared with 57 million in the first 9 months of 2025. As we have explained throughout the year, this performance is driven by the prepayments received in January under the special modernization programs. As a result, we closed the period with a net cash position of EUR 1.2 billion, implying a net debt-to-EBITDA ratio of negative 1.4x. This exceptionally strong balance sheet provides significant financial flexibility and positions us well to support the group's strategic priorities and future growth ambitions. Looking more precisely at the third quarter on a stand-alone basis, we continue to deliver strong growth with revenues increasing by 26%, largely driven by the outstanding performance of Defense where revenues grew by more than 95%. This solid top line performance was accompanied by a resilient profitability, with EBIT margin remaining stable year-on-year at 9.4% despite the continued ramp-up of major programs and the strong growth profile of the business. The revenue growth remained broad-based across the group combining a strong underlying momentum with the contribution from the business integrated over the last 12 months. As a result, revenues increased by 28% in local currency and 16% organically demonstrating the strength of our core businesses. From a geographic perspective, growth was particularly strong in Spain, driven by the excellent performance of our Defense & Space activities. As a result, the weight of Spain within the group continued to increase during the period, a trend that we expect to continue in the coming periods, supporting -- supported by the ramp-up of special modernization programs. International operation, nevertheless, remains a substantial part of the business, accounting for 42% of group revenues with solid growth in both AMA and the Americas. One of the most significant developments during the period has been the continued evolution of our business mix. Aerospace and Defense continue to increase its contribution across the group, representing 80% of backlog, 46% of revenues and 69% of EBIT in the first 9 months of the year. This reflects the strong growth of our defense activities and the increasing contribution of space further reinforcing our exposure to markets with strong long-term growth and visibility. As we continue to scale the group, productivity becomes a key management priority. At the end of September, the group had almost 59,000 employees, a 4% reduction compared to a year ago, mainly reflecting the continued optimization of our inside workforce. More importantly, revenue per employee increased by 34% year-on-year, highlighting both the strong growth achieved across the group and the continued improvement in operational efficiency and business mix. Let us now take a closer look at the performance of each division and the key factors driving growth and profitability across the portfolio. Starting with the defense business. The first 9 months of 2026 confirm the very strong momentum we are seeing across all key performance indicators. Defense continues to benefit from an exceptionally supportive demand environment which is reflected in both the commercial performance and the execution of our existing programs. Order intake increased by 80%, further reinforcing the strong visibility of the business while revenues doubled year-on-year as major programs continue to move into execution. Lastly, profitability remained at the sector-leading levels with an EBIT margin of 16.1% and or 20.1%, excluding the test consolidation impact. Looking specifically at the third quarter, defense maintained a very strong momentum seen through the year with revenues increasing by 95% year-on-year. This growth translated into another quarter of a strong profit expansion with both EBITDA and EBIT increasing by around 50% compared to the third quarter of 2025. Underlying profitability remained resilient with EBIT margin reaching 17.3%, excluding the impact of tests. Turning to space. The integration of [indiscernible] has significantly expanded both the scale and strategic relevance of the business. As a result, backlog exceeded EUR 4.8 billion while order intake reached EUR 2.2 billion, including a EUR 1.9 billion contribution from the Iris Square program. The first 9 months following the integration of Hispasat and Hisdesat have already demonstrated the value of the transaction, driving revenue growth of more than 370% while supporting a significant improvement in profitability, with EBITDA margin reaching 40% of and EBIT margin 9.9%. Overall, these results confirm the strategic rationale of the integration and the growing importance of space within the group. Looking specifically at the third quarter, the space continued to expand rapidly with revenues increasing by 329% year-on-year, supported by the integration of [indiscernible] as well as double-digit growth across its operations in Spain, the Americas and Europe. Profitability also remained strong with EBITDA and EBIT margins reaching 39% and 8.5%, respectively. Air traffic continues to demonstrate why it's 1 of the most attractive businesses within the group, combining growth, profitability and strong commercial momentum. Order intake increased by 27%, mainly driven by rather contracts supporting a backlog growth of 26% to $1.4 billion and a book-to-bill ratio of 1.85x. Revenues grew by 23%, supported by Radars, Air Traffic Systems and the Canada iTech program, while profitability remained on an upward trajectory. EBITDA and EBIT both delivered double-digit growth with margins improving to 15.7% and 12.7%, respectively. Focusing now on the third quarter, air traffic accelerated its growth trajectory with revenues increasing by 39% year-on-year, supported by rather a radio contracts across the U.S., EMEA and Europe, EBITDA and EBIT also delivered double-digit growth in absolute terms, while margins remained at very healthy levels with EBIT margin reaching 12.8%. Looking at mobility, the key highlight for the division was the exceptional commercial performance during the period, with order intake more than tripling year-on-year driven by the Transport for London contract in the U.K. Rai well systems maintenance in Saudi Arabia and the transport of Washington contract in the U.S. This strong order intake live backlog by 74% to EUR 1.7 billion and a book-to-bill ratio of 3.57x. This commercial success provides a much stronger foundation for future growth and improves the visibility of the business going forward. Moving on to third quarter. On a stand-alone basis, Mobility maintained a positive revenue trajectory with sales growing by 3%, supported by double-digit growth in Spain. Importantly, EBITDA grew faster than revenues driving a 40 basis point improvement in EBITDA margin to 6.3%. Finally, let me conclude the divisional review with insight which continued to deliver a resilient performance while progressing through its ongoing transformation. Reported revenues increased by 1%. Excluding the impact of BPO disposal, organic growth reached 3% and providing a clear view of the underlying performance. Growth was supported by public administrations healthcare, where revenues increased by 12%. Profitability remained stable with EBITDA and EBIT margins unchanged year-on-year at 8.3% and 6%, respectively. Zooming in on the third quarter, Minsait delivered organic revenue growth of 1%. Profitability remained broadly stable with EBIT margin at 6.6% compared with 6.7% in the third quarter of 2025. Overall, these results reinforce our confidence in the group's trajectory, we continue to see strong demand across our core markets, a growing backlog and increasing scale in our outer space and defense activities, all of which support our ambitions for the year ahead. With that, let me hand over to our Chief Financial Officer, Miguel Fortesa who will take you through the remaining financial items in detail.

Thank you, Rick, and good morning, everyone. Starting with free cash flow. Reported free cash flow reached EUR 1.7 billion in the first 9 months of 2026 compared with EUR 57 million in the same period last year. As previously explained, this exceptional figure mainly reflects the prepayments received under the 2025 special modernization programs or PEMs. At the end of September, the net contribution from these prepayments stood at EUR 1.8 billion. As the corresponding programs move into execution, these funds will be progressively deployed and reported free cash flow will normalize accordingly. That said, -- during the third quarter, we unlocked additional PEM related prepayments, which partially offset this expected reduction. For comparability, we also adjust for the EUR 187 million of factoring used as previous period ends. We discontinued this practice at the beginning of 2026, as it no longer provides an efficient source of financing given our current cash position. After adjusting for both the pen prepayments and factoring comparable free cash flow amounted to EUR 70 million. This performance remains consistent with investment profile required to execute our growing backlog, and we remain confident in delivering our full year free cash flow guidance of more than EUR 375 million, excluding the impact of PEM related prepayments. Turning to working capital. The position improved significantly, reaching negative EUR 1.9 billion at the end of September, equivalent to negative 109 days of sales compared with positive 21 days of GRL earlier. This evolution was mainly driven by the prepayments received under the special monetization programs. That's minus 119 days of sales together with those related to tests and is the SAT equivalent to minus 97 days of sales. These effects more than offset the higher level of inventories in absolute terms, while inventories remained broadly stable when measured in days of sales. Let me now walk you through the evolution of our net debt position. The group closed September with a net cash position of EUR 1.2 billion, compared with net debt of EUR 583 million at the end of 2025. This improvement was driven by reported free cash flow of EUR 1.7 billion, including the substantial working capital benefit from the PEM prepayments. The underlying operating performance was also strong, with operating cash flow increasing to EUR 668 million compared with EUR 348 million in the first 9 months of 2025. At the same time, capital expenditure rose significantly to EUR 374 million, in line with the investments required to support the group's industrial transformation and future growth. For a like-for-like view, the bridge on the right adjusts the reported position for both the EUR 1.8 billion of net PEM prepayments and the EUR 187 million factoring effect. On this basis, adjusted net debt would have stood at EUR 431 million at the end of September. As a result of these factors discussed, the net debt-to-EBITDA ratio stood at negative 1.4x at the end of September, reflecting the group's reported net cash position. More importantly, excluding the net contribution from PEM prepayments and the factoring effect leverage would have remained at a very comfortable 5.5x -- 0.5x, providing us with significant financial capacity to fund our strategic priorities and future growth. To conclude the financial review, our debt profile remains diversified and well balanced. Gross debt stood at EUR 1.4 billion at the end of September with 88% classified as long term. The average cost of gross debt declined to 3%, while the average maturity stood at 3.6 years. Our consolidated cash position reached EUR 2.6 billion mainly reflecting the PAM prepayments already discussed. In addition, the group had closed to EUR 1.15 billion of available credit facility, including a $385 million facility from the European Investment Bank earmarked for specific uses of proceeds. Overall, our liquidity and leverage position provides a strong foundation to support the execution of the group's growth plans. With that, we have reached the end of our presentation, and we will now open the call for questions.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Marco Vitale from Mediobanca.

Thanks. Just a couple. First, if you could just provide us a high level outlook on the intake for the fourth quarter of the year. We're expecting the launch of new PEM, we also understand that the political landscape could be volatile in the final quarter of the year. So just wondering what are your thoughts on the time of the plan? And second, on defense, we noted a slight say, profitability erosion despite the ramp-up in volumes. If you could elaborate on what were the key drivers of such a big slowdown.

Okay. Thank you, Marco, maybe I will go for the first providing you some color of our outlook to the year-end. So let me start with defense. We now expect around 80%, right, increase in terms of revenues, ex-space, obviously, in comparison with last year, right? You know that we have been verbally guiding that we will get around EUR 600 million from PAMS this year. We think we can clearly achieve that number, more than EUR 400 million from test. You have just heard CEO talking about this new 18 new units. And in terms of margins, we can end up the year around 18% to 19%. In the space, we think we can finish the year above EUR 400 million revenue mark. ATM, we expect double-digit growth within the EBIT around 12% and 5%. In insight, we expect revenues grow low single digits and with a similar EBIT of similar than last year base. So that's around 6.6%, and mobility revenues around mid-single digit and an EBIT around 5%. Just answering the third and the second. And I will let the CEO talk about the potential future PAMs. Regarding the margins on defense. Clearly, if you take out the test dilution effect, we delivered 17.3% in terms of EBIT in comparison with the 20% over the first 9 months we clearly expect, as we already said, a normalization on that margins throughout the year and finish around 18%, 19%. And basically, the quarter was -- these lower margins were basically explained by less contribution from the Eurofighter and the FCAS programs, which total around EUR 80 million in comparison with EUR 400 million of the first 9 months. So I think that mainly explains that. I will let the CEO.

Thanks, Miguel. And regarding the second question about the the forecast about the PAM progress from now until the end of the year, I would say that we should expect a similar behavior as last year in 2025, right? So this is not a decision that lies on our hands. It is more the Ministry of Defense in charge of deciding when those PAMS will be made public. But as an information you have just recently seen that 1 of those PEMs has been already communicated for Navantia, so we do not see any kind of indication, deviation or [indiscernible] of the PEM 2026 as we speak.

Our next question comes from the line of Juan Canovas from Westenberg Securities.

One from iguana for Reca. For Miguel, I mean, given the I know you've talked about full year guidance, but given that your EBIT is growing already at 42% year-to-date and the visit for fourth quarter, just redo guidance is only 24% growth why -- what's behind your thought in not increasing the guidance for the full year? . My second question regards in train I wonder you can give us some color in Slide #7, you put intra mine at the top reporting directly to the CEO -- but I mean, I guess, it is bared into inside. So the lower that you can give us some KPIs or some outlook.

Okay. Thank you, Juan. I mean, we are pretty comfortable reaffirming our guidance of EUR 7 billion revenues and EUR 200 million EBIT levels. So I think we are -- on revenues we are performing in line with our internal expectation. As you've seen, obviously, we think that as I just stated before, inside growth will be on the low single-digit area. But on the other hand, we expect defense to grow a bit higher. We think it about 7%. We think we will end up more around 80%. So I think we just reaffirm our guidance in terms of revenues and EBIT for the full year. And I think that we are exactly in line to deliver on our targets.

Thanks. And maybe about the second question regarding Page #7. So the slide opsin -- let me give you a little bit of background, right? So when I joined the group, the leadership team was about 18 people, right? 18 people around the table and it was for me kind of a Karaoke meeting, right? And for the sake of agility, decision-making process and accountability, it was absolutely necessary to reduce the number of members in the leadership team in that respect, right? This is why we went down from 18% to 12%, so a 30% efficiency. And in that respect, it has been driven by a set of functions, elimination, right, or emerging of different functions like defense and space in 1 block or air traffic and mobility in another. And here is where Indra Mine plays a role because I cannot anticipate that much because it's going to be part of the Capital Market Day -- but you can imagine if we put in the mine at the top of the company is because Indra mine is expected to play a significant role. As already communicated December 2025 when Indra mine was publicly explained to the audience, right? So we reaffirm our vision that Inda mine will play a significant role especially because, as I explained many times, intelligence, software, AI, robotics aligned with dual-use technologies and solutions are going to be a key differentiating factor versus non=intelligent objects.

Okay. So you're not willing to anticipate any KPIs on Indra mine at the moment?

No.

Maybe I can give you some numbers. But I think we are in remain in terms of no better than expected last year.

Our next question comes from the line of Michael Briest from UBS.

Great news on the space contract wins. I know the CMD is going to have a lot more detail. But can you say anything about the phasing of CapEx and revenues through the end of the decade before we get to the 2031 phase. I think pre-acquisition, there was talk of EUR 400 million of committed CapEx. Can you say something about the timing of that? And then just on insight, Indra Mine is doing well. Can you say why you saw the deceleration and you now expect margins to be at the sort of flat year-on-year rather than improving. Is it competition? Is it demand? Which parts of the world, which industries are exposed to that?