Religare Enterprises Limited (RELIGARE) Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Religare Enterprises Limited Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I will now hand the conference over to Ms. Hanishi Shah at -- from Adfactors PR. Thank you, and over to you.

Thank you, Ryan. Good day, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss the Q1 FY '27 business performance of Religare Enterprises and its subsidiaries. We have with us today the management of Religare Enterprises Limited and its subsidiaries. Before we proceed with this call, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in this call may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. The company undertakes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements to reflect the developments that occur after the statement is made. Documents related to company's financial performance, including investor presentation, have been uploaded on the stock exchanges and on the company's website. I now hand over the call to Mr. Pratul Gupta, Chief Financial Officer at Religare Enterprises Limited. Over to you, Pratul.

Thank you, Hanishi. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our quarter 1 FY '27 earnings conference call. Thanks for taking out time today to join this session. Before I go further, I would like to invite Mr. Arjun Lamba, our Managing Director, to give his opening remarks, after which I'll take you through the group's performance during the quarter. I'll be covering the financial services side of the business, touching upon REL, RBL, RFL and housing finance. Ambrish Jindal, my colleague at Care Health Insurance, will take you through the performance of insurance business. Over to you, Arjun.

Thank you, Pratul. Good evening to all of you on the call. I welcome you to our Q1 FY '27 earnings call today. I want to begin by sharing a perspective on what Q1 FY '27 represents for Religare Enterprises. This has been a quarter of deliberate measured progress for us. We are putting the house in order to build a strong foundation for the businesses. First, let's talk about the insurance business. Care has grown at a 37% Y-o-Y in GWP terms. We are the second largest stand-alone health insurer in the country. We are focusing on growth and doing good at it and hope to improve our ratios in the coming quarter. We have Ajay Shah and Manish Dodeja, who are our founding members at Care and who have been elevated to the roles of MD and ED respectively, and we have Ambrish here as well. Religare Finvest is well [indiscernible] MD at Phoenix. Religare Finvest is well capitalized with a net worth of INR 915-odd crores and a healthy cash balance of INR 600 crores. We have Srinivasan Karthik at the helm, Karthik, a technology-first with 3 decades of financial services experience who has joined us from HDB. [Technical Difficulty] Karthik is busy building out and hiring growth to commence business in the next 3 to 4 months. The housing finance team is focusing on restoration and rebuilding its franchise. The business has a net worth of roughly INR 180 crores, and we have about committed INR 250 crores further capital to build this business over the next few years. Pavan Gupta has joined us as MD and CEO of Religare Housing. He was earlier CEO of Muthoot Housing Finance Limited. Pankaj Rathi, who was the CFO from Grihum Housing Finance, has joined as the CFO. So you will be hearing more about this business in the next coming quarters. In our broking business, we are busy hiring and building out under the leadership of Mr. Vijay Goel, who joined us about 6 months back. We are building out our tech platform, the broking business per se is on the tracks. We are building out our margin funding book and also looking to scale up our third-party product business. We hope to see productivity and efficiency gains in the near future. We continue on our journey to put the right building blocks for sustainable, profitable, scalable growth in the near future. Before I end, I would like to comment on our demerger scheme and the recent communication received from Reserve Bank of India, which is being hold. I'm sure some participants will have a question around it. We are engaging with the regulators in this matter to answer any questions that they may have. We remain committed to the cause of delivering stakeholder value via this route. We will update you as and when appropriate on this matter. I just thought I should share this with you. Now I request Pratul to take you through the specific highlights. Thank you.

Thank you, Arjun. Quarter 1 FY '27 has been a quarter of deliberate building for us. We have completed critical leadership appointments across all four businesses. We strengthened our capital base and each of our business has continued to do intense work of preparing itself for the next phase of growth. Let me now walk you through the investor presentation, which has been shared with you and is available in the Investor Relations section on our website as well as on the boards also. I'll be referring to this presentation as I speak about the quarter. Referring to Slide 4. While some of the audience may have seen this slide earlier, I would just like to refresh everyone's memory on our business overview. We have two segments: Insurance Business; and Financial Services. While insurance is about Care Health, which is India's second largest stand-alone health insurance company, the Financial Services piece is constituted by Religare Broking, a securities broking platform with over 25 years of operations, Religare Finvest Limited, our MSME lending platform and Religare Housing Finance, our Affordable Housing Finance business, which is a subsidiary of Religare Finvest Limited. Moving to Slide 5. It just illustrates the recent leadership hiring as well as reorganization of roles. We welcome all this leadership, and we look forward to a great future here. Slide 6 captures the financial summary wherein on consolidated level, REL has reported a revenue of INR 2,358-odd crores against INR 1,876 crores reported in the corresponding quarter last year, marking a 26% year-on-year growth. The reported PAT is negative at INR 46.9 crores, mainly due to different reporting standards. The slide also captures the highlights of each business, which we will cover as we move ahead in the presentation. Further, on the demerger, the company has received communication from Reserve Bank of India conveying that post the examination of our application, the request for approval has not been acceded to. The company's team is engaging with the regulator for necessary course of action in the future. Moving on to Slide 7. This is the consolidated performance for REL. We have reported a total income of INR 2,358 crores, whereas the total expenses are INR 2,435 crores, resulting in a negative PBT of INR 76.73 crores. The numbers for the corresponding quarter was a positive INR 5.73 crores. In terms of segments, Insurance business has contributed INR 2,229 crores, whereas Financial Services has contributed INR 133 crores. We will discuss the specific performance of each business in subsequent slides. On a stand-alone basis, being a nonoperating CIC, REL has reported an income of INR 4.38 crores and an expense of INR 14 crores, resulting in a net loss of INR 9.62 crores for the quarter. I now move to Slide 10. This is Religare broking business. I'll quickly cover that. This quarter our broking business delivered a strong rebound in profitability, supported by stable revenue performance. We continue to strengthen our product ecosystem by enhancing our existing trading platform, advancing the development of our next-generation platforms, investing in talent across key business and technology functions and driving process improvements to support scalable growth. Alongside our continued focus on security and governance, these investments are strengthening our platform and positioning us for sustainable, profitable long-term growth. Now let me take you through some of the key business highlights for the quarter on Slide 11. Total income increased 7% Y-o-Y to INR 99.6 crores, supported by 13% growth in brokerage income, 28% growth in interest income and 58% growth in client debit book. The PBT grew 47% Y-o-Y to INR 10 crores. Assets under custody stood at INR 47,946 crores as on 30th June, 2026. Our revenue mix remained well diversified with brokerage contributing 47%, interest income being at 37 -- 30% and e-governance at 16% of quarter 1 FY '27 revenue. The balance was contributed by depository services and the distribution of third-party financial products. Moving on to Slide 12. These are key ratios. As I mentioned, total income increased from INR 94.1 crores in corresponding quarter last year to INR 99.6 crores, representing 7% growth. The revenue growth was primarily led by four business segments. PAT as mentioned, grew by 65% from INR 4.6 crores to INR 7.5 crores, reflecting improved operating leverage and profitability. On a consolidated basis, the net worth of Religare Broking Limited and its subsidiaries stood at INR 384 crores as of June 30, 2026. Moving to key business metrices on Slide 13. Average daily turnover in the cash segment increased from INR 330 crores -- INR 334 crores to INR 375 crores, broadly in line with the market growth. Derivatives ADTO also registered 10% Y-o-Y growth. Unique credit clients remained broadly stable despite evolving market conditions. For the P&L, Slide 14, total revenue at INR 99.6 crores. Sequentially, revenue has remained stable. Operating expenses have remained stable with the exception of employee costs, which increased largely due to strategic hiring across key functions and the impact of annual salary revisions. PBT for the quarter increased to INR 10 crores compared to INR 6.5 crores in the first quarter of last fiscal. Slide 15. Business is currently into a high-speed repair and investment mode. We have seen addition of new talent as well as gain in productivity, improving our technology platform and digital offerings along with expanding the product platform remains our biggest focus before we start aggressive client acquisition. I'm now moving to Slide 17, which gives a overview of Religare Finvest Limited. RFL is part of financial services segment of Religare and is considered as a middle layer NBFC. It currently has a core SME book of approximately INR 53 crores. The collection efficiency has remained stable at 98%. The PAT during the quarter was INR 15 crores and our net owned funds stands at INR 837.8 crores. RFL has robust capital position with tangible net worth of INR 915 crores and a strong liquidity profile with cash balance of over INR 600 crores. Stable NNPA stands at around 0.8% and CRAR is at 238%, well above the regulatory requirements. With the joining of Karthik, the focus of the entire team is to ensure that the organization is ready for the next phase of rebuilding and growth. The cash is available, the capital is in place and the platform is ready for whichever business line we choose to adopt. Slide 18 captures the trends of key ratios for RFL business. Total income for the quarter 1 stands at INR 14.4 crores compared to INR 19.3 crores for the corresponding previous quarter due to reduction in loan book and lower recovery from GNPA book, which has adversely impacted the profitability. Profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR 15 crores compared to INR 17.9 crores in quarter 1 of FY '26. Collection efficiency, as I mentioned, is stable at 98% and NNPA is stable and under control. These ratios reflect collectively the financial strength of the platform and discipline with which the business is being managed throughout its turnaround phase. Finally, on Slide 19, which is a detailed P&L statement. Net interest income for the quarter is INR 13.5 crores as opposed to INR 18.6 crores for the corresponding quarter last year. This is largely on account of decrease in loan book size. Overall, the performance reflects the strength of the team to collect from NPA (sic) [ NNPA ] pool and add to the cash collections, which should position RFL well for the next growth phase. Coming to Religare Housing, I'm on Slide 21 now. RHDFCL's focus would be towards self-employed and informal segments in semi-urban markets as a client where we see immense potential to grow. Currently, we have around 15 branches in eight states serving over 2,800 customers. Our aim is to build a granular portfolio backed by residential mortgage assets. Our average ticket size is at INR 12 lakhs. The organization has a AUM of INR 247 crores with product mix comprising 66% home loans and 34% loan against property. The company continues to maintain a healthy capital adequacy of over 121%, and we have investment-grade ratings from ICRA and Care to the tune of BBB minus. Moving to Slide 22. Our focus remains firmly on attracting customers from self-employed and informal segments with a strong capital base of INR 180 crores. From industry perspective, the affordable housing finance continues to benefit from strong structural tailwinds, favorable government initiatives and increasing demand. On a positive note, the Indian retail credit growth story remains robust with affordable mortgage segment continuing to witness leading healthy momentum. Slide 23 highlights the key operating and financial ratios for the company. The company reported a total interest income of INR 7.1 crores with an average yield on portfolio of 14.6%. The asset quality in terms of GNPA and NNPA is at 4.4% and 3.3%, respectively. The company continues to maintain a comfortable capital position well above the regulatory requirements. On Slide 24, we present the income statement. As I mentioned INR 7.4 crores is the total income. Operating expenses were at INR 12.5 crores, resulting in reporting a loss of INR 5 crores for the quarter. This summarizes the performance as far as Financial Services segment is concerned. I now hand over to Ambrish, CFO of Care Health Insurance, take you through the insurance business in the day. Over to you, Ambrish.

Thank you, Pratul. Good afternoon, everyone. During quarter 1, the sector continued to leverage on industry tailwinds, delivering a 32% growth in retail health and an overall industry expansion of 22.4%. Care continues to outpace market trends achieving growth better than they have seen. Highlights of the quarter are as follows. Our retail business grew at 45% year-on-year on a full premium basis. Its continued market share made a [indiscernible] jump. Our GWP grew by 37% again on a full premium basis. The company has raised capital of INR 150 crores through right issue during the quarter. Profit before tax [indiscernible] for the quarter is INR 163 crores against INR 102 crores in the same period previous year. Gross OpEx ratio for quarter 1 stands at 31.2% which has improved by 100 basis points as compared to previous year. Now, let me walk you through the presentation. I am on Slide 26. Our company achieved a top line of INR 3,247 crores on a full premium basis with a growth of 37%. Whereas, retail new business, it grew by more than 50% this quarter. We have a market share of 6.7% among industry and 24% within SAHI segment. Company has raised INR 150 crores to the right issue during quarter 1 and INR 200 crores of [Technical Difficulty] in the month of August 2026. Tier is consistently delivering high-teens ROE on the basis -- on PBT basis. Now, moving on to Slide 27. Over the past 4 financial years, the company has delivered a strong CAGR of 30%; in the current quarter, growth stands at 37%. Our retail health market share continues to extend, currently at 12.6% of the industry, 21.6% among SAHI. Right now, premium means industry data for retail health is not available. But just to give you a perspective, industry grew at 32% on [Technical Difficulty] basis and clearly 18% higher than the industry, leading to a gain in market share. Organization is a multi-channel organization, focusing on all channels, wherein proprietary channel contributes almost 45% of the total GWP. Additionally, this year, retail mix has improved by 3% on a y-o-y basis. Moving on to Slide 28. The investment book in this quarter has increased by over INR 800 crores compared to March '26, driven by strong business growth and capital inclusion during the quarter. Investment leverage stands at 4.3x. The portfolio mix consists largely of bonds and G-Sec, which constitute 93% of the entire group. Investments are predominantly allocated to sovereign and highest-rated investments, and their debt yields are consistent in the range of 7.2% to 7.3%. Moving on to Slide 29. As discussed in earlier slides, the company has achieved a growth of 45% in retail business. Retail has consistently rate has improved significantly. Grievances for 10,000 policies and for 10,000 claims both have come down compared to previous year. Moving on to Slide 30. This slide represents our digital transformation. 99.9% of the policies are issued digitally, along with 99.9% fresh digital premium collection. Over 85% of cashless claims are processed within 30 minutes. And we have a comprehensive portfolio of 44 healthcare products tailored to meet diverse protection needs. Moving on to Slide 31. This slide highlights the key capability of the company's robust mobile app platform. There are 13.2 million app installations, and currently we have 1.4 million active users. It offers a wide range of features, spanning online medicine, health check-up, and wellness alerts to digital consultations. Average monthly doctor consultationsare increasing by each passing year. And 67% of active retail customers are now available on the mobile app. Moving on to Slide 32. This slide compares the company's financial performance across all three accounting methodologies: Ind AS; n; and 1/n basis. Under Ind AS, as highlighted earlier, profit before tax stood at INR 163 crores compared to INR 102 crores in the same period last year. The combined ratio under Ind AS has improved by 30 business points to 102.6%. Return on equity based on PBT increased to 5.2% from 4.2% in the previous year. On an n basis, profitability improved by 4% with profit before tax rising to INR 69 crores from INR 42 crores in the same period last year. On a 1/n basis, profit before tax stood at INR 131 crores of a loss compared to INR 19 crores loss in the previous year corresponding quarter. And largely because of -- these are the [Technical Difficulty] on a 1/n basis. Moving on to Slide 32. For the highlights of the results given in the previous slide, this slide gives a breakdown on Ind AS P&L. Under Ind AS, the insurance revenue as in quarter 1, financial insurance stood at INR 2,947 crores, which grew by 28%. Insurance service results are in the same range as compared to previous year. And again, combined insurance service ratio has improved by 30 basis points. Slide 32, it gives the numbers on a 1/n basis, which again, as I spoke, is a transition year and hence not comparable with the previous quarters. That's from my side. Handing over back to you. Thank you.

Thank you, Ambrish, for the detailed presentation. We are now ready to take questions. Back to you, Hanishi.

[Operator Instructions] First question from the line of Naresh Naiker from Systematix Shares.

This question was regarding the de-merger. So in that circular, it is nothing mentioned about specific reason for decline. And can you please specify what specific concern RBI regarding -- is related to capital structure or promoter or shareholding pattern? And second question, sir, regarding follow-up on value unlocking. Is there any another plan to partial demerger like, say, Care Health Insurance or listing just entity if RBI objection is not fulfilled?

So -- Thanks for the question. So basically, the letter is [Technical Difficulty] what we put on and that is the engagement with the regulator. They have not -- there is no reasoning has been attached. We are now engaging with the regulator going forward. And we will figure out what the reason is and if we can come up with a better alternative that satisfies the regulator. That's one. At this stage, that remains our priority focus. We are not looking at anything else currently other than figuring this out. And then after that at an appropriate time, we will come back.

Okay. So sir, can you please advise approximate what time line it will take if...

I mean we can't -- I cannot give a time line, but we will make our best effort. That is what I can assure you.

We take the next question from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital.

Sir, I had a few questions. So first of all, on Care, so our combined CSIR (sic) [ CISR ] ratio is like 102.7%. And this is like meaningfully higher than some of the other peers who are -- who have reported the results. So if you can give some color on that? And also, I see that your insurance service results is a negative of INR 3 crores. So -- but if I just do the maths on INR 3,000-odd crores of revenue with 102.7% crores, it should come to be like INR 70 crores, INR 80 crores of loss. So if you can explain the difference?

First question -- I am Ajay, Sarvesh. So first question I'm taking. Second one, I'll pass on to my CFO, Ambrish Jindal. On the combined ratio, even if you see our track of last year, we started with 103% in the quarter 1. Finally, it landed at 101.1%. So this is because we write many, what you call corporate wellness book where the -- there is upfront claims payment. So that is the only reason for this. It will finally come down to the guideline which we had given in the last call. Last call, I had said very clearly that we want to become 100% in next 2 years, and we are sticking and committed to that. And on the second question I'll request Ambrish.

Yes. So you rightly said that if we do a maths on 102.7% on the revenue, we get a higher number. So CSR includes nonattributable expenses and all the expenses, they need to be bifurcated into acquisition cost, maintenance cost and nonattributable cost. So insurance service result does not include nonattributable expenses, but, while computing CISR, include those nonattributable expenses. So if you look at the presentation, after net announcement result, there is an expense item of INR 66 crores that gets added in the computation of CISR. So, if we add this into insurance service result as well, you will get the maths.

Okay. And this 37% odd growth, if you can break it up between fresh and porting and growth from the existing book? So, what is driving it? How much is being driven by people going for higher sum assured or because of inflation in the premiums that we are charging? If you can give some color on what are the drivers for this sort of a growth?

See, Sarvesh, I mean, I think there are few moments in the industry which are a land grab moments. Once it happened after COVID, second after GST relaxation we are finding it a land grab moment. So a few questions, one by one. Number one, our fresh business is growing the fastest among all. So it's higher than my renewal business growth. That is number one. Number two, my number of consumers are growing faster because my growth is primarily coming in Tier 2, Tier 3 geographies. So my number of consumers are growing handsomely than the average ticket size at premium increase.

We take the next question from the line of Mukul from MNK Capital.

Congratulations on good numbers. My question is for Ajay, from Care. Just the first part which you explained right now, it seems that retail has grown faster than corporate and our retail share is still higher than the corporate share. And while I understand that you book more corporate business in the first quarter. But from a mix perspective, it does seem that retail has outgrown corporate and yet our losses have come 1 point higher compared to some of the other peers where similar [Technical Difficulty] are there. So just wanted more flavor on loss ratios? That is one. And second, in terms of growth, while GST has given a filip, any guidance on where you see full year growth given a very good set of numbers in terms of growth for the first quarter in the insurance business?

Yes. This is Ajay. So we cannot comment on the full year growth. Till now the market has been supportive and we are -- we'll continue to ride the market as it grows, number one. Number two, our quarter 1 is not necessarily corporate-driven market. Our corporate businesses started well within the year. Quarter 1 is highly skewed on corporate employee business driven, which is a bit different than corporate employer-employees. And our retail definitely does better than corporate even in quarter 1.

Got it. So sir, any guidance on growth?

We intend to meet the market. That's all.

All right. Can I just squeeze in one more question, if okay?

Sure, sure, sure, please.

Just on the accounting, I understand that IRDA has transitioned to Ind AS accounting. And I did see the notes on consol also, they are under Ind AS. So I was -- I couldn't sort of understand why under consol accounts Care actually shows a loss because that is also Ind AS and stand-alone Care is also Ind AS. So if you can just explain me that, I couldn't follow that?

Yes, Ambrish this side. So I think the regulator has come up with the implementation of Ind AS effective 1st April, 26. We as an organization, we took a forbearance of 1 year from the regulator to stabilize the technology and other stuff. And hence, the reason the impact of Ind AS 117 is not showing into consolidated accounts and hence, the reason the consolidation looks on the negative side and Care Health Insurance stand-alone results on Ind AS are looking positive. So that's the only reason. So from next year onwards, we'll start seeing both the accounts or both the consol results and Care has been shown in results to be safe.

Yes. No, it came from the fact that we are actually a market-leading ROE business in health and the consol necessarily doesn't give the right picture. So the comment was from that perspective.

We take the next question from the line of Amit Thawani from Clear Blue Capital Advisors LLP.

My first question is, I was just looking at the leverage and our leverage is -- in the presentation, it is 4.3, which seems to be on the higher side for like SAHI business. Any comments there?

No. This year-end, my sense is will be reduced to around 3.7. Additional capital will be infused this year.

I think capital has been earmarked by the promoters through the raise of the pref. And I think some part of that capital will be flowing through. And I think that should -- the leverage ratio should come down.

Okay. My second question is that in the retail growth, how much is fresh growth and how much is port-in?

I don't have that numbers. What I can tell is my percentage share of port has come down drastically from last year.

We take the next question from the line of Meet Bhuva from Integrity Ventures and Partnership.

I think we are seeing losses in the Financial Services business, I'm sure that is because of the investments that we are doing to fund the growth that company is looking for the next phase. I wanted to understand what kind of numbers or what kind of growth or AUM kind of numbers the company is looking at in this Financial Services business?

So I'll just answer that question. We are -- The CEOs have just joined. Some have -- as early as, late as 1 month, and Karthik had joined us about 3 months back. What I can assure you is that we are adequately capitalized. The NBFC has a capital of about INR 1,000-odd crores. HFC has a capital of about INR 200 crores, and this will be further topped up by about INR 250 crores. So we do believe that with INR 1,500 crores to INR 2,000 crores of capital, we have ambition for about a INR 10,000 crore, INR 15,000 book size. I think we'll be able to come back on the plans. I mean the business teams are busy working their AOPs and all, and we'll be coming back to you. But be rest assured, we are ambitious about this business, and we will capitalize this business at an appropriate stage as and when capital is required.

Okay. And just another question on broking business. I think in broking business, there has been a revenue degrowth quarter on quarter. [Technical Difficulty]

I'm Vijay Goel. So as we mentioned, as Pratul mentioned that we are in the process of repairing our business. So a lot of things we are correcting and the markets were also not particularly supportive. So this is just a temporary blip in the business as we build the new technology platform and new products. We have seen the productivity gains. The annual increment happened, after that the natural attrition also in the business happens. So that was a small reason because of which there's a small blip in the -- small drop in the broking revenues. But our debit book has gone up and our interest income has actually gone up.

Okay...

Yes. Go ahead, please.

How are we planning to compete with the existing broking players? Like what kind of moat that we are bringing in, where the market is already cluttered with multiple brands focusing on niche and multiple brands focusing on full-service revenues?

So, good answer, you have to wait. We are currently doing this repairing and the clear direction that what kind of model will be built will be clear to us about in 1 or 2 quarters. And we'll be happy to discuss and report it to you that what kind of model we are going to build.

So currently, we are playing for productivity and efficiency gains while the work is going on. And I think in the first quarter, we have grown our income -- broking income.

So just to add on this, this is to do also on [Technical Difficulty]. So, our quarter 1 revenue has grown up by 7%, as we had in the presentation also. And this has also grown up from the immediate preceding quarter also.

Sequentially also.

Sequentially also it's gone -- It's not a...

Marginal growth, but it is a growth. So, I think work is in progress. I think things are happening. As you can see, this is our first quarter. Rest will be also dependent on the [indiscernible] of the market. But our idea is to increase market share as we go forward by also increasing our other businesses, whether it is a margin funding group, whether it is third-party products. Because we do have a platform and we believe there is some enough room and scope for it to grow. But your question is very valid. This is a scattered industry. There are a lot of people. They are doing niches. What will we do that is different from anybody else. But as Vijay said, we'll come back to you on that.

We take the next question from the line of Raj Lokhandwala, an individual investor.

So my question is regarding the competitive intensity on the health insurance side. So how is it shaping up in the recent years? And how is it affecting the profitability in different segments, the retail as well as the group?

Thanks, Raj. Intensity is high on the health insurance, we all understand and we know that. With newer players coming up in the market, the intensity only has to go up. But what is helping the industry is, if you look at the industry, even the regulator and hospitals have come together on defining few things. At the industry level, there are a lot of guidelines which the GIC has laid down. I would call them as protocol. They are not GIC led. It is government-led guidelines, number one. Number two, WHO-led guidelines which GIC has educated the industry. Number two, we are also making a lot of positional statements, positional statement on cataract and this. Number three, with the blessing of the Chairman and CII, the distrust between hospital and the insurance company is bridging gap. And two major things in that particular case is NHCX adoption by the hospitals. Number two is what you call proper code of conduct, both by the insurance company and the hospital. All these, my sense, will bring about the profitability in spite of competition intensity.

Okay. Fair enough. And second question is on the proposed demerger. So now that the RBI has rejected the proposal, is it fair to assume that the tentative deadline of Q1 FY '28 would be slightly delayed?

Yes. I mean I would like to think that is correct. But again, how much, what happens, I think we are -- when we meet with the regulator, we will get back to you, but that that would be a fair assessment as of now.

We take the next question from the line of Yash Mata, an individual investor.

My first question is, what is the plan for equity raised by Care Health Insurance since its solvency ratio is now down to 1.58% (sic) [ 1.58x ] as against requirement of 1.5?