Savannah Resources Plc (SAV) Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning, and welcome to the Savanna Resources plc Investor Presentation. [Operator Instructions]. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to Emmanuel Proenca, CEO. Good morning, sir.

Good morning, everyone. I'm sorry it took us a few more minutes than usual to get started, but I think we're just being in time. It's exciting times for the proposal lithium project and for Savannah Resources, as you know. We published our DFS mid last week. Finally after almost more than 9 years of work, expensive work on the field, extensive work on the resource on the geology on the mineralogy, on the metallurgy on all of these aspects that are so important for the development of a project like ours. We are now part of the select group of projects that has moved to post the FS stage. And so it is a very important moment for the Savannah Barroso Lithium project, and it's also a very important moment for us and for all of those who follow the story. You may I would say that most of you will have seen the highlights of the DFS. Important note to refer theses of FS Phase 1 of the project. So covering the construction of all the key elements of the projects and work through the first 14 years of life of mine. Those who follow us will remember that the resource was upgrading in September last year and that it covers not 20 million tonnes of reserve now, but 39 million tonnes of resource. And that it has an additional exploration target on top of that. So it is certainly a very good, very solid starting point, a very good first phase of work in a port that we hope will endear for and operate for generations for the benefit of those were part of it in the region. But anyway. And let me go through some of these slides that will help you have a better idea of what is behind the the very interesting numbers of the DFS and what we are expecting to deliver over the course of the next couple of years. And again, as Live referred, please do throw in the questions so that we can answer them. at the end of the presentation. Key messages of the DFS and before that recalling you where we are in terms of the shareholder structure and in terms of shareholder performance. So on the left-hand side, you see the current registers fund. And then the only change from the last version is that the institutional share has continued growing. The free float is still very strong. And these strategic sectors, especially CMG, the long-term holder, the 2 Portuguese industrial conglomerates that support us and all the other sector specialists that are involved have been very supportive of the development of the project. They have kept they're steady shareholding in the company and have supported us in the last raises than last year. So it's very good to have them on board. And we are certain that we have registered that supports the development of the project through the next stages that are so important for its future. You will also have follows the evolution of trade on our shares, you will have seen that value has improved over the last 1.5 years significantly and that we are now trading at about $160 million at around 600 to 650 and GX. We know that there is plenty to go. We know that a few global players are trading at levels that are a bit above this -- but we also know that DFS was an essential element of delivery that everyone was waiting for to see the numbers on the DFS. And now that we have, it is normal that we progress to other stages and that the valuation hopefully adjusts to the peer group. This slide kind of summarizes some of the key numbers of the DFS. And I would highlight a few on top of the 20 million tonnes of reserves now finally. And we finally have a reserve statements out. This allow us to operate for 14 years as referred, but on top of those. It is important to stress the C1 and the All-in sustaining costs. C1 costs below $50 per ton means that we can operate -- continue to operate even under the most pressing market conditions. And we can still pay our bills. We can still make sure that everyone on board continues to focus on delivering and then we can reap the benefits of that as soon as the markets recover. You will remember that spodumene and lithium in general, it's a very volatile market. It's 1 that has gone up to $8,000 per ton -- only 3 years ago, it has gone down to $600 a tonne, significantly above the C1, which is important, but it was a very tough moment for the industry. it has now recovered at least trading above $2,000, around $2,000 to $100 per tonne. That volatility will continue to exist, and it's very important that projects are prepared to endure those tough market conditions. And at the C1 of $473 and an all-in sustaining cost of $646 per tonne, we are 1 of the most prepared projects to endure those conditions in the world, and that's also something that is worth highlighting a position in the second quartile of the global cost curve, while being in Europe, while complying with all European regulations, while complying with all European obligations, while delivering a very good project for the region is a very good place to be in. And some of the projects that are to the right of our cost curve they include some of the best names in the world of lithium. You have a PLS building ore projects. For example, you have a [ Manon ] projects. You have a Bikita project you have Jianxiawo owned by CATL, 1 of the world's largest line based in China owned by the largest producer of of lithium batteries in the world. And they have an on sustaining cost that is higher than ours at stage. So it is very important to be in this position on the cost curve. The other numbers that I would highlight at all of those that you see on the screen are those that you see to the right hand side. One, the price at which this study was run, 1,788 on volume in 5.5%. This is below 2,000 on the spodumene and it still is a good number that can be a solid number to work with over the course of the next few years. We tried to use as many external providers of the data as possible to have to use a robust price deck. So it was, if I recall it, 7 price curves that we have used coming out of some of the most reputed investment banks in the world that cover the lithium space and also coming out of the 2 most reputed in the space. So when you put all of these press deck together and you do the average, you come down to a number as the 1 that is used. Again, below $2,000. It's -- we have seen other classes in the industry being used and using the press text that are a bit more aggressive than this one, but we believe that this is a good one to go with. After this stage, it's also significantly below the current spot prices. then just below that number you have the post-tax IRR post-tax IRR for a project like ours at the FS stage that is above 30% is certainly a very good IRR and 1 that we are -- just gives us a bigger obligation and a bigger responsibility to deliver in quality and on time. because that's post-tax payback period of less than 2 years and those of post tax and TV needs to be materialized and delivered through the benefits of everyone involved in the project, obviously, from shareholders, but also to future debt holders to society at large and to the local community. So giving responsibility of hands with very good numbers to work with. -- physically speaking, the image at the center of this slide gives you an idea if we were trying to achieve. It's -- it has a bit of a simplification there, but I recall of the basics of the project. an open pit mine, which is important for safety, for comparability, for costs. And it also allows us to do recovery as we build and rehabilitation. So that's an important feature of this project. At center of the image, you see the industrial facilities. So to the top end center, you see the offices and the entry and exit role system. And then you see a sequence of pads starting with the Rome. In the middle, you have the crushing facilities and just below, you have the DMS and the magnetic separation units the disclaimer also and the flotation units. To the right, you have the tellings facility, and you will see afterwards and the other structures of the project. This infrastructure allows us to deliver lithium for more than 7 million EV batteries in the first 14 years of operation, and plenty to capture of additional value on top of that, but these are already very significant numbers. What is also very significant is 500 on-site drops, more than 1,000 indirect and induced jobs, most of them, hopefully, in the region. It is a very big positive impacts for this region that should reenergize it for a couple of generations at least and it's also some -- one important part of the elements that motivate us to deliver these projects. Overall, as you read at the top end, it is a high-quality, low-cost, low-risk impact projects, one of the very interesting projects globally that helps feed the energy transition at scale. If we zoom out in terms of value, it is important to reinforce that the DFS covers Phase 1 and the box that you see in green at your left. Our expectation is that with more geology work, we can grow the reserve over the course of the next years and Phase II, a potential Phase II if it was to be delivered would hopefully get us beyond 40 years of life of mine on at some point beyond 100 million tonnes of resource potential reserve. There's obviously a lot of work that needs to be done to deliver these numbers, but we have a solid ambition and well sustained and grounded on data ambition to get to that Phase II and then potentially to a Phase III of industrial expansion implication of capacity of the plant and so on. If we go back 1 slide, you will see that the structure, the flotation structure has enough space to duplicate with time. It is also important to say that in the CapEx of this Phase I, you already have a significant amount of elements that would support a Phase II. And this is important because you want to keep optionality at this stage and you want to make sure that a potential Phase II and Phase III cannot only be delivered, but it can be delivered also at a very good and competitive cost and with the ability to implement them at an appropriate speed. So we're very confident this over the course of the next few years, we can continue to bring good positive surprises in terms of growth on top of the initial $900 million of bidding. So a set of key messages that I want us all to have in mind before we pass on the back to Henrique for a bit more detail on the numbers of DFS is one that this is a globally competitive project. It's better in terms of costs than most producers at this stage, even some of the best names in the industry in Australia, China and Africa. And not all of them, of course, but some of them, and that's That's, I think, an important confirmation of value and future value for Savannah. The second message is that it's Europe's largest project, but it is also a globally significant project. So it's not only that we are the largest in the region is that it is globally significant. There's plenty of additional work to be done that should with time release more value out of the ground and into the system. The third message is that it is validated and supportive, I would say, at all levels at this stage. It doesn't mean that it's consensual and no mining project is consensual. No projects, be it in any other industry or many other elements of society, let's put it that way, is consensual, but in the sense that you don't have support by 100% of people ever, but this project has significant support right now. It has changed dramatically from where we were 3 years ago. At today, the European Union and European Commission support the projects. The Portuguese states through various entities, now that we are doing the right thing, continue to have a close look at everything that we do, but do support the way we are doing things. And we have support from sector specialists. We have solid local ties and presence. And here, I would highlight these more than 10 partnerships that were done in the last 12 months. I will tell you a bit more about those, but they do reinforce that we are -- we have good friends in the region. We have plenty of people who have understood that this is a great opportunity for the region and with them and with our team, we can deliver these projects. Fourth message to reinforce that this is a low execution risk and higher penalty projects. the very traditional flow sheet, the open pit features, the stable jurisdiction, the balance sheet and cash position. All of these mean that we are in a very good position to develop the project and deliver significant value out of feet. On top of that, we have 100% control of the project, and that's something that is not as frequent for [indiscernible] at this stage. And it's certainly something that we want to continue to work on top of. And then fifth message as we deliver the DFS and as is normal things do accelerate. So to continue to follow the story because there's plenty of traditional news flow that will come over the coming months. We continue to be to progress the project for delivery in '28. So next year, we will be in construction in '28 closer to the end of the year. We should see first concentrates coming out of the product. And again, as referred, still this year, completion of partnerships, completion of conditional project finance, the build-out of the construction team and many other developments on track to be delivered, stated, I would say. Main elements of the DFS, starting with CapEx, OpEx and other financial numbers. Henrique, do you want to lead us through those?

Yes, sure. Sound is good. Just on the CapEx side, it's sharing so that going through the detail with the level of proper level of engineering, so we have reached to a final number of $283 million. This is in before contingency. The contingency that we're considering for this moment is $40 million based on the level of engineering, we have and all the aligned like equipment by equipment and its facility by facility. So which is a number, which I would say is a conservative approach. In this, this is net of the grant of the 75% of the grant that we awarded from the Portuguese government that will be disbursed during the construction period. Looking to the numbers on overall, we see that we have on the processing plant, we included logistics and around $150 million. of this number. We have to consider another number that is -- went up from -- since the scoping study, which is the bypass road the bypass road as you remember, is connecting the project to the highway in Portugal and -- and this has become as following the national standards and it became so more expensive. So it's now in the range of USD 60 million to be built. Remembering that this will be -- we'll have to have the DIA until the starting operations of the or such operating of the processing plant, they'll have to have it, but not exactly finished in terms of building -- but anyway, in terms of all others, internal all the normal so power supplies and all that. So altogether, you reached the number of $470 million with the contingency and without the grant. Can we move to the next one on the OpEx side. This is the good news for the project. I think we stay on the second quartile of the cost curve of the spodumene producers. That is a very good place to be. That means that the project will be -- remain as resilient in bad times for the -- that will like we had like 1 year ago, we would be producing and making money even at very low levels. So we reach below $500, so 475.5 spodumene concentration for the C1 cash costs and all-in sustaining costs of EUR 646 million. That means $705 million on the concentration for spodumene. So that puts us on the second quartile, very close to very well-known Australian-based projects, which is a very, very good place to be. remembering that even for pricing and all the costs, we are considering at -- in Portugal, so which we estimate based on the logistics, based on the international pricing and indexes that were available. since that will be the part of delivery for our product. Let's please -- on the sensitivity analysis for -- to the NPV of the project, obviously, that the project is quite sensitive as expected to price spodumene price. So that's -- so with a 10% change of prices up or down, do you have an impact of around 19% of NPV. This is office of the -- this is an impact, a very strong impact. But this is also true for recovery rates. So we're recovering rates going up or down. It has a very huge impact. We have been conservative in this for recovery. and we believe it can be improved as the project goes. Then on the other side, on impact is moderated also for CapEx, although very important for the beginning and very important to deliver raising funds and all that, a 10% change in CapEx impacts like 4%. Another just highlighting that for power costs, which is now everyone very worried about power cost, but the [ feviation ] is slightly so the impact is less than less than 1%. And give to you back, Emanuel.

Thank you, Henrique. We reinforce, it's not only power costs, it's also fuel costs, for example. It's the impact on the NPV spitimaterial. And so just reinforces that the project is very robust at those levels. Something that is perhaps worth highlighting, it's a detail, but it's potentially relevant. -- in Iberia, it's not fossil fuels that set the price for Power is renewables. And so that also gives us an additional element of resilience to shocks in these projects. Other projects would be tremendously impacted or more impacted by fuel prices, diesel prices, coal prices and so on, this 1 wouldn't on the power side of things. And even on the fuel side of things, given that the country is quite heavy on taxes on fuels and those taxes usually don't change. The burden doesn't change with fluctuations on brand prices. That also means a bit less sensitivity to that. Erik rightly referred the processing recovery rate is very important. And for that, I would restates the simplicity of the process that we have. It's the same as we have a scoping study with a set of adjustments that I will refer to. But it's a crushing unit at start set of screens, lease lines and the MS processes. -- regrind structure just before a magnetic separation in this line, and then you move into the microns volume in flotation structure. So crushing DMS magnetic separation, these lines and flotation, very simple from 1 end to the other. But obviously, there is in the bits. And the 70% recovery rates that we have used for a scoping study. is quite achievable with the technology that is used quite achievable with the level of knowledge that exists, both of the resource, it's off end of the process. And I would say that as we progress in production over the course of the years, hopefully, we will be able to deliver what other projects in the system have delivered consistently through their first years of operation, which is a growth in the recovery rate. Let's hope we are capable of doing that. We will certainly be able to deliver 70% as is estimated in the DFS. And improvements would be an upside to the numbers. I have referred that we adjusted a few things from scoping study, not in the flow sheet itself, but on the robustness of the flow sheets because we added on-stream analyzers, which have become stream in the industry and helped a lot. And also because we added redundancy in some of the equipment that is key for availability. So those 2 things should help and make the project even more robust. On the industrial area itself, I gave you a very brief summary of who we have in the last slide that we saw both. But if you want to have a journey through the process plants in the future, you will come from the north through the access route, it's 11 kilometers to the highway and it's an access road that is built for the project. You will first see the power substation, and then you will start to go down and down and down through the valley, and we'll see first the offices, the support facilities than the dispatch units where we press the products and then put them on to trucks for -- to exit the premises. You will see at the right facility and the Grande pit where we have drill and blast excavation, truck loading and holding operations as is usual. Part of those holding operations are 4 that comes into the [indiscernible] at top of the industrial area, then the ore comes down through the crushing facilities to the MS dilate and magnetic separation units and then the flotation units at the bottom. To the left, you have the left, the reagent structure in a mill, you have the water treatment structure, then you have a conveyor belt that brings the product back up and to address back billings units. A reference to what you have to your right, the mining schedule profile quite stable throughout the first 14 years. But more important than that strip ratio of 5.2:1. This is a strip ratio that is top of the industry, one of the best in the industry, and it is one of the elements that make these projects very competitive. So something that is very important to keep in mind. When you zoom out from this area that we were seeing just in the middle, the plants and the office facility, you see that the project is more extensive. It includes the various bids. So you were seeing run down just to the south, you have been at to the right, you have all the and to the left, about close to 6 kilometers away by road you have on [indiscernible] Noah. In brown, you see the roads. So the road that accesses to the left, the Occidental area of the project. but also the road that goes up is not faces independent roads. You also see in yellow, the power lines. So there is already this power line the high-voltage power line that goes from southeast to northwest of the project area. The project includes a diversion of that power line to allow the plant and going down to be installed, but it also includes a new medium voltage power line that goes to the right hand side to the eastern side of the map. It also includes the power substation in the middle and then all the water related facilities and other elements of the projects such as the waste terms and DFS. To the right, you see the 7-kilometer shared voice buyback a role that we will also build in sequence to the main elements of the project and that will allow with our next connection to the A24 local highway and from there, a very fast connection to options, of course, of which one is used as the best option and basis for the project, DFS. Another reference to reinforce that the the additional resource that is not a reserve yet. And the additional exploration targets are all within holding distance from the plant area. So no 1 has a victory or less than 6.5 kilometers away from the plant area, some of the other pegmatite surface are seen closer than that or just at a very similar distance from that. So the growth in the project can be done with holding distances captured and with competitiveness kept at its best. Let me just go through the Q&A, the questions that you have there, I'll ask. I'll answer a couple of them before we move to the other fronts that are in progressive that works.

Yes, we can do that. I can feed in, if you want, Emanuel,

I'm looking at these first ones. The reason we're holding the share price back, well, this is on share price. So that's on the DFS. I'll keep that one for later.

Yes, sure. There's a question there about land, which we haven't touched on as yet. What land, land needs acquiring before we can get into development. I think that's a key topic.

It is a key topic, an important question and an important work front. So we have -- I think we're very close to reaching 150 land plots already bought from locals. And the process of friendly purchases has, I think, been good and progressed very well in the last year. It has a limit because there are obviously a few land plots that will have to go through expropriation. We have spoken about that in past references. -- an expropriation process is exactly what projects of magnitude in the region go through always. So usually, there is no friendly acquisition process. There is only expropriation. That is what happened with dams in the region. It has -- it is what happened with roads, with highways and with other structures. We will have to go through that process for those plots that were not purchasable. And you have a variety of reasons for that because there are inheritance issues, because there are border definition issues because paperwork is not in order or just because there is this roll opposition to the project by a few of the landowners. That process is expected to happen over the course of the next month. We have announced it to the markets more than a year ago. We have started that process formally a long time ago, and it is going through the typical steps. Everyone in the region knows that it is happening, so it is not news. What is news is that we also have 2 lasement procedures that were approved. So these have allowed us and continue to allow us to work in land that is not ours yet, but it is already part of the concession area. On top of that, over the course of the next few weeks, we will tell you a bit more about some of these agreements in the region and some of them also related to land. So there is also a very positive progress in that front. Can we get another one, Asa?

Yes, of course. Yes. Well, I think we've already touched on it, but yes, there's a question just asking about are we expecting to sign contracts with clients. And I'm assuming this is in reference to offtake. Are we expecting to sign contracts with clients before mining begins. So I don't know if you just want to reconfirm on that front.

Yes, of course. I think, Asa, you just published an RNS before this presentation. The RNS refers to some deals that have been done on the ceramics and on the byproducts portion of the project. So we already have 5 of these deals with both national and international ceramics players. That's very good news because it reinforces the quality of these byproducts, although they are at LOI stage and ceramics is not a market that works with long-term offtakes. And so what we have at this stage is what best you can have in terms of certainty for commercialization of those products. The total volume that is implied in those 5 deals is 865,000 tonnes per year of byproducts, which is very significant. Note that at DFS in the DFS, only 600,000 tonnes of those have been included. So we try to be slightly more conservative than what these agreements could potentially support. The other front that is obviously of most importance is spodumene offtake contracts. And in that front, we have told the market that a process has been started, that we have accepted preliminary offers that are quite exciting. We have a set of those that are in analysis or in advanced discussion right now. So yes, before the end of the year, you should have some news in that front. I cannot hear you, Asa.

More questions now? Or do you want to carry on with your presentation?

Let's perhaps close the presentation and then go through the other ones. So these other 2 fronts in progress. The first one is financing, right, Henrique. So certainly one of the key topics for the coming months. And so perhaps worth diving a bit more into where we are at.

Sure. So I believe that everyone is very interested about what are we going to do in terms of finance and are we moving to FID now that we have delivered the DFS. Let's say that on the backstage, lots lot of things have been happening, and we cannot share everything. But at least here, we would like to share with you some flavor of the work we're doing and how we plan to structure it. So we'll be doing -- working with -- so a project finance, we have -- in the past, we have mentioned a lot of times the CF relation with the support of the German ECA, which is a way. It's also possible to go through a pure commercial banks approach that's -- can be slightly more flexible eventually. And we're also working on these 2 options. So that's what I can share at this stage. On that -- for that, so the basis and that's the requirements on the offtake that Emmanuel was just speaking about -- we have also on the offtake strategy based on the lenders' requirements. Lenders have some requirements because the project finance is based or will be based on the offtake. And the requirements just very briefly. So we have -- we plan to have 70% to 75% of the product under an offtake agreement on a take-or-pay structure that this is very important. Floor price may be required for part of the contracted volumes. That doesn't mean that it is for all and definitely not a fixed price. I think that's good news. Typical tenors around the offtakes is like 5 years. You would expect to have the project financed with a grace period below 10 years with grace periods for construction, but it can range from 8 to 10 depending on some other conditions. But let's say that we still have plenty of like 25% for 45,000 tonnes per year as still to sell on the spot price. This is a good news in terms of gives us flexibility, both from a commercial and also from an operational point of view, which is very good news. We are moving on the due diligence for -- with the DFS in our hands. So we have moved already before the DFS was delivered on the technical and environmental and social due diligence. just starting also the market DDs and legal DDs, -- we engage already consultants and we engage lawyers and they're moving in these fronts. So as normal, typically required by a project finance that we intend to close by the -- during, let's say, to put a date on that end of fourth of this year, beginning of the first quarter of '27. Finally, on the funding enabler, let's say that we are funded to deliver FID, but we are not funded to deliver long lead items or even pre-financial close works that might be required for some of the CPs. So if more equity is still to be required in between. So the sizing and timing still to be defined, but that's something that we are analyzing at this stage. Finally, on the government grant, as I already mentioned, so this is EUR 110 million that 75% will be during construction. all the grant integrates with the commercial bonds in terms of security package and all that, although remembering that the grant is not reimbursable and not interest bearing any interest. So it's a pure grant. Still how it fits into the funding structure still under review and negotiation, and that will obviously might impact the level of leverage, so more or less leverage that we might get at the end of the whole picture. And I think that's a summary of it.

Perfect. Thank you, Henrique. I think it answers some of the questions that were on the Q&A work also. So thank you for that. The other very important front for us is the one associated to local engagement. And this is because let's be clear, 3, 4 years ago, 3 to 5, 6 years ago, things were tough in this front, but also and more important because we want to be a force for good. We want to be one of the reasons -- one of the main reasons why this region in which our project is to be developed benefits from the project, prospers from the project, moves away from death spiral in which it has been trapped over the last 30, 40 years. And so there's a lot of work and a lot of energy that we put into making sure that we do things right in this front. We have announced to the market 4 deals, 3 of them with hunting and fishing associations that basically cover all the area of the project, all the area impacted by the products project. This was with the associations of Boutiques and C, the Association of Cano of [indiscernible]. We have also announced to the market an agreement -- partnership agreements with the regional hospital group to study a new local health care facility. You will know that a mining project like ours will always need some health care-related facility. And what we're planning here is to use it as a basis for use by the broader community in the region. So these 2 deals have been announced. The other partnerships haven't been announced yet. So I can tell you that they will be shortly and they cover a full spectrum of potential partnerships with local entities. This, I think, is very clear evidence that we are very far from where we were a few years ago in terms of local engagement and that most in the region already see this project as the force of good that it wants to be. But more exciting and more or even as impactful for us is the fact that we are already touching lives and transforming lives for the better. So we're kind of bringing new life into the B. And this just gives you obviously anonymous so as to respect the privacy of each of the persons, but it gives you a few a few of the cases that are part of our local team right now. The team that is -- that works with Savanna every day. On top of these impacts, you have plenty of other stories with the subcontractors and many others in the region that already benefit from the project. But we have a first-time mom since this month. We have a lady in the team that has come back with her family from Ireland for many years of work and life in Ireland into -- back to her own region. We have another family that has come back from Porto. They also have a baby. So when you put this together, it's a new generation for these villages that haven't seen babies or have only very rarely seen babies in the last decade. You have a couple that has given up immigration and has moved to Caro with us. You have a person that has come back from immigration in France. You have a couple that has moved to Canedo. You have another person that has moved to Covers, another one to [ Boutiques]. You have -- we're in our third new house rehabilitated or used in covers, our first new house in Canedo, another village in the region. And this is just the tip of the iceberg and just the starting point. But already today, even before we are formally in construction, a lot of lives already are positively impacted by this project, and this really motivates us to keep going. Main takeaways, again, before we move into questions. This is a unique project. I think it is fair to say at this stage and one that is already validated by DFS. It's progressing fast. It's supported. It's validated by all key external parties. There's plenty of news flow ahead. If I can leave these 5 key messages on the screen as we go through the questions, that's probably the most useful. Asa, can you help me with...

And thank you for the presentation, Emmanuel and Henrique. Yes, we've just got a few more questions. And if people want to send more in, please feel free. We've got a few minutes left. Just amalgamating a few questions here. And I think we've covered the topics a little bit here in terms of -- there's a question about how to minimize dilution for existing shareholders through the financing that we're planning. Obviously, I think Henrique touched on that with project finance and the grant and offtake finance. But if there's anything else you want to add on that front, please feel free.