Camden Property Trust (CPT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello everyone, and thanks for joining us for Camden Property Trust's earnings call covering the third quarter of 2025. This is Kim Callahan speaking; I serve as Senior Vice President of Investor Relations. With me for the prepared portion of today's call are Ric Campo, who is Camden's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Keith Oden, our Executive Vice Chairman, and Alex Jessett, our President and Chief Financial Officer. Also here to take part in the Q&A segment are Laurie Baker, Chief Operating Officer, and Stanley Jones, Senior Vice President of Real Estate Investments. You can access a webcast of this event in the Investors section at camdenliving.com, and a recording will be posted soon after we finish. I want to let you know that this call is being recorded. Prior to getting into our prepared comments, I'd like to remind all of you that certain statements we make today will be forward-looking, reflecting our present expectations and beliefs. Such statements don't constitute guarantees regarding future performance and carry risks and uncertainties that may lead actual outcomes to vary materially from what we anticipate. You can find additional details on these risks in the documents we file with the SEC, and we urge you to look those over. All forward-looking statements offered during this call reflect management's views as of right now, and the company undertakes no duty to revise or update them in light of later developments. One more reminder: Camden's full earnings release for the third quarter of 2025 can be found in the Investors section at camdenliving.com, and it contains reconciliations to non-GAAP financial measures that we'll reference on this call. Out of respect for everyone's time, we aim to wrap up within one hour, so we ask that you keep your first question to just one, and then get back in line if you'd like to ask something additional. Should we run out of time for anyone waiting today, we'll gladly address further questions via phone or email once this call has ended. I'll now hand things over to Ric Campo.

Thank you, Kim. The theme we picked for the hold music today really struck a chord. This week, we finished relocating Camden's Houston corporate headquarters out of Greenway Plaza and into the Williams Tower in the Galleria. That's a significant milestone. Camden spent more than 40 years in Greenway Plaza. We're thrilled to turn the page and embrace the fresh start this brings as we head into 2026 and beyond. As I walked out of my office one final time, a thought came to mind: "Don't look back." That brought up a tune from the classic rock group Boston. Its opening verse summed up exactly what I was feeling while exiting the building. "Don't look back. A fresh chapter is starting. It's been far too long since I've had this feeling. Wherever I end up is fine by me. The open road beckons. Today is the day." The Camden crew has no interest in dwelling on the past. We're eager to throw open the doors and greet everybody at our brand-new offices, and we expect continued wins throughout the next 40 years. Strong demand for apartments rolled right into Q3, making 2025 among the best years for apartment absorption seen in a quarter century, and that helped soak up an unprecedented wave of newly finished units. Peak summer leasing season showed up at the same time as stubborn new supply, softer hiring, and an uncertain economy — all of which nudged apartment operators to chase occupancy rather than push rents earlier in the season than usual. During this quarter, renting became more affordable, since we've now seen 33 months where pay increases have been greater than increases in rent. When affordability improves, it gives people living in apartments a stronger ability to absorb rent increases later on, after the new apartments that get delivered are leased up in 2026 and beyond. Right now, apartments—and our shares—can be bought at a discount, though that situation won't persist for very much longer. We continue to keep residents at solid rates, mostly because of the living excellence that our on-site teams provide. Team Camden, excellent work. The case for investing in apartments is a strong one. Demand sits at elevated levels. Supply is falling under the pre-COVID averages for the last 10 years, which brings the market back into balance. Rents remain affordable. Apartments give residents flexibility along with mobility. When comparing renting with buying, the economics now favor renting more than at any prior point. Both demographic patterns and migration patterns support additional demand going forward. We can't wait to move into a period of better growth once the oversupply that followed COVID works its way out. Camden sits in a solid spot, holding one of the healthiest balance sheets, and we won't face any big refinancings that dilute shareholders during the next two years. Sales of apartment assets on the private side have stayed strong, and cap rates on top-tier properties are coming in between 4.75% and 5%. Values in the private and public markets for apartments are plainly out of sync. During the quarter, we repurchased $50 million worth of our stock at a sizable discount to consensus net asset value. Should market conditions hold where they are now, we'll keep buying the stock; our authorization still has $400 million left in it. We can cover this by selling off the properties we own that grow the least and require the most capital spending. I want to give a big thanks to Team Camden for the steadfast commitment they bring to improving life for our fellow employees, the people we serve, and everyone with a stake in our business — one interaction at a time. I'm grateful for that. Now Keith Oden will speak.

Thanks, Ric. For the third quarter of 2025, Camden's operating results came in right where we expected. Same-store revenue was up 0.8% in the quarter, up 0.9% year-to-date, and 0.1% higher on a sequential basis. Occupancy averaged 95.5% during the quarter, which matches the third quarter of 2024 and is just a touch lower than the 95.6% we saw last quarter. On a year-to-date basis through September, occupancy averaged 95.5%, compared with 95.3% a year ago. As for rental rates in the third quarter, effective new leases were down 2.5%, while renewals rose 3.5%. Blended rate growth came to 0.6%, which is a decline of 10 basis points from last quarter and 40 basis points versus the third quarter of 2024. Our preliminary October results show the usual seasonality, along with some moderation in both pricing and occupancy as we head into our slower leasing period in the fourth and first quarters. Renewal offers for December and January went out with an average increase of 3.3%. Across our portfolio, turnover rates stayed 20 to 30 basis points under last year's levels, and move-outs tied to home purchase hit a record low of 9.1% this quarter. Relocating into new office space is never simple, particularly when it means five floors and several hundred corporate team members. The final outcome was absolutely worth all the time and effort our design and special projects team put in. Our new headquarters look fantastic. A big shout-out to Ben Mills, Chrissy Hopper, Luther Allenes, Kevin Neely, Amy Funk, Zeb Maloney, Teresa Watson, Blake Robinson, Pango, Derek, Aaron, and the whole IT support team. Last, we want to extend a special thanks to Camden's team of executive assistants for a job incredibly well done. We can't wait for everyone to have a chance to come visit. I'll now hand the call over to Alex Jessett, Camden's President and Chief Financial Officer.

Keith, thanks, and good morning to everyone. I want to start things off by walking you through what's been happening lately with our real estate, and after that I'll get into the numbers for the third quarter along with what we're expecting for the rest of the year. During this quarter, three of our older communities were sold, bringing in $114 million altogether. Houston was home to two of those three properties, while the remaining one sat in Dallas. On average, those communities we sold were 24 years old. These properties tended to be older and needed more CapEx, and they went for an average AFFO yield of roughly 5%. Part of the money we received went toward buying back about $50 million worth of our stock, at an average of $107.33 per share — that works out to a 6.4% FFO yield and a 6.2% cap rate. We also reached stabilization at Camden Durham this quarter and wrapped up construction at Camden Village District, with both of those sitting in North Carolina's Raleigh-Durham market. On top of that, leasing continues to move forward at Camden Longmeadow Farms, which is one of the two communities of single-family rentals we own in Houston's suburbs. Looking at the midpoint of our guidance range, our full-year expectations now sit at $425 million for acquisitions and $450 million for dispositions, down from the $750 million we previously guided for each of those categories; that means another $87 million of acquisitions and another $276 million of dispositions during the fourth quarter. Now for the financial side — last night we announced core funds from operations of $186.8 million, or $1.70 per share, for the third quarter, which beat the midpoint of the quarterly guidance we gave previously by $0.01, mostly because of a mix of higher fee and asset management income and reduced interest expense tied to the timing of capital spend and lower floating rates. Property revenues came in right where we expected them to for the third quarter. Given how intense lease-up competition is right now in a lot of our markets, we feel good about the performance of our property revenues, and it really shows how deep demand runs in the Sunbelt. For full-year 2025, we did revise our same-store revenue growth outlook, taking it from 1% down to 75 basis points. Property expenses keep beating our expectations, especially property taxes, which once again landed well under what we had forecast. Because of that, our full-year same-store expense midpoint is coming down from 2.5% to 1.75%, while the midpoint for full-year same-store net operating income growth stays at 25 basis points. Roughly a third of our operating expenses come from property taxes, and now we expect them to edge down slightly, versus our earlier assumption of a roughly 2% increase; the main reasons are favorable settlements on prior-year tax assessments plus lower rates and values, largely in our Texas and Florida markets. When it comes to the fourth quarter, we're assuming occupancy lands somewhere between 95.2%-95.4%. Blended lease tradeout should fall by about 1%, and bad debt should come in around 60 basis points, which is within 10 basis points of where we stood before COVID. Mainly because we expect fewer transactions in Q4, along with reduced floating-rate interest costs, we're raising the midpoint of our full-year core FFO outlook by $0.04 per share, taking it from $6.81 to $6.85. That marks the third time in a row we've lifted our 2025 core FFO guidance, and altogether it's a $0.10 per-share bump over what we originally projected for 2025. We also gave fourth-quarter earnings guidance; for Q4 we anticipate core FFO per share landing between $1.71 and $1.75, which at the midpoint works out to a $0.03 per-share step-up from the prior quarter, driven mostly by the usual seasonal drop in property operating expenses, favorable final property tax valuations and rates, and reduced interest expense, partly offset by the effect of the net dispositions we expect in Q4. For 2025, non-core FFO adjustments should come to roughly $0.11 per share, mainly legal costs and transaction pursuit expenses. Our balance sheet is still exceptionally strong, with net debt to EBITDA of 4.2 times. We face no meaningful debt maturities before Q4 of 2026, and nothing dilutive matures until 2027. On top of that, our exposure to refinancing interest rate risk is the smallest among our peers, which sets us up nicely for above-average growth. With that, we'll now take questions.

Hi there, and thanks for letting me ask. I was curious whether you might share some initial thinking about 2026 — the building blocks, earnings, anything regarding other income, or anything else you're able to offer about how you're approaching 2026 right now.

Sure. To be clear, guidance for 2026 isn't something we're providing yet. What I can say is that our earning will likely come in fairly flat, and that would line up with the earning we recorded for 2025. Anything beyond that, we'll share at the time of our next earnings release. That said, if you step back and look at the overall backdrop and what lies ahead in 2026, it definitely looks considerably better than what we experienced in 2025 when it comes to the uncertainty present. Consider how things unfolded during 2025 — clearly, there was an enormous level of uncertainty surrounding tariffs, taxes, and so forth. Much of that ought to get resolved as 2026 progresses. Another factor we keep in mind is the substantial multifamily supply that got absorbed during 2025, which we won't need to absorb in 2026. Like I mentioned, no guidance is coming from us, but for someone with an optimistic outlook, there are definitely reasons to feel optimistic as we look toward next year.

Thanks, that's great. You mentioned a gap between how the public and private markets view apartment values. Given rising worries about employment, immigration, and the government's push to repair the housing sector, I'd like to hear what you think about today's broader willingness among private investors to put money into apartments — particularly those capable of writing very large checks. Are there particular markets that come to mind where interest is higher, where it's lower, or where you personally feel more or less uneasy because of the macro backdrop?

What I'd say right off the bat is that appetite for multifamily is still strong. In fact, when you examine the volume of dry supply — sorry, dry powder — broken out by asset class, multifamily is clearly at the top of the list. Everyone is hunting for assets. The problem is simply that not much is available. Stanley, I'm not sure whether you'd like to weigh in on this.

Absolutely, Alex. I can add a bit more detail regarding where things stand with transactions right now. As Alex mentioned, conditions in the market are solid. We're seeing an abundance of both debt and equity capital. Bid depth is quite good, and liquidity is very strong. When it comes to volumes, 2025 is tracking roughly in line with 2024, which means we're still considerably under where things were before COVID — and that's partly because lenders keep modifying and extending loans. There isn't any real distress out there. On pricing, cap rates have leveled off over the past few quarters, with Class A assets in our markets sitting in the 4.5%-5% range, while Class B is in the 5%-5.5% range.

I'd also like to mention that we've certainly seen stronger sales activity along the coasts compared to what's happening in the Sunbelt. That's because coastal revenue growth is simply more predictable on the positive side than what you find in the Sunbelt, especially with the supply challenges we've been dealing with in that region. From a seller's perspective in the Sunbelt, they're looking at things and thinking, "We understand supply and demand are going to reach equilibrium eventually. It's just a matter of timing." As Stanley mentioned, lenders aren't pushing anyone to sell right now. Why would someone choose to sell in a market where projecting future growth has become harder simply due to current market conditions? Transaction volume in the Sunbelt is lower. But here's what I believe will occur — there's going to be a shift, and that shift will likely take place around, I'd estimate, the middle of 2026, when you'll see lenders stepping forward and saying, "We've already given you extensions. Now action is required." That will create pressure on sellers to move forward with sales. Simultaneously, by the time we reach mid-2026, as Alex explained a moment ago, conditions should be more favorable, and it will be simpler for people to project ahead into 2027 and 2028 and anticipate a highly robust rental growth picture, considering the supply dynamics we're seeing right now.

Great. I appreciate you making the time. I just wanted to ask how you expect the fourth quarter to come together compared with typical seasonal patterns. I believe one of your competitors mentioned a fairly normal Q4, possibly slightly stronger than the usual seasonal trend in Q4. That struck me as somewhat unexpected, considering certain headlines, and a portion of that coverage is rather dramatic out there. I'm just curious, inside your portfolio, given absorption figures that honestly, in my view, continue to look quite solid for the Sunbelt and across the country as well, what's your outlook for Q4 in terms of lease spreads versus the seasonality you'd normally expect?

Yeah. The first thing I'd say is, when you consider our portfolio, it matters that before discussing Q4, we revisit Q3. Looking at the slowdown we experienced from 2Q 2025 to 3Q 2025 in blended rates, it amounted to just 10 basis points. In my view, that's the smallest deceleration in the sector. What that indicates is we're beginning to gain some stability in the Sunbelt markets. As we head into Q4, our expectation, and what I mentioned during the prepared remarks, is that our blend will decline roughly 1%. If you consider that against a standard seasonal pattern, this is essentially what you'd observe during Q4. Now, this year, we did reach the slower leasing window 1 month sooner than we normally would, yet Q4 is coming together much like a traditional Q4.

Great. Thank you.

Great. Thanks. Sort of circling back and building on what was just asked — with lease rate growth picking up speed again like this, do you figure that will simply continue through the start of next year and on into the spring leasing season, given what's happening in the fourth quarter compared with what you observed in the third quarter? And also, is occupancy what's behind that 25 basis point cut to the 2025 same-store revenue growth guidance?

Austin, thanks once more for the question about 2026 guidance. We aren't ready to answer questions on 2026 guidance just yet, but here's what I can say: the primary factor behind the reduction — which is a really small reduction in top-line revenue growth — was not occupancy. It came from rate. The reason is that we wanted to be certain we could reach the occupancy level we felt good about heading into the fourth quarter; to accomplish that, we did need to lower rental rates a bit. I believe the essential takeaway we'll offer you regarding 2026 rests on what Alex said in response to the question from maybe two questions back, and that is that 2026 ought to bring less uncertainty. The uncertainty we face right now — we know tax reform is no longer on the table; we know inflation is declining. We know the Federal Reserve is cutting rates. We know a midterm election is approaching, which means the administration will do everything it can to ensure the economy looks good in November of 2026. The big tariff debates will probably be less of a debate during that stretch for clear political reasons. In Camden's markets, we have a 25% reduction in new deliveries. Having said all that, broadly speaking, when a midterm election occurs in this kind of environment, you're going to have — unless something truly goes off the rails — what should be a sensible environment for demand to improve and for a more optimistic scenario to take shape in 2026. Now, clearly, plenty of slips could alter that, but we'll see.

Thanks, and good morning. Ric, I suppose I'll return to what you were asking about — that gap between what the public market says and what the private market says — and ask how aggressively you're prepared to push on that, both with share buybacks and with dispositions? Very few really big buybacks have happened among REITs, and as a rule they haven't worked out all that well, but I'm just wondering, how far would you go on this in terms of size?

Looking back through history, in the period before the bubble and the tech wreck of 2000, we repurchased 16% of the company. Back then we had the ability to sell properties on Main Street for $0.75 or for $1, and we had the ability to repurchase our shares for $0.75 on the dollar. As things stand now, at today's share price, that represents a 30% discount to Consensus NAV; it's a mid-six cap rate. Today's market is a 4.5%-5% cap rate. Doing the simple math, you get a positive spread of 50 to 200 basis points from selling an asset and purchasing stock. We've consistently stated that we'd deploy capital that way whenever the discount was significant, and in my view 30% counts as pretty significant, and it stuck around, which means we had sufficient time to sell assets in order to fund the buybacks. Boosting leverage is not something we'll do for that purpose. This is a very standard capital allocation model. During roughly the past seven or eight years, chances to repurchase shares came along, yet none ever persisted long enough. Given the limits on how much we can purchase in a single day and similar factors, the window never stayed open long enough for us to truly make a material difference. Starting today, we'll find out how long it holds, and we intend to lean in pretty well.

Morning, and thanks for taking my questions. Could you discuss a bit what effect direct supply is having, and is there any way to put a number on how much that will help? For instance, can you share what portion of your portfolio is currently going head-to-head with supply? How does that stack up against last year? And is there a projected number for next year? Thanks.

I missed the first part of what you asked. You mentioned direct supply?

Yeah. What portion of your portfolio faces direct competition from newly delivered units?

Yeah. In every segment of what we own, we're going head-to-head with newly delivered supply. From last year through this year and heading into 2026, Camden's portfolio will encounter the biggest volume — the greatest quantity — of new supply it has seen in 45 years. It's everywhere. Sure, certain locations are holding up better than others, but every one of them is contending with supply to some degree. Austin and Nashville stand out as the two markets in our universe hit hardest by supply and its effects. All of our markets, to varying degrees, are grappling with some amount of oversupply. California would likely sit at the extreme opposite end of that spectrum, yet even there we still have supply problems and supply that we must work through. Every market has felt the impact in one way or another. The encouraging part is that, as Ric said, we should probably witness deliveries dropping 25% next year, assuming demand stays healthy, which it has continued to be across our platforms. Bit by bit, things ought to get better as absorption helps our capacity to raise rents and hold onto occupancies. Looking at this, when we examine particular younger assets located squarely in sub-markets flooded with a huge amount of new supply, we're observing meaningful gains on that front. A year ago, when this figure first came up in our discussions, we noted that roughly 20% of all our assets were facing direct competition from new supply. Because of the record absorption we've witnessed in 2025, the positive development is that figure has fallen to 9% of our portfolio as of today. That will only keep getting better as we move through 2026 and on into 2027. Another factor to consider — and I'll borrow Austin as an illustration, since it's practically the poster child, or poster city, for excess supply. In Austin, even the suburban properties that are older and resemble B-quality assets in solid locations are all experiencing that supply pressure. The cause isn't that they compete so directly with the new supply; it's simply that Austin consumers pick up the paper daily and read that apartment rents are falling, so they anticipate a deal. You've got a consumer sentiment problem in certain markets such as Austin, Nashville, and a few others, where despite less competition among suburban B properties, the consumer carries this mentality that a discount is owed to them, and that then sort of bleeds into the market, leaving you with a market where raising rents is impossible because of that sentiment. The moment that pivot point arrives, everything shifts dramatically.

Let me jump in here, Ric — Laurie speaking. Take Austin, where there's a fair amount of supply. Rainy Street is a perfect illustration of a narrative in which the tide ultimately shifts, and that shift can happen fast. Mid-summer, it was the community with the lowest occupancy across our whole portfolio, and today it holds the highest. Things are beginning to swing, and once that happens, my expectation is that it moves fast.

Thanks. Morning, and congratulations on the move. I was wondering if you could give some thoughts about what your team is observing in greater D.C., since it has performed so well this year and through the third quarter, while some of your competitors have reported lower activity. If you could just speak to that.

Yeah. The DC Metro area is still our number one market. If you look at the way it developed over the course of the year, during the first half, it was simply an extreme outlier when it came to new leases and renewals. Our belief is that the bulk of that came from the return-to-office push, especially on the government side. As the year goes on, clearly, we believe most of those people have come back to the office and by now have signed leases for their apartments. At this point it has shifted from an extreme positive outlier to simply the strongest market in our portfolio, which we are still happy to have. If you examine it, during the third quarter, it is our leading market for sequential revenue. It is our leading market for quarter-over-quarter revenue growth, and it continues to be remarkably strong. Regarding DOGE, since that is obviously something we discuss so frequently, I can tell you, we continue to see no proof that our consumer is being directly affected by DOGE. What we are observing instead is a change in the market in how our competitors are responding and worries about possible consequences from DOGE, but we simply are not seeing that at all. It stays a remarkably strong market. As you are aware, when we refer to DC Metro, what we really mean is the DMV, and the pattern persists in which Virginia is, or Northern Virginia, where the majority of our real estate is located, is remarkably strong, then the district, and after that Maryland.

Thank you, and good morning. I get the sense there's uncertainty, or perhaps less of it, heading into next year. Count me among those who aren't sure. My view is that plenty of uncertainty will persist over the coming years, but time will tell. Regarding supply and how it plays out in 2026, that isn't really a guidance matter. What I'd like to understand is your historical experience with when guidance — pardon me — when supply actually arrives, what's the usual story of disruption caused by that property, or those groups of properties, hitting the market basically empty? Does it tend to be a problem lasting 18 months or more, with Camden's genuine growth narrative perhaps not showing up until 2027, or does it resolve faster? Perhaps you could offer something particular about your own portfolio that speeds it up or slows it down given your situation. I'm simply hoping for some insight into how supply could affect things next year, despite deliveries declining. Thank you.

Yes. They are declining. Looking at our portfolio, if you compare the figures from Yardi and RealPage, supply in Camden's markets is dropping from 190,000 in 2025 to roughly 150,000 in 2026. Extending that to 2027 using their data, completions across Camden's platform would land somewhere near 110,000. The complication and the story you're referring to is that it's always somewhat messy, because when a project delivers, the data providers typically mean finished buildings. If they're detailed enough to confirm receipt of a certificate of occupancy, that counts as supply. In truth, nobody drills down that far into when an apartment community actually delivers units that can be leased. Consider the timeline starting from when the first apartments are handed over — I'm referring to suburban walk-up style product — from that moment, for a typical 300-apartment community, the average pace of leasing runs about 25 units each month. Roughly 10 to 12 months. Under normal conditions, you'd anticipate those units being absorbed across that 10 to 12 month window beginning when you first start turning apartments. There are simply many ambiguous areas regarding when that occurs. When does construction wrap up? Does it truly matter? Not really. What truly matters is leasable apartments becoming available so the developer can execute a lease. That's essentially our focus. Considering the average and the decline from 190,000 apartments to 110,000 across a two-year span, that's quite substantial. Should the demand side remain roughly as it is now — it doesn't need to improve much, just stay in this range — then a meaningful and favorable effect will show up in 2026. It's guaranteed to improve in 2027, since that cake is already baked when it comes to deliveries for 2027. My view is that demand deserves more of our attention than supply, because supply is something we already understand, correct? If you consider demand, 2025 stood out as the strongest year for apartment absorption in over 2 decades, even with the tremendously heavy supply that entered the market. The forces behind it are the very ones that have long powered apartment demand: migration and demographics. Right now we have an even more compelling factor, and that's retention. We're keeping more residents than at any point in our history, meaning fewer newcomers are required to sign leases on new apartments while existing residents are leaving. You end up with this genuinely fascinating dynamic in which residents everywhere are staying put longer. Mobility across America is lower today for a variety of reasons, and that is genuinely benefiting apartment markets. Turning to home purchases, consider this: 9% of our residents are leaving to buy homes. That figure won't shift anytime soon. Examine the arithmetic on homes — take median income for a home, or median home price plus interest at today's cost, and it comes to $3,200 per month, versus 2019, when it was $1,750 per month. Three big factors clearly explain this. First, home price appreciation has risen more than 50% in most markets, with some having doubled since 2019. Then you had rate increases, naturally, plus rising taxes and insurance. Even with a zero 30-year mortgage rate, the monthly payment on a medium-priced home now would run roughly $1,900 per month, against $1,750 in 2019. Interest rates aren't what's driving this. What's driving it is home price cost along with insurance and taxes. Quite some time will pass before you see residents leaving to purchase houses. On the other side of the equation, the median age of a first-time homebuyer now sits at 40, 40 years old. Prior to COVID, it was around 34, 35. Mobility among Americans has shifted enormously. Demographics keep working in our favor, and migration adds to that. Because of those equations, I believe the demand side will come in far stronger than most people expect. Without question, demand warrants as much of our attention as supply.

Sure. Hey, good morning. Morning to everyone there. Ric, let's stay with that four-decade track record you both bring. I happened to be glancing at a Camden stock chart — not to single Camden out — but publicly traded REITs have struggled in the listed arena. Perhaps the private side isn't faring any better, yet it does appear that privately held assets get valued more generously than publicly traded ones. So I'm wondering: across those 40 years during which you and Keith took Camden to the public markets, what do you figure is absent? Given today's conditions, which you just outlined — reduced housing affordability, a greater inclination to rent — could this finally be the moment when REITs deliver the results they're meant to?