Sivers Semiconductors AB (publ) (SIVE) Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning. This is Anders Storm, the Group CEO of Sivers, and very welcome to the first quarter 2024 webcast for Sivers Semiconductors. And with me here today, I have Lottie Saks as well, our CFO. So I hope the sound works here today. Let's move on. So we're going to -- today's agenda, a short executive summary, a sales overview what's happened, financial overview, market and business update, what's happening there and a summary and then as usual, a Q&A in the end. So, if we look at the quarter, it was a stable quarter with revenue in line with last year's revenue. And of course, it's been a very, very great year last year with 130% growth. So it was a little bit difficult to grow the company in this quarter. However, even if we are in line with last year's revenue, we are still -- it's still that we actually improved EBITDA quite a lot, almost 40%. And we also had a great quarter when it looks -- we look at the order intake. We have 4 huge orders in the facility of $100 million in sales and then other orders, of course, on top of that, that we have in press released. And of course, both adjusted and the EBITDA was in line in the same levels. And I'm going to talk more about these 4 deals and what's happened during the quarter as well. We've also seen, which is a good sign, increased demand on new business opportunities in the 5G area, which have sort of been across many geographical areas and also had a very good quarter when it comes to successfully securing funding with loans and other access and for the coming 12 months, which is sort of a very important step, of course, when we are getting closer and closer to a cash flow, operational cash flow positive and so forth. So again, the quarter, minus 4% year-over-year, but 35% improvement in EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA. And here, you can see a very positive trajectory as looking over the last 2.5 years about that. And we are moving in the right direction with -- you can see that Q4 is often a very, very strong quarter. And then we have also moving in the right direction on the adjusted EBITDA here in a positive projection quarter-over-quarter with last year's being up higher with really strong sales, of course. And also to understand a little bit, we're getting a lot of questions around EBIT and it's so negative compared to the EBITDA and why is that and so forth. And it's a lot of noncash flow items if you look at the EBITDA. And these are sort of running depreciation that will be there for quite some while, actually. And that's why we think it's at this stage for the company, it's more important to look at the EBITDA rather than the EBIT, which is sort of affected more with the noncash flow item. So it's R&D capitalization that is now depreciated over a 5-year period, and a lot of that are investments done in 5G. We also have some fixed assets where we bought equipment and others. They are also depreciated over a 5-year period. Then, of course, we have the MixComm acquisition, which was actually, at that stage, 85% share transaction, but even so we had to depreciate that value that actually came in that acquisition, and that's depreciated over a 15-year period, which is SEK 13.4 million per quarter that we are depreciating. And then we have leasing contracts and others, which is also depreciated depending on things over a 3 to 7-year period. So hence, it's important to understand, if you want to sort of estimate EBIT, you have to add these sort of depreciations of about SEK 26 million every quarter and then EBITDA, of course, which is, in this case, improved quite a lot compared to last year. And that's why we look more at EBITDA and EBIT right now because it's not so much we can do about these depreciation. Okay. So looking at the sales, summarizing, I mean, our latest 18 months, I think we've had a fantastic sort of take in our sales and order intake. We are now at about $42 million that we are working on and getting out in revenue over the quarters. We still have a lot of this. And as I just mentioned, over the last quarter, we bought in another $10 million. And we see a great pipeline and growth also for the future in both business units in that sense. Even if we're having a little bit of a slower growth pace in the first half of this year, we see that pace picking up again in the second half. And as we've seen for the company, we've had sort of a plus 44% growth over the last 7 years. So that is the kind of a growth we see in general for the company as we see it, if we look at it on a sort of a higher longer-term level. So if you look at the significant event, it's been a fantastic quarter. First of all, we started with the US Fortune 100 early in the year with an order of close to SEK 10 million. We also got another -- a new order from the European Space Agency about SEK 7 million. We had an order from Thorium Space. I'm going to talk more about that. We also appointed a new Chairman to the Board of Directors, and we also secured liquidity and supplement during the first quarter are going to go into how we secured those SEK 82 million. Also did a very strategic deal within AI Photonics for the next-generation AI solutions for SEK 30.5 million, which is just the start of that project. And then we extended a very important partnership, of course, for the next-generation chipsets for SATCOM with our European customer. And of course, we also announced my departure, which is sort of I'm going to stay all the way to September before I start my new job as a CEO in another company. So this has been sort of significant events during this quarter, and I'm now going to talk a bit more about them in detail. So first of all, the Fortune 100 customer. This was a very important step into the next phase. We are designing 50,000 lasers for further system design and advanced testing. This is a follow-up order on the 30,000 devices we got last year. And we are now at about $18 million over the last 5-year period for this customer. And this is, of course, one of the most exciting projects we're working on, and we're really looking forward to seeing when this comes to full fruition in a volume project. And of course, we've been talking about this many times, the volume project is pending that we're getting this back from the customer, but we have done the RFP and that is ranging from everything from SEK 30 million per ship per year, up to SEK 100 million per ship year, depending on what kind of device we will be in this consumer electronic solution. So still, we are waiting, but we're getting closer, of course, every day because the day goes on. Then we have the European Space Agency, and this is the first project for us with the European Space Agency and it's also a rubberstamp on the quality that Sivers has and the value we're building. And this is sort of the next-generation frequencies where you get even wider bandwidth for SATCOM communications and these frequencies are, of course, very well in line with Sivers in general and how our products are working in the higher frequencies. And the higher the frequency is the same thing in the 6G space, the more important for Sivers and relevant series has become over the years. And the partnership with Thorium Space, another SEK 30 million project focused on advanced validation of chipsets designed for space side deployment as well. This is the first time we're in the space side. Anticipated revenue in this year is about SEK 20 million plus. And this is also funded by a European Space Agency in Polish government organization. So a great project for us, and this will of course, secure growth and revenue over the year. Also, Bami Bastani, Dr. he's been working 42 years in the semiconductor industry in the US, been working for GlobalFoundries and the Board member of Global Semiconductor Alliance. And as a strategic adviser before for Sivers is now also nominated -- as he was nominated as Chairman and now also elected Chairman in the AGM and also working for time also as an Executive Chairman for Sivers Semiconductor Inc. supporting us in the US. And the liquidity of the SEK 82 million, how do we secure that? So we announced a loan facility of SEK 50 million, whereas SEK 35 million was a convertible bond. And another loan recently was also signed with the UK government, which is a 7-year loan for SEK 17.5 million more. And also, we had some previously blocked bank funds of SEK 14.9 million in the project with one customer that is now released. So the total in this quarter, which is very positive, SEK 82 million, and it comes out, I think, with about SEK 70-plus million in the end of the quarter, and we are reducing our burn rate as we go quarter-by-quarter. So, this is a really important step for us to avoid any sort of further funding for the company. And of course, this very strategic deal, this is a sort of an Ayar Labs type of customer, but a wider portfolio. Initial contract value was $1.3 million. And this customer is moving into manufacturing with us then hopefully around 2026. And we are talking millions of units per year in their forecast and of course, with a $50 to $150 per unit. That is, of course, a massive possible growth, including in this project. So, a very important step. Second important company in the AI photonics business for us, and we have a lot of traction also in this from the OSC conference, and we can see more of that in the future. And one of the biggest deals we did during the quarter was this SEK 50 million deal with our well-known strategic SATCOM customer. Now this is actually for the next-generation solution, and we already have a solution with these guys on the beamformer that we are developing, and we already shipped SEK 40 million approximately from those volume orders. So this is already in volume for the current solution and now we want the deal for the next generation that will sort of be developed during '24 and '25 and hopefully moving into volume production in the end of '25. So, now we're coming to finance details and Lottie, the floor is yours.

Yes. As Anders said, we had a stable revenue in Q1, in line with prior year, so revenue of SEK 56.4 million. The really positive thing was that photonics grew with 18%, which is the higher growth pace than we have seen before. And specifically, product sales increased to 98%. So, in order to scale on the business, the increased level of product sales is really important for us. So as you can see at the bottom graph, product sales increased by SEK 9 million in absolute value and the NRE product sales decreased to SEK 11 million. And the decrease in product development is because we have a really high level of activities in Q1 2023. That was partly executed by external consultants. So, I think what is important to point out is that revenue will vary over quarters based on the phases in the different customer projects. The portfolio of customers and projects are still not large enough to having them even out completely. So, the success in the products shows in the numbers as well. So I think on -- just looking at the quarter in perspective. Again, we had a really step change in revenue levels in Q4 2022, and we are maintaining that higher level. So we have several consecutive quarters on that level. And Q1 2023 again, was 113% growth. So we are not missing that in full, but almost in line with that. And on the right-hand side, again, to maintain the higher level of product sales, so in absolute value in Q3, we reached an all-time high level of SEK 18 million. And we followed up in Q4 of SEK 13 million. And now we also have a higher level of -- sorry, SEK 17 million in absolute value. So it's a lot of data on this sheet. But in terms of the segment sales, again, 98% growth in product sales. And if we see in the 2 business units, in Photonics, we have had for a longer period of time, a healthy level of product sales, and that also grew with 7% in the quarter. In Wireless then, we grew with 219% comparing to Q1 in 2023. So that is really positive that we are able to increase that -- in line with the success of our customers moving forward. And also, looking at the share of geographical split on an overall basis for the company, we have 36% of our sales in North America and 64% in Europe. But if you zoom in into the 2 business units, it looks a little bit different. So in Photonics, we have 78% of the revenue in North America and 22% in Europe. But if you look at wireless, at this point in time, we have almost all says focusing on Europe, so 97%. And then turning the growth and the revenue into EBIT and the profitability. Again, on the left-hand side, we compare the step change in Q1 from 2022 to '23 in the first level, and then again maintaining that level in 2024. So even though we're not growing revenue further, we are improving profitability. So looking at both EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA, you can see it's a clear improvement compared to corresponding quarter the year before. So, we think we are in a good position in terms of further, continue to improve our profitability and then following that improved cash generation as well.

Okay. Thank you for that, Lottie. Let's go into this market update. So if we look, for example at how the volumes in the SATCOM business will develop. And even at smaller volumes, you can see that the content here and the chipset you see here is about $10,000 per terminal and we already shipped SEK 40 million so far and in an early phase of this development. And now we sort of also bringing in the next generation here. So there is about 1,800 chipset per terminal. So this is important to understand when these volumes will ramp over time now, and we already shipped, as you know, SEK 40 million. Also, another important piece here is, of course, the niche in the track-to-train, which we are very proud to be part of, and we talked about this quite a lot before. And there has been some delays with the Caltrain electrification project, which was about to sort of roll out earlier, but the whole train system is now sort of projected to come into fruition in fall of '24. And then, of course, I want to ride that train and test our capabilities there. But that is a very interesting project to be part of and a great window for Sivers to show our technology when that comes to vision. And of course, it's already rolled out in Spain and the UK and the first carbon-neutral systems that are available for track-to-train applications. Also, as I mentioned in the CEO word, the 5G is now showing some positive signs. We had a really good Mobile World Congress, and we're now seeing new NRE and volume projects in many of these markets, and they could materialize already in Q2 and Q3. So we see projects in India, in Japan, in Europe and Americas with the even larger Tier 1 customers. So we hope to come back in this in the coming 6 months and give you some positive news on what's happening also in the 5G part. So that's been sort of a bit slower due to the changes that we've seen there before. And of course, the AI photonics for data centers is really something that we have seen a very positive move in now. And we're also seeing Ayar Labs moving into the next phase here and have discussions on that as well. And we have a very positive OFC conference in San Diego where we all were. And the reason for that, of course is that, the large language model for AI are growing and growing and the capacity for components and hardware is not growing explicitly. So that shortfall is where AI photonics will be very important because it scale with hardware and communication between hardware rather than scaling the actual GPUs in the future. And of course, you can do that only with photonics rather than electronics and where Photonics actually could sort of provide a 10x lower latency, 8x more power efficient. So instead of 100% of the power, it's going to be 10%, higher data rates, 5x to 10x and a cost reduction on about 90%. So this is a win-win for everybody to do this, and it's on its way to get to fruition. And as you know, we signed a very important project with Ayar Labs in July last year, and we're working on that now to deliver it. And then the next phase is going to be prototypes and volume prototypes for that. And hopefully, we'll come back on that in the coming 3 to 6 months when this project is done, where we will see bigger projects from them and also recently signing this new deal with a similar customer. And we're also seeing new possibilities with this customer short term within the coming year and also, of course, the big opportunity with this customer and Ayar Labs when volumes comes to fruition in 2026. And as you know, we went through the oversee here in the end of March, Ayar Labs demoed with us 16 terabit bidirectional data, which is sort of create numbers. And we also had a demo in our booth with their stuff for 4 terabit bidirectional. So this has really taken off, and we have more interesting meetings than I think we ever had and the team said that this is the best overseas we see ever already after the first day. So, very good insights, good meetings, and this is going to come a lot from that during the future. And of course, the reason for this is that, if we look at what, for example, NVIDIA do today, they can do 900 to 3,200 gigabit per second in the latest in day I talked about. And now we're talking about 16,000 gigabits per second and reaching 100,000 GPUs rather than 256. So -- and the energy efficiency is at 10% only used energy rather than at the current solution. So, this is going to be a game changer for building these clusters. And if we look at the overall products here, of course, you have the current data centers where you do the pluggable optics, then you have the DSD arrays where we are and what I'm talking about today here with 16 channels terabit and sort of connecting all the different GPUs within the solution, but also in the next phase a bit later, you're going to see photonic compute, where you actually used to compute the AI solutions, and that's where we also have with the new customer future when they get to that market because they are also a bit wider in their portfolio than Ayar Labs. And here, you can see the example of where Sivers are in this AI solutions. You can see the Ayar Labs terrify up there on the right-hand side and which integrates directly with the GPUs on the silicon to silicon connectivity. And then you have the Ayar Lab Supernova the frontier where Sivers has our DFP lasers and these lasers as a huge content when it comes to the ASP of this solution between $50 to $150, depending on volume. So as soon as this market takes off, the content is going to be huge for us in that sense. And just to elaborate on how big that market is, in 2025, there will be something like 15 million GPUs sold. And there is, of course, a 4-laser rates per GPU, at least. And adding this up, it's a lot of TAM you can look at. And of course, if we look at the annual deployment of 5 data centers, I mean, that's 20,000 -- 2,500 GPUs -- 250,000 GPUs in the 5 data centers. But current customers are talking, but depending on customer and their customers, everything between SEK 1 million to SEK 6 million of these lasers per year. So there are major volumes for this in the future, and we're already sort of working with 2 very positive customers and making great progress with them. So summarizing, if we look at the company over the last 8 years and the growth over the 7 years, this has been 44% growth. There are some people that are saying, where is the growth? There is growth and Sivers have delivered 44% CAGR over this period, which is much better than most companies have, which is important to remember, and you also have to remember and look a little bit over time, everything doesn't go quarter-by-quarter straight line. It's also ups and downs and depends on a little bit, and that's what I'm going to come to in the end. This is going to be driven by that we are now in the next phase coming into the volume phases, and we have already talked about that. Our wireless business grows hardware volumes and over 200% in Q1. So, we are in the right direction, and we're going to move some 30% product revenue to 80% product revenue in 2026. And that will, of course, increase revenue and growth. So if we look at that, and I'm coming to that now, I mean, summarizing the quarter, it was a stable quarter, but it, of course, quite difficult to grow heavily after a fantastic quarter as last year of 113%. However, even so, without growth, we actually improved EBITDA with good cost control, better product mix and so forth. And also a great quarter when it comes to new deals, SEK 100 million, building the pipeline for continued growth, loan and cash secured for securing funding. But then looking at the growth trajectory, we have said this many times, it's going to be lumpy quarter-over-year and so forth, but there are a short period now of consolidation during part of the first half, but we're preparing for continued growth in second half of '24. As I've mentioned, historically, Sivers has grown with 40% CAGR, and we are assuming that we'll continue doing that kind of growth on average over the 3 coming years, but it will go up and down per quarter. But having a long-term view of the company and that growth, that is a fantastic growth for most companies. And we are accelerating this growth, of course, more and more as we come into these AI volumes and so forth during this period and volume production is going to drive this organic growth by increasing the volume, as I mentioned, for 30% to 80% at the end of the period. And then there are further possible upside that this growth could be even bigger if we include the Fortune 100 and the other AI customers we're working with and so forth. So there is a huge potential for growth in the company. And we very -- we secured most of the customers already to make this growth happen. We don't need to add more customers even so, we do that on a continuous basis, and we are very bullish, I think, about how that looks like over the coming period. So, by that, we are now in the Q&A session. And as you know, I have a very small window here, and I'm going to try to open that up and see how we can answer as many questions as possible today.

Okay. I'm rolling up here and take the first ones. Any positive news from the new SATCOM customer from August, will they proceed new SATCOM customer from August. Not sure which customer you're referring to there. But we are -- with the customers we have announced, we have great progress. We just announced SEK 30 million and SEK 50 million project in this quarter. So we see great progress in general from our customers, and we already delivered also to SEK 1 of the SEK 40 million in sales. Any news you can share regarding the hybrid solution for factories, both for the Fortune 100 and Ayar Labs. Yes. So, we are looking at these qualifications, and we've now gone from 3 different companies we looked at out to 2, and we're starting working with them. And as you know, we're looking to do these volumes in the future. And I think we are in a good place to secure this hybrid solution. And as I mentioned, there are millions of chipsets that needs to be made. We can do some of the volumes in our own fab, but the hybrid solution is the path we are still working on. Can this sensor, the Fortune 100, #1, with your emitter and maybe detective be used for different readings or is it just for one particular reason. So can they first choose one purpose for this answer and later use the same sensor in different applications. I think it's possible. Right now, they're working on one solution, but this is a very wide band solution that we have created that can scan many different frequencies, so definitely possible to be used in many applications. Have you heard anything positive from your partners within the India 5G market? Yes, we are moving ahead there and we see new projects also with the bigger vendors and have good contacts into the OEM solutions that they use in India from Taiwan, and I think there will be more information on that in the coming 6 months. Hybrid, yes, I already answered the hybrid one. Have you met some candidates for the CEO position? And are there some requirements that TC needs to be based in the US. I'm not going to be part, I think, of the recruitment that is handled by the Board, and the Board is working on that. They have sort of a headhunting firm out working on that and are -- and I've seen the list of candidates and so forth. I think it is US-centric currently because we want to sort of increase our presence in the US, but more than that, I can't say. Have there been some serious proposals for acquiring the whole or parts of Sivers, if you do -- if yes, you need to present this to the market. We only need to present, of course, something that is valid. And of course, the Board needs to take into account anything that is sort of a valid offer and share that with the market. But we have had nothing to share at the moment for any valid offers that we receive. Sivers is your child and you are still investing in the company even if you're going to resign. Is there something you want to add to your resignation, add to your resignation? Not sure what that means. But -- I mean, I've been working for the company for 10 years, and it's going to be soon 8 years as the CEO. And for me, it's been a fantastic journey. And I think it's time for someone else to take over and I've also got an offer, I can't refuse putting a new company onto the stock market again, and that is a quite interesting journey for me. So I think it's an opportunity for me that I couldn't say no to, basically, and therefore, I resigned. But I still believe in Sivers and all the opportunity Sivers has is fantastic. And being a shareholder of Sivers, I'm going to have both the opportunity to be part of that and in the new company I'm joining. And good to hear that someone says good sound today. So we've sold that. Is Bami Bastani actively working with 4 Sivers now? And if so, what is his role and what does he do? Yes, so he is, of course, doing the normal work as the Chairman of Sivers Semiconductors AB. Then he's also working for Sivers Semiconductors Inc as an Executive Chairman, which means that he is more also active in working with investors, working with the ecosystem, taking part in meetings and so forth with the team in the US specifically and are engaged with many of the different parts there. SCS acquired Intelsat, do you think that will affect situation for ALL SPACE can intercept be seen as a competitor to ALL SPACE in this scenario. No. So Intelsat is a SATCOM provider as well as SCS, and they don't have ground terminals themselves. They sort of work together with the ground terminal companies. So I think that this is sort of a non-issue in that sense. Sivers is working with these companies also directly. So I think we don't see and we met both of them, of course, in Barcelona this year. So I don't see any issues with this. It's more of a consolidation move and SCS and Intelsat has sort of mid-earth versus geostationary satellites more. So it's -- they are widening their reach more, I would say, from SCS side. Any information about the ALL SPACE order, seems to be -- still be more than SEK 40 million left to deliver on, which you comment about growth in H2, does mean that the orders. So starting sort of the first order, I mean, we've had something like SEK 67 million in total. So there is about SEK 20 million something left to deliver on the ALL SPACE order that we have. Which your comments about growth in second half, does this mean that the order has been pushed out further. There is a little bit push in that sense, but it's no major. We said that we deliver a lot of this order in -- until April, something in this year. So no big push, but it's sort of a little bit of it. Any questions on ALL SPACE? What is the reason behind the delayed delivery? I mean, we haven't talked about the delayed delivery here. So I can't really say where -- who is telling you it's a delayed delivery. Amazing progress with Ayar Labs regarding the 16 terabit, so do you and/or potential customers consider the speed is good enough to start scaling up with this and faster connection before pushing solutions to the market? No, I think this is sort of the holy grail and the target for like 16 terabits bidirectional, and this is solving all the bottlenecks that has been looked at, and this is the target solution for volumes, I would say. And this is what we're working at, and you probably will see more on this with us and them to sort of how do we get to volume production in the next phase with qualification and so forth. How is the outsourcing for going with the Photonics? I already answered that. Any news regarding [indiscernible], we have solid solution from our side here already or does it require more development reaches before our parts are ready to implement. We have never mentioned that name in that sense, and I can't really talk about but that I would say. In -- if we look at the LiDAR customers, we are making progress. We're working with 4 different ones and they're all US-based. But it, of course, takes some time to get to LiDAR solutions. According to information given on the Capital Markets Day, so is aimed for high growth in '24. It will stay -- is it still valid? Do you see a risk that it may affect the statement? I would say that depending on what you mean or what we mean with high growth, I mean, if we compare to other companies, of course, last year, we had 80% growth, and that is extreme growth, I would say. High growth depends what you say about that, what number you put on it, but for the year and the budget that we are following currently, we see that we have a high growth this year as well. But it is more connected to the second half of the year in this case, but we are still seeing growth in that pace, yes. How many SATCOM customers do you have now? Is it 3 Thorium well-known European customer and third one? Thanks for taking my questions. There are more -- I think it's a total 5-ish in different projects. Some of them are we designing antennas. Some are more chip development. Some are the work we're doing with the European Space Agency and there are also others where we're doing prestudies and stuff. So it's around 5%, 6%, I would say, currently, and the pipeline is growing. ALL SPACE order again, where will the revenue come from in second half '24. Yes, it's a mix of all the different parts here, of course. The 3 top things I would say, is SATCOM, AI Photonics with the sort of prototyping ramping from that, as well as 5G business that we're seeing moving in the right direction. You will be missed, what do you think will be the most exciting part of 2024 for Sivers? Very good questions. I think it's connected to things I can't really talk about yet unfortunately. So there are a lot of exciting things we think will happen during the year. But already, we talk about things we talked about so far. I think seeing the AI photonics part with Ayar Labs and the new customer moving in the right direction. That is a big thing and of course, our SATCOM stuff. Do you have an estimated time frame for the fab solution, hybrid solution? No, we don't have an estimated time frame, but that is sort of going to support the volumes from the end of '25 and '26, something like that. So, it is some time before we get to that. Expect it to be done to scale up, for example, for the Fortune 100. Yes, it's going to be part of that scale up. And of course, if the Fortune 100 comes to volumes, which we are quite sort of secure about, but we don't know when. 5G Tier 1. There is work done on that, and there are new progress with that customer as well, but they have not come to a solution. We recently received a third prototype into our labs, and we are working on that, but it's a very long project, unfortunately, but it's moving in the right direction. Can you please confirm further on current cash position and cash flow projections? So we don't do it a cash flow projection, but I think that what we secured SEK 82 million, and I've elaborated quite a lot on that in the presentation. The SEK 82million, I think it's now SEK 70-plus million in -- yes, almost SEK 70 million, SEK 68 million in the end of the quarter. And of course, with growth and with cost control that we have, we see that this is sort of the money we need to have for the year. So there is no sort of more securities that we need to do any big things anyway, and we have secured that. So go back and look at the web where I told you about what's happening with the Fortune customer #1 and #2, they are quite sort of slowing on what they're doing. I would say we're not going to see anything happening there. They are in -- they have been in the testing phases, but we haven't seen anything back. And there's also been changes within those organizations where we've been doing those things. But there are, of course, many different Fortune 100 we work with as well. So this is not that we just have 2, 3 in the sense. When will they postpone 50 million ALL SPACE orders from Q4 be recognized in the revenue. So there is not a postponed order in that sense. We have delivered already SEK 40 million, and there are some deliveries that we are still working on that part. Where will the revenue -- that's the same question. Can you tell us the Fortune 100 venture which been headphones, watchers, ring or VR headset. No, I can't really go into exactly, but we've said it's consumer electronics, where it's going to be used. With the upcoming change of going to a new company, are you going to be more active in the Swedish night life and so forth? Best of luck. I don't think that's a valid question. How are you going to avoid a share issue in '24? You have said that the money is going to be enough. Yes, we are not planning a share issue. So -- and as you see, we have almost SEK 70 million in the bank, and we are moving for -- and as you see, EBITDA was minus SEK 7 million only this quarter and of course, operational cash flow. And we have everything under our own control right now. So there is no share issue that we are planning or have in the plans. Do you expect more orders from Ayar Labs or similar customers this year? Yes, we are. We are in the talks for the next phase as we started in July, it's a year ago. And as we said, after a year, we are into the next phase. So we are in talks on that as we speak. Is it possible for you to work with companies like Meta, Google, Amazon? Yes, we have solutions for that kind of companies -- in question about Fortune 100 again. Do you expect another big order from ALL SPACE and when? I mean we are looking to see if we can get more orders from them. And of course, it's all about their success as well. We don't have any new orders currently announced, but we have still some deliveries to do on the current order. Is EBITDA a good proxy for the cash flow receivers? Yes, it should be a good proxy, and that's why we're talking about that. But if you look at overall, of course, we have also some investments of CapEx going in. So CapEx, together with R&D capitalization and EBITDA is sort of the best proxy to look at our burn rate. And as we said, we are reducing the burn rate quite heavily this year, and we are going to sort of secure that, that we can stay and we have a going concern with the money we have for currently. Thanks for the answer. Are you looking for the Fortune 100 this year and long term to do a pilot line? So the pilot line we sort of have in our in-house, so we can deliver and build the pilot and as you see, we're delivering 30,000 and 50,000 chipsets without any sort of heavy issues with that. However, we need to sort of scale that now into the hybrid solution, and that's where we look on how to do that. How is it going with Fujikura? They are making progress. You might have seen them. They were in Mobile World Congress. They're doing the 60 gig solutions for many different Japanese companies, but we haven't seen any major orders, and they are still sort of in small volumes. We expect to see more as we go ahead, of course. Do you expect Sivers to reach black figures this year? I mean, we had -- we haven't done any forecast yet for this year externally, but we expect to have better sales this year than we had last year, i.e., growing, which means that we had a full positive EBITDA second half of 2023. So in that sense, the total number should be better than last year. So, depending on what you mean with black figures on which sort of line you see them, but we are going in the right direction. And looking at EBIT, as I mentioned, we have about SEK 25 million of depreciation every quarter, which is noncash flow items. So if you look at that line, no, we're not going to be able to reach that. Any news from KREEMO? There has been very little news from KREEMO currently, and they have been working on their solution, and there is very little news in there actually. Fixed wireless access progress, yes, I mean, we have a few customers that buying stuff there, but their volumes are quite small. And as we said before, 5G is sort of coming back now, and I think we'll see more of that, especially in the coming 6 months when it comes to projects, especially in India for fixed wireless access. Fortune 100 product, we have not said any date when that will come out. There is a question here, it's out in '24. We haven't got any confirmation. And as soon as we get the confirmation, we will, of course, share that. Will there be a Capital Markets Day also this year even after you have left? I hope so. We normally do that in the autumn, and there's a new CEO. So, we have to ask that person if that could pull that together. But I really hope so in that sense. With SEK 100 million of new orders in the quarter, what is the current size of the total order book? So, we have chosen to not sort of talk about the full order book. We talk a little bit about the orders that we are press releasing. And that are normally orders that are -- if they're sort of standard orders above SEK 5 million. Everything below that, we don't do press releasing. So the order book is bigger than the press releases and then, of course, if you look at the press releases that we have for over the last 18 months with $42 million, I would say that we've sort of worked through that at about 60%, maybe plus the SEK 100 million on top of that. So, there is a lot of things in the order book we can still work on. Do you speak to new customers, Fortune 100? Yes, constantly. And we're meeting them at Mobile World Congress and overseas, and there's a lot of them, and we have the right solutions in many areas to address. How it doing with the Tier 1? Yes, I mentioned that before, the Tier 1 is the technology we got back recently. And when the repeater customer, I don't think they repeat the customer will come to fruition. We don't think that we did, but we see new repeat the customers that could be part of the solution here in the future. AirVine -- is AirVine growing, yes, they are growing. We are getting constant orders, but they are still not a huge company. They are a startup, but I think it's a very important customer for us in the future when they sort of will grow more than just now on a big fair WiFi now as you might have seen on the Internet. Any news on Intel [indiscernible]? That network are ongoing in India. And as I mentioned, I think we'll hear more about India here in the coming 6 months. Any news on black well? I mean, the black well is the NVIDIA solution that I released recently. And that solution is sort of Sivers, not included in. And in the future, when Ayar Labs is going to get into the sort of NVIDIA solutions that will, of course, be announced. But in the black well solution, we're not part of it today, they're still on electrical IO in that sense. Will we get some new customer names this year? as I'm quite sure, and you already sort of seen some customers that we haven't mentioned by name, but you've already seen that in the first quarter as well. Can you talk a little bit about DARPA and new collaboration with this PseudolithIC timeline and so forth? Yes. I mean that is an ongoing project. I think there is a lot of other projects along those lines in the US, where we have some very exciting projects with some companies. And I think that also will be part of something we'll announce the coming 6 to 8 months, something like that. So, that product is ongoing, and it's sort of a monolithic packaging project that we're working on. When do you think NVIDIA will announce Optical I/O? I'm not sure actually when they will do that. And of course, it's all up to our customers, and they are not really sharing 100% where they are in those discussions. But my estimate is that in -- by at least the end of 2026, there will be volumes for Optical I/O with some of the major players in this space. Okay. You see that the share price is down 13% on your report. Are you happy? I don't really talk about the share price. We work on this long term. And as I mentioned, some quarters are up, some are down. We had a fantastic quarter in Q4 and the share price did move down then as well. So, I would say it's -- you can't, as a CEO, look at the share price total. You need to look at the long plan at what you're working at. And as I said, I mentioned over the coming 3 years, we are expecting to still stay at the CAGR of 40%. If you can find other companies that can do that, you can invest in them. We are seeing that we are in the -- moving in the right direction. So that is, of course, up to the market to decide short and long term, what you want to do. Has made common momentum been able to do 16 lasers than as Ayar Labs? Yes, I think MACOM is also part of this. And as you saw in the press release and in videos from that event, they mentioned MACOM and Sivers. So I think we're coming up and we actually have no more questions. And I would like to thank you all for listening in. We had quite a lot of attendance today. Over 150 people, I think was working. So thank you so much, everybody, and be short to hear more about Sivers in the coming months. Thank you. Bye-bye.