Sandisk Corporation (SNDK) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and welcome to Sandisk's Fourth Quarter Fiscal Year 2026 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Ivan Donaldson, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Before we begin, please note that today's discussion will contain forward-looking statements based on management's current assumptions and expectations, which are subject to various risks and uncertainties. These forward-looking statements include expectations for our technology and product portfolio, our business plans and performance, our capital allocation priorities, market trends and opportunities and our future financial results. We assume no obligation to update these statements. Please refer to our annual report on Form 10-K and our other filings with the SEC for more information on the risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations. We will also make references to non-GAAP financial measures today. Reconciliations between the non-GAAP and comparable GAAP financial measures are included in the written materials posted in the Investor Relations section of our website. With that, I'll turn the call over to David.

Thanks, Ivan. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining Sandisk's Fiscal Fourth Quarter Earnings Call. As we close fiscal year '26, we believe Sandisk is in a strong strategic position to deliver for our shareholders and customers. The strategic actions we have taken over the past year have established a stronger foundation through technology leadership, longer-term customer partnerships, financial flexibility and operational capabilities, which collectively position us well for the next stage of execution, growth and shareholder returns. Over the past year, we strengthened our portfolio with BiCS leadership across both TLC and QLC and the continued advancement of high-bandwidth flash. Established Datacenter as a major pillar of growth, deepened customer relationships through multiyear partnerships enabled by our New Business Models, our NBMs, with momentum continuing to build during the quarter. We reinforced our supply chain and transformed our business model with a net cash balance sheet and the capital allocation framework designed to generate growing and durable free cash flow to reinvest in the business and return excess capital to shareholders. The fiscal fourth quarter provided our clearest proof point yet. We delivered record revenue, gross margin and earnings per share, each above the high end of our guidance and repurchased $4.5 billion of company stock. We are encouraged by this progress and believe the long-term earnings power, cash generation and resilience of this business will become increasingly evident as we execute against this new foundation. Underlying our performance is the most important force in our market, the Era of Inference. AI is fundamentally a memory-centric storage-intensive problem. And it is reshaping the demand equation for NAND. The shift to inference in agentic AI is generating data at a scale that is redefining storage requirements. Every AI interaction creates content that must be stored, retrieved and served at low latency. And each of these steps relies on data storage products, including our high-capacity enterprise SSDs. NAND is the most scalable semiconductor technology in the world, and it has become a critical component of the AI architecture. This demand is anchored in strategic long-term infrastructure investments by the world's largest technology companies, which are increasingly working with suppliers who can scale, partner with them, and secure supply that ensures performance and reliability years in advance. These enduring and mutually beneficial partnerships give customers greater confidence in long-term supply while giving Sandisk clearer visibility into demand and a stronger foundation for planning, investment and more durable cash flow generation. Our technology leadership is how we are capturing this opportunity. BiCS has become recognized as an industry gold standard for NAND. And this year we ramped BiCS 8 to the majority of our bit production, delivering industry-leading performance, density and power efficiency across both TLC and QLC. BiCS 8 was enabled by innovations like CBA, hybrid wafer bonding. And our road map builds on that same fundamental approach with future generations extending performance and cost leadership through continued innovation across multiple dimensions of scaling. Our leadership is translating directly into customer adoption across our various end markets. We scaled our compute focused TLC enterprise SSDs across a broad set of hyperscale and AI infrastructure customers. And this quarter, we began shipping our QLC Stargate platform for revenue, giving us a complete complementary portfolio spanning performance-intensive compute workloads and high-capacity AI data lakes. A year ago, Datacenter represented roughly 12% of our bits. Exiting fiscal year '26, it represents 38% of our portfolio and is our fastest-growing end market. Our technology leadership also extends well beyond Datacenter. Edge remains a large and strategically important end market for Sandisk, spanning smartphones, PCs, tablets and an expanding set of emerging use cases in the realm of physical AI, including automotive, robotics and on-device agentic AI. Near term, both PCs and smartphones are working through a period of adjustment as demand is shifting towards AI-enabled devices and premium configurations, driving higher storage content, particularly in smartphones. In the PC market, OEMs are growing revenue and expanding margin on a more profitable mix, reflecting demand for higher-end devices. We expect these markets to return to growth in calendar year '27. And over the longer term, on device AI, richer content and entirely new form factors will continue to expand the role of high-performance flash at the Edge. Our ability to deliver high-performance density and power efficiency positions us well as these platforms evolve, and we expect increases in content per device through future refresh cycles. Sandisk's global consumer presence remains a meaningful differentiator within the industry, giving us a unique connection with end users and channel partners. We continue to invest behind the brand, sharpen our go-to-market capabilities and innovate around the products, capabilities and experiences that consumers value. Our ability to innovate at this level is enabled by our operational excellence. Sandisk manages the entire value chain from the design of the NAND die through front-end wafer manufacturing at some of the largest fab complexes in the world with our JV partner to system-level design including our world-class controllers and final back-end assembly and test, all the way to the hands of our customers. This end-to-end integration, combined with our R&D depth, proprietary BiCS systems expertise and the market diversity that gives us the optionality to direct our technology where it delivers the most value is what enables us to serve customers at attractive returns. Just as important, we grow supply primarily through nodal transitions rather than wafer additions, delivering mid- to high teens bit growth from the productivity of our technology road map with capital intensity that continues to decline as a percentage of revenue. This is a structural advantage and what makes this franchise such a powerful cash generator. With that, I'll turn the call over to Luis for an update on our new business models and a deeper dive into our financial performance and guidance.

Thank you, David. Fiscal year 2026 was a transformational year for Sandisk. We exited the year significantly stronger than when we entered it. We believe that we're well positioned to create sustainable value for customers and shareholders. Our new business models or NBMs reflect the stronger and longer-term partnerships that we're building with our most strategic customers, the value they place on our technology and products and the confidence that they have in their demand. Our revenue growth, margin expansion and asset efficiency enables us to deliver leading free cash flow per share and therefore, generate an attractive return to shareholders. Since announcing 5 NBMs during our April earnings call, we have signed 5 additional agreements, 3 NBMs with new customers and 2 deals expanding on previously signed NBMs. These expansions reflect our customers strengthening demand exceeding their prior estimates. One of the 5 signed deals, 3 closed before the end of the fourth quarter and 2 closed after quarter end. In total, we now have NBMs with 8 diverse Datacenter and Edge customers and reflect the conviction our customers have in their long-term demand and the value they place on Sandisk. The length of our NBMs varies extending up to 5 years with a weighted average duration of over 4 years. We expect our NBMs to represent more than 50% of our bits in fiscal year 2027, and approximately 2/3 of our bits in fiscal year 2028. NBMs are quickly becoming our predominant way of doing business. We will continue supporting our non-NBM business with uncommitted supply. Pricing for our NBMs include both fixed and variable elements with a variable portion subject to floors and ceilings. We expect attractive margins even at floor pricing. Pricing of our non-NBM business will fluctuate with the market. The total expected revenue from all our NBMs we have signed is a minimum of $93.9 billion, assuming floor pricing. We believe actual revenue will be above that minimum. The remaining performance obligation, or RPO, at the end of the quarter was $59.8 billion and would be $91.1 billion including the 2 NBMs signed after the quarter closed. The difference between the total NBM revenue and the RPO is the revenue that has already been recognized. Each one of our NBMs include financial guarantees through a combination of cash deposits and financial instruments totaling $16.5 billion, which are intended to protect Sandisk if a customer fails to satisfy its purchase obligations under these agreements. These funds and financial instruments are mostly held by or provided through third-party financial institutions with the remaining in our cash balance. For each of the existing deals, the financial guarantees are released towards the end of the agreement. So the ratio between the financial guarantees and the remaining performance obligation increases over time. Our NBMs are built on clear and detailed supply and demand agreements defined by year and by quarter. These features provide clear visibility for our operations and additional financial protection. Overall, we're pleased with the 8 customers we have signed as they strengthen our strategic partnerships. We expect these relationships to last for many years and to enable our customers to continue building exceptional products for their end customers. Going forward, we will remain highly selective in evaluating additional NBMs. The key characteristics we look for are strategic customers that value our products, duration of around 5 years, growing volume requirements and attractive financials that enable us to invest in the business while generating a sustainable return to our shareholders. We will be patient in these evaluations. With that update, I will turn to the results for the quarter. Revenue for the fourth quarter was $8,965 million, up 51% sequentially and 372% year-over-year. Revenue came in above the guidance range of $7,750 million to $8,250 million that we provided on our prior earnings call. Sequential revenue growth came approximately 1/3 from higher volumes and 2/3 from higher pricing. Turning to our end markets. During the quarter, Datacenter revenue reached $2,977 million, up 103% sequentially. Edge revenue reached $5,432 million, up 48% sequentially. Consumer revenue was $556 million, down 32% quarter-over-quarter. We're pleased with this evolution of our portfolio and remain committed to serving all 3 end markets to maximize long-term value creation. For the full fiscal year 2026, revenue reached $20,248 million, up 175% year-over-year, with bits growth in the mid-teens, in line with our plan. By end market, for the full year, Datacenter revenue reached $5,153 million, up 437% year-over-year. Edge revenue reached $12,160 million, up 195% year-over-year, and consumer revenue was $2,935 million, up 29% year-over-year. Non-GAAP gross margin for the fourth quarter was 84.6%, up from 78.4% in the prior quarter and 26.4% in the prior year. This compares favorably to our guidance of 79% to 81%. Non-GAAP operating expenses for the fourth quarter were $484 million, representing 5.4% of revenue, down from 7.5% of revenue in the prior quarter as we generated additional operating leverage. This compares favorably to our guidance range of $480 million to $500 million. R&D represents close to 65% of our operating expenses. Non-GAAP operating margin was 79.2%, up from 70.9% in the prior quarter. Non-GAAP EPS was $39.25, up from $23.41 in the prior quarter and $0.29 in the prior year. This compares favorably to our guidance range of $30 to $33. We closed the quarter with 157 million diluted shares outstanding. Key GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliation items include a gain of $807 million from our investment in Nanya and $67 million in stock-based compensation expense. We also recognized a tax benefit of $175 million from higher stock prices related to divested employee equity, which was offset by $170 million of taxes recognized on the gain from Nanya. During the quarter, we repurchased 2,836,000 shares of our common stock for $4.5 billion. Moving on to free cash flow. During the quarter, cash flow from operations came in at $7,126 million, partially offset by $153 million from net cash capital spending. Gross capital expenditures totaled $562 million, representing 6.3% of revenue. We generated $5,035 million in adjusted free cash flow, which represents 56% margin. This excludes $1,938 million in NBM prepayments and deposits, which are included in cash flow from operations. We closed the quarter with $4,762 million in cash and cash equivalents on our balance sheet. With that, let's move on to guidance. We expect the NAND market to continue growing at an accelerated pace, supported by AI inference as a tailwind. We estimate the NAND market will exceed $300 billion in revenue in calendar year 2026, up 3x year-over-year. Looking further ahead, we estimate that the NAND market will approach $500 billion in revenue in calendar year 2027. Within this time frame, we expect Datacenter share of total TAM to expand from approximately 30% in calendar year 2025 to approximately 50% in calendar year 2026 and to continue outpacing the market in 2027. Demand from our customers is growing faster than our supply. We, therefore, expect bits to remain on allocation beyond calendar year 2027. For the first quarter of fiscal year 2027, we expect revenue between $10.3 billion and $10.8 billion with sequential growth driven by both bit growth and higher pricing. We expect non-GAAP gross margins between 83% and 85%. We expect non-GAAP operating expenses between $520 million and $540 million as we continue to invest in innovation and R&D and have higher expenses related to taxes on employee stock compensation. We expect first quarter non-GAAP EPS between $44 and $46, assuming 155 million fully diluted shares. Here is some additional perspective for modeling purposes. Consistent with our long-term objective of growing supply mid- to high teens, our capital spending will increase year-over-year, primarily as we ramp BiCS 8 and BiCS 10, yet our investment relative to revenue will come down to approximately 6% for the full year. We plan to operate at higher inventory days, consistent with current levels to support our NBMs and account for higher component costs. The higher inventory levels reduce sellable bits to mid-teens for the full year fiscal year 2027. Moving on to capital allocation. Our priority remains to invest in the business to support long-term growth and durability. We will continue returning cash to shareholders. Sandisk's Board of Directors has authorized an additional $14 billion share repurchase program, bringing our total remaining authorization to $15.5 billion. We look forward to seeing many of you at our Investor Day in New York next week, where we plan to review the business in greater detail. We're encouraged by the progress made and remain committed to creating value for customers and shareholders. With that, let me turn the call back to David.

Thank you, Luis. In summary, fiscal year 2026 was the year Sandisk redefined what this franchise can be. We delivered record financial results, established Datacenter as a major pillar of growth, secured our manufacturing and supply base through the next decade and fundamentally restructured how we transact with our largest customers. The value of our technology built on decades of R&D and tens of billions of dollars of cumulative investment is increasingly being reflected in our financial results. As we enter fiscal year 2027, we do so with a balanced, well-structured portfolio spanning Datacenter, Edge and consumer, one that has served customers across every part of the storage market for decades and gives us flexibility to move wherever demand grows next. We have industry-leading NAND technology across TLC and QLC with a road map of continued innovation extending our leadership. And we are investing beyond traditional NAND and emerging technologies like high-bandwidth flash that carry the potential to change the AI memory storage hierarchy entirely. Combined with our NBMs, a net cash balance sheet and an active capital return program, the result is a durable growth model, a valuable franchise and a business built to generate substantial increasing cash flow. We're proud of what the team accomplished this year and believe we are still in the early innings of this opportunity. With that, Ivan, let's open it up for questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question today comes from Ben Reitzes with Melius Research.

I wanted to ask maybe 2 things. Last quarter, you talked about the NBMs were being signed in this 80% margin range. I know there's a lot of puts and takes with regard to pricing. I was wondering if you can talk about whether it's in that ballpark or if it's kind of trending actually more towards the guidance for the next quarter. I would think it's more in the 80 ballpark. And then I have -- my follow-up is with regard to buybacks. If you -- if we just round up to $5 billion per quarter, I know the authorization isn't this big. But if you commit to buying $5 billion a quarter, that's -- and you do that over the next 4 quarters, that's about 10% of your market cap. I mean, is that the kind of buyback magnitude we should be thinking of? Or is it too early to kind of call the pace?

Let me take the second one and then Luis can take the first one. So we plan to be -- we're walking into the buyback program. Our second authorization now, you saw we were -- we had a $6 billion authorization. We executed $4.5 billion in the first quarter of that. Now we've reauthorized another $14 billion. We expect to be very consistent in our execution of this program. We have a lot of confidence in the cash generation of the portfolio. Ben, to your first question and Luis will talk about the margins. But we spent a lot of time over the last 2 or 3 quarters really working very, very deeply with our largest customers on committing demand over -- we have over 4 years of visibility now. So we feel very good about where the franchise is. And I'll just speak personally as somebody that's been managing this franchise since March of 2020. I am thrilled to be at this point where we're recognizing the true value of this franchise and really ramping up the shareholder returns. But Luis can talk about the margin.

Yes. Ben, we -- not to pick a specific number, but we do expect to be around 80% for the new business models. As you know, there is some upside as prices continue to go up, we'll capture some of that upside as well. So -- but we feel very good about the work we've done. We'll talk about more about the NBMs, I'm sure, but you've seen they are not a lot. They are really meaningful deals that we did with 8 very strategic customers of ours. So we feel very good about that.

The next question comes from Mark Newman with Bernstein.

For your Q4, I don't think you've given -- obviously, Q4 strong results. I don't think you've given the breakdown yet on the volume growth. You've given some numbers for the year. So we've got some pretty good estimate. But I wonder if you could give some clarity on what's in there for Q4 for volume and also in the Q1 guide, particularly for the Q1 guide, it seems a bit lighter compared to expectations. Share price has been down a bit last time I checked in the post market. I just wondered if that is volume related or if that is because the locking in of pricing and so less price upside or perhaps a bit of both? Or is it a bit of conservatism? I really appreciate it.

Yes. So on Q4, Mark, what we mentioned is that about 1/3 of the growth came from incremental bits and 2/3 came from pricing. So you have that split there. And obviously, as you compare us versus others, there is a different timing on when price increases were taken. So you have to look at things over several quarters to really understand where we are because, as you know, we took significant pricing in the prior quarter. If you look at Q1, we expect both -- the growth to come from both bit growth and modest price increases. So we expect both of them to be contributing to our revenue growth.

The next question comes from David Gibson with MST.

Two questions. I was just wondering if NVIDIA's context memory, CMX standard and their plans for Storage-Next opportunities for you with products to come? And then the second, you announced the other day the global standard with SK Hynix for HBF. Just wondering how far out are we talking about for samples of such a product? Are we 1, 2, 3 years away? That's my question.

So David, sure. So look, there's a ton of innovation going on right now in inference memory architectures, which we think is fantastic, very healthy. There's a lot of different ideas. We're going to dive into this a little deeper next week at our Analyst Day, where we'll actually go into how we think about the problem and kind of how you dimensionalize it. But yes, all these are opportunities for us. We think, especially inference is a memory bound problem. Storage is extraordinarily important to the equation. We showed some stuff in our FMS keynote just a couple of hours ago about how when you use HBF, how we simulate performance and maybe break through some bottlenecks. So we think there's an enormous amount of innovation happening. As we scale inference, we think it provides an enormous opportunity. The biggest -- the way we're thinking about this is staying very close to our customers because they're going to be the ones that define what the architecture is in the future. I mean all of us as suppliers will provide a lot of good ideas to that. We'll work with them closely on which ones are going to be the predominant ones for what they're optimizing for. And these are really where our NBMs. We think they're extremely important in that we have -- we have NBMs with several of the largest hyperscalers in the world. They've given us forecast years into the future that include quarter-by-quarter, month-by-month mix. So we know very clearly what products they're going to deploy and the intensity that they're going to deploy them in. And it keeps us very close to the conversation as their deployment architecture changes. It lets us reflect that in our road map appropriately. So there's a lot of good ideas out there, a lot of flashing green light for innovation. We think -- we know we're a super innovative company, and we think that provides nothing but opportunity. Now on your second question, HBF is something that we announced almost 1.5 years ago now. It was very much targeted at this whole idea that inference was going to require a different storage and memory architecture. We feel very good about where that product is at. We'll tell you a little more about where we're at specifically next week, but we feel very good about deep conversations with customers. This week, you saw additions to our Advisory Board. At FMS, you saw some very significant customers talking about the technology and how they could use it. So we'll have more to say as we progress with technology on actually shipping and release dates and all of that. But from where we were 1.5 years ago, this was an idea and a lot of research and some work that we thought it was a great idea to where we are now. We've come an enormous distance, and we'll talk more about that next week.

The next question comes from Jim Schneider with Goldman Sachs.

When you think about the composition of NBMs you've already signed and the ones you may intend to sign, how are you thinking about the mix of desired customers you'd like to see across Edge, hyperscalers, AI Datacenters and so forth? And maybe can you talk about whether you're pursuing additional agreements with large hyperscalers beyond the ones you've already signed?

Yes. Jim, we're open to signing deals with companies that really meet the criteria that we talked, right? One is they need to be customers that are highly strategic that they really value our products, and they are creating amazing products with those. We want customers that are looking at several years, ideally 5 years of agreements with growth, year-over-year growth. That's very important because every year, we're producing more bits as we introduce new nodes. So we want customers that grow with us. And we want attractive financials. So those -- that's the criteria, but we're not close to any segment. As I mentioned, we signed deals with customers across Datacenter and Edge, and we feel great about that. In terms of the hyperscalers, I'm talking about specific agreements. I think it's not in our interest to be disclosing specifics about contracts, but we feel great about each of them. They are, as David said, long-term relationships that are getting into a level of details that we've never had before from a technology, from a commercial point of view. And we believe that these relationships will last many, many years.

So Jim, just a few more comments on that from my perspective. So first of all, we really started this journey just 2-plus quarters ago. Here we are with a little bit more than 50% of our supply for fiscal year '27, which we're a month in now, is already committed. We understand the financials. We understand exactly where it's going. We already have POs for the year from those customers. In FY '28, that steps up to 2/3 -- roughly 2/3 of our supply is already committed. We understand what the mix is. We understand what the economics are. So we feel like we've just made incredible progress here on taking a year ago, we were talking about visibility in this business of 3 months. And now we're talking over 4 years of committed financials and understanding the mix and working with, as Luis said, some of the most enviable companies in the world. So we feel really good about where this is at. And we'll continue to talk to customers. I think one of the most interesting dynamics is some of our biggest customers are already coming back and wanting more, right, from just what they thought they needed 3 months ago. It's a very, very robust demand environment, especially in the Datacenter. So we feel good about where we're at. But we're getting a lot of the portfolio spoken for at this point, and we'll be selective from here about how we add to it. But we're definitely still in deep conversations with additional customers.

And then could you maybe address capital allocation at a somewhat more holistic level? I mean it's great to see the buybacks you've already executed in terms of the authorization. But how should we be thinking about your ability to do sort of more programmatic buybacks on sort of an ongoing basis? And maybe talk about the idea of a dividend if it's -- if you've considered that?

Yes. So our priorities continue to be the same as what we've talked since day 1, which is to first continue to invest in the business -- and although that's a generic statement, you've seen us do that, right, through our OpEx, through our CapEx, through investments in Nanya, through our JV expansion. So we continue to make our company more robust and more durable over time in any scenario. So we'll continue to do that, and I've talked about some of the numbers, some of the requirements to continue to invest in the business. Priority #2 that we've talked, which is frankly completed, was to get a good cash balance, which we've done and to get rid of our TLB, which is also done. So that priority #2, we feel very good of where we are. And then really, our role as a company is to return cash to our shareholders. We believe that at this point in time, and things may change as time goes on, we believe that the best way to do it is to return cash to investors via share buybacks. So we started that journey very quickly in last quarter, and we'll continue that journey, and we'll keep you updated. But that's the form we believe it's better for our shareholders, more tax efficient and probably the right thing for us to do at this point in time.

The next question comes from C.J. Muse with Cantor.

I guess 2 questions. First, with pricing up modestly sequentially, can you help me understand why gross margins are guided lower? And then bigger picture, the challenge for semi investors is moving less of a focus on margin and EPS revisions, but rather buying into the durability of this cycle. So can you focus on why you're so confident in the securities of NBMs and that today's supply is limited and that will drive a durable and elongated cycle?

Yes. So I'll start and Luis can add on. C.J., I think you answered your first question with your second question, which is we're focused on multiple things here, not just one. Durability is a big piece of it. We want to get a fair return for our products. I think mid-80s gross margin, I would characterize as a fair return. And then we want to increase visibility and durability of the franchise, right? We want to get this kind of boom and bust out of it. It doesn't work for anybody. In '23, we are having very different earnings calls than we're having now. And we want to get more consistent and deeper relationships with our customers so we can plan better and they can plan better. And so we're executing what we said we were going to do last quarter. We're committing supply to customers that are willing to commit for years in advance at the economics we guided to last quarter, which Ben said earlier. We guided to about 80% gross margin. And then the rest of the portfolio floats. And then there's all kinds of things that happen in their mix and all different kinds of things influence it. It's a fairly complicated business. So -- when you put that on top of half the supply is committed for FY '27, you get to kind of the numbers we're talking about, which we're thrilled with, quite frankly, because the amount of the operating leverage, operating profit and free cash flow that drives is very substantial. And again, we'll go into why that's the case a little more next week. So why do we have conviction that these customers are going to hang in there with us? There's lots of reasons for that. Number one is we put a contractual structure in place where we align our incentives. They're making financial commitments to us that if they don't follow through on their commitments that I think $16.5 billion in aggregate would flow to us on our balance sheet. We don't ever expect to see that money, quite frankly. It's just to align interest. But if some black swan event happens, companies have to do what's in their interest and maybe something happens. But more importantly, we're dealing at a very different level with our customers than we were a year ago. I mean, we are literally talking to the CFOs, the CEOs of the largest companies in the world. This used to be, quite frankly, just a supply chain conversation every quarter in a price negotiation 7x24. The business has turned into a highly strategic. Sandisk has incredible products that allow them, our customers to build incredible infrastructure to serve the world with things like inference, which is -- we're just getting started on scaling. So it's -- as somebody that's been in the technology industry for 35 or 40 years now at, quite frankly, a very high level, the level of customer engagement we have is as high as any technology franchise I've ever been a part of. It's incredible. And so we believe that we have pivoted to a highly strategic supplier to our customers. Their demand continues to grow. I think one of the more interesting things, again, I think I said it before, we already have customers coming back for the second round of NBMs a quarter in. And so that gives us an enormous amount of conviction that this franchise is set up for the long term. We have over 4 years of visibility now at economics which are extremely attractive. And we're really looking forward to executing this business over the next several years.

The next question comes from Joe Moore with Morgan Stanley.

You talked a little bit about gross CapEx coming up a little for the BiCS 8 and BiCS 10 transitions. Can you just talk about how you think about that and the fact that the guys who also make DRAM seem to be focused more there. Any thought of spending more to accelerate those technology transitions? Or just how should we think about your decision-making process on CapEx?

Yes. So Joe, basically, we continue to be committed to grow bits mid- to high teens, right? And we're spending to that level. The reason why our dollar increases from 1 year to another is because obviously, as you transition from one node to another, you will first take the easiest, right, or the cheapest transitions and then you would go on and do the more expensive ones, particularly when we had underutilized the fabs in the prior year, we have some tools that could be reused, and we were in a good place on that spending. So we're very good. We continue to execute the plan that we had. We believe that's the right plan to do it that allows us to provide the bit growth that we believe is sustainable in the market. And we haven't changed that position. Now this year, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, it will be a little bit lower. I mentioned mid-teens as we continue to build capabilities for the new business models. We need to build a little bit of inventory just to make sure that we're always delivering on time. So that mid- to high teens, which is our ongoing number, will be a little bit lower for 2027.

Okay. So if we think about a $500 billion kind of industry number for next year, do you think you would -- between the different puts and takes kind of hold segment share relative to that?

That is correct.

It's always our goal, Joe.

The next question comes from Karl Ackerman with BNP Paribas.